Was Wondering RigTalks Thoughts on This?

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ghosty999

ghosty999

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Was wondering everyone's thoughts on this?

Surely a huge majority of threads on here going back years could be "debunked"?. Or atleast proof there is a bit of snake-oil nuances going in valve debates in 2020?

TL;DR ... he changes pre-amp and power tubes in a 5150 on one setup. Takes both of the recordings, and flips the polarity so they essentially cancel each other out proving the tone is identical. Then does this with a Fender 1959 Pro and has the same results. Clean and Dirty.


 
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my take is the slight difference, if any, probably isnt enough to make any difference in a mix. however, if you just cant handle having brand X in your amp and brand Y is what you need to live out your rock and roll fantasy, by golly fucking go for it.
 
Often when people post clips showing how two things sound the same...when I know damn well they don't...I think that they have illustrated how clips can be deceiving and that you can make a so-so tone sound great with the right touch...or a stellar tone sound shit without it.

It does make you go "Hmmmmm" but then you think...no wait I tested that. I heard it with my own ears.
 
I've done this test with a 1983 JCM800 and a re-amp setup. The cab and mics were in an iso booth, and the 800 was in the control room.
We ran the same take through a re-amp box into the 800, with the only variable being the tubes.
We ran a series with a whole range of pre amp tubes, and a series with a variety of EL34 power tubes.
When we were done, we sat in the control room and muted and un-muted the various tracks to A/B them.
The results in this video are not consistent with the results of my testing.
YMMV
Edit: I've only done this the one time with 12ax7's, but I've done this a bunch of times with different amps and power tubes.
The ones that I remember off the top of my head are a Block Letter 5150 shooting out various 6L6's, a Bogner XTC 101B testing a couple different EL34's vs JJ KT77's and a Twin Jet comparing KT88's to 6550's.
I'm not sure what this guy's angle is, but he's full of shit. :no:
 
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to me its like speaker break in... its a good excuse when you arent thrilled with your new purchase. "oh just wait till the speakers break in". "oh ill just roll some magic tubes and unlock the tone"... a week later the ol' "such an amazing piece of gear i WILL own again but gotta let this go cause i need cash.. but ill trade for.." thread
 
I know in my plexi and 800 style amps different tubes sound different. I always get a more saturated tone from jjs as opposed to a “harder” sound from Sovteks. I like them both, but they definitely sound different to me,
 
I think that dude is a huge creeper pedo that I wouldn't let my kids alone with... WEIRDO!

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That aside, I think tubes do make a difference. Maybe not everyone hears the sound the same, but I can hear and often times feel a difference when playing. YMMV.
 
They certainly make a difference, but I’ve found tube to be to highest cost for the amount of change. For the price of a Mullard you can buy a speaker. If your not into high gain, I can recommend pics that make a huge change.
 
scottosan said:
They certainly make a difference, but I’ve found tube to be to highest cost for the amount of change. For the price of a Mullard you can buy a speaker. If your not into high gain, I can recommend pics that make a huge change.
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Pretty much how I feel. I have a collection of tubes I use to swap out to find what I like in an amp, and then buy from what I find from there. Kind of like a tube library of known working tubes of different varieties. It’s taken decades to get a small collection and agree - it’s only for final minute changes once the overall amp and cab combination has been dialed in.
 
ghosty999 said:
Was wondering everyone's thoughts on this?

Surely a huge majority of threads on here going back years could be "debunked"?. Or atleast proof there is a bit of snake-oil nuances going in valve debates in 2020?

TL;DR ... he changes pre-amp and power tubes in a 5150 on one setup. Takes both of the recordings, and flips the polarity so they essentially cancel each other out proving the tone is identical. Then does this with a Fender 1959 Pro and has the same results. Clean and Dirty.


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We just did this :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/threads/will-changing-your-tubes-change-the-sound-of-your-amp.214196/
But yeah, I can hear and feel differences.
 
I mean, wouldn't the variances in manufacturing alone be enough to cause discernable differences? And I'm talking within the same brand/spec.

Are you saying you don't hear a difference and therefore asking those that do to post up? :D

*Fusebrain said in that other thread that he did just that I believe.
*Do I believe it can often be negligible? Yes.
*Do I believe there is plenty of snake oil and placebo affect out there? Yes.
*The microphone movement demo at 5:20 was the best part of this video and forgot to mention before.
*Yes there are lot of other things that affect the tone more (settings, speakers, etc, duh).
*I'd rather see this without the Mix and without the setup he used.

But if someone asked me why their Splawn sounds overly bright and trebly and I tell them to try some JJ's because that is what I like I see that as very valid. A 12AX7 is $15. Forgetting about the NOS discussion for a minute. Point being we go through tubes a lot faster than we go through cabs and microphones. They are almost like the disposables market. Like razer blades and batteries. :dunno:

PS: And I don't wait for my amp to cool down, I use gloves.
 
They are different to my ears, at the end of the day that's what matters to me.

I have a nice NOS collection around but I would not pay current prices for any of them tbh. just tubes along the way that I have gotten cheap, snagged a deal, etc.

I have my formula that I start an amp out with, and it works for me. my only favorite real clincher is that I like the Sovtek 12AX7-LPS in the phase inverter most of the time. I find that to work well for ME.

Also how could there not be a difference? there are differences in the physical construction of the tubes, granted the same concept is there but different tubes are made differently.

also to note that NOS tubes seem to last a lot longer than new production. I have vintage Fenders with the original tubes in them that I have pushed hard and abused for 10 of those years. that is another argument entirely IMO. But to me it doesn't justify the cost personally for me.
 
In his defense he is not saying there is no difference he is saying there is no 'tonal' difference. His 'null' test is compelling in that regard as it cancels out the similar tone frequencies and leaves you with the difference but to me, I can still hear something as brighter or darker or more gain or less gain so that is all I really care about anyway. I also don't care for his 'angry' tone no pun intended. All I know is that I can put on a glove and swap preamp tubes in my Splawn (and other amps for that matter) while the amp is turned on and guitar strapped on and it takes all but 5 seconds to swap a tube in and out.
 
ghosty999 said:
Anyone who has posted that they hear a difference with different tubes... would you be willing to run a looper into a set up, swap the tubes and send both recordings?

Would be good to debunk this with evidence rather than conjecture!
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Sure. I could record, then swap in a dead tube. I guarantee there will be a sound difference.
 
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