WDW: Setting The Wet Level

[dfrattaroli]

A week or so ago I got my WDW rig running for the first time. Axe FX/Egnater M4 into a VHT 2/50/2 and Bogner OS 2x12 (dry) and Carvin DCM150 and CAA 1x12 cubes (wet).

Well, I programmed a simple preset for the M4 and one for the Axe where I just had a module/amp sim and some delay.

I found it distracting to play. It "felt" like the delay repeats were another player in the room playing over me. I dropped the output to the wet amp a bit but then it seemed that things like Chorus were not pronounced enough.

I'm not sure I'm going to go that way. Right now I broke the gear back down into 2 separate rigs: 1) Stereo, Axe, Carvin and two cubes and 2) Mono M4, VHT Bogner and my DD-20 for delay.

I even think I prefer the way these components sound separately.

Anyway, I was just curious if anyone else felt the same about the WDW scenario.

Thanks.

Dave

 

[Gainzilla]

A week or so ago I got my WDW rig running for the first time. Axe FX/Egnater M4 into a VHT 2/50/2 and Bogner OS 2x12 (dry) and Carvin DCM150 and CAA 1x12 cubes (wet).

Well, I programmed a simple preset for the M4 and one for the Axe where I just had a module/amp sim and some delay.

I found it distracting to play. It "felt" like the delay repeats were another player in the room playing over me. I dropped the output to the wet amp a bit but then it seemed that things like Chorus were not pronounced enough.

I'm not sure I'm going to go that way. Right now I broke the gear back down into 2 separate rigs: 1) Stereo, Axe, Carvin and two cubes and 2) Mono M4, VHT Bogner and my DD-20 for delay.

I even think I prefer the way these components sound separately.

Anyway, I was just curious if anyone else felt the same about the WDW scenario.

Thanks.

Dave

I love the concept but the practicality of it doesnt interest me at all Dave, too many issues and variables, for me at least...

 

[dfrattaroli]

I love the concept but the practicality of it doesnt interest me at all Dave, too many issues and variables, for me at least...

I'm starting to feel that way too. I don't want to bail on it just yet but I do tend to go with what my gut tells me. I know Ralph feels the same way as you do with regard to WDW. Said he prefers everything to be wet. Now I'm not sure we were talking about rigs.

If I don't go back to the WDW, I likely won't keep 2 rigs. And looking at the two options I have, it's tough to decided which to keep. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up with a single head, 2x12 and some pedals. Maybe I'd keep the Axe and Carvin in a small rack for jamming/recording.

Dave

 

[dfrattaroli]

Where are the cabinets located in relation to each other? Do you have "ducking" available on the delay? I always have the dry tone a little bit louder than the wet tone and try to keep the cabinets as close as possible.

The cabs were right next to each other: w-d-w. I was using the Axe Fx delay and it does have ducking. Although I doubt I was using it. What does ducking bring to the table?

Dave

 

[Gainfreak]

I love the concept but the practicality of it doesnt interest me at all Dave, too many issues and variables, for me at least...

I'm starting to feel that way too. I don't want to bail on it just yet but I do tend to go with what my gut tells me. I know Ralph feels the same way as you do with regard to WDW. Said he prefers everything to be wet. Now I'm not sure we were talking about rigs.

If I don't go back to the WDW, I likely won't keep 2 rigs. And looking at the two options I have, it's tough to decided which to keep. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up with a single head, 2x12 and some pedals. Maybe I'd keep the Axe and Carvin in a small rack for jamming/recording.

Dave

Ive used a slave rig for many years live and I ditched the dry cab for 2 reasons. One reason was because after playing through the rig I prefered the all wet sound and the other was because it's a huge PITA lugging the extra cab around fro the dry lol. Even though I can still use the dry cab in my condo's w/w rig, I still ditch it because I;ve come to terms with the fact that I don't like the dry sound much lol

 

[Gainzilla]

I love the concept but the practicality of it doesnt interest me at all Dave, too many issues and variables, for me at least...

I'm starting to feel that way too. I don't want to bail on it just yet but I do tend to go with what my gut tells me. I know Ralph feels the same way as you do with regard to WDW. Said he prefers everything to be wet. Now I'm not sure we were talking about rigs.

If I don't go back to the WDW, I likely won't keep 2 rigs. And looking at the two options I have, it's tough to decided which to keep. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up with a single head, 2x12 and some pedals. Maybe I'd keep the Axe and Carvin in a small rack for jamming/recording.

Dave

I have my delays ducked to a degree so the wetness isnt overwhelming. For me, the 2 rig solution is better because it gives you the best of both worlds IMO...

 

[Anonymous]

I'm just gonna throw in and say I love having a dry cab in my w/d/w setup. I basically just want to hear the amp - the stereo delay and micropitchsift (+/- 9 cents) in the wet stereo cab I keep relatively low in the mix with the dry sound. All I want from the wet stereo cab is a little thickening of the overal sound - "icing on the cake" if you will. Just enough stereo wet that I'd notice it if I turned the power amp off, but not enough that it is overwhelming the dry sound...

Steve

 

[1big1]

i'm running into some of the same issues you're having. i've been messing around with a rocktron pro gap. my configuration isn't the same as yours because the gear i'm using is different. however when i use the wet the chorus and flange almost disappear and i've got a ground loop between amps. the ground loop i can fix.. no problem.
when i got this thing i thought i could make it easy to use. i think i'm overthinking my configuration and need to go back and find a simple solution.
i have to invoke the 2% rule. i don't have to be the smartest guy on the planet. i just have to be 2% smarter than the inanimate object i'm working on.

 

[Shark Diver]

I'm just gonna throw in and say I love having a dry cab in my w/d/w setup. I basically just want to hear the amp - the stereo delay and micropitchsift (+/- 9 cents) in the wet stereo cab I keep relatively low in the mix with the dry sound. All I want from the wet stereo cab is a little thickening of the overal sound - "icing on the cake" if you will. Just enough stereo wet that I'd notice it if I turned the power amp off, but not enough that it is overwhelming the dry sound...

Steve

Exactly. It's amazing how low the wet volume really is in a good W/D/W rig.

 

[jasonP]

What I've found works well for me is running the wet and dry cabinets the same volume or close to then turning the effects mix levels where I like them the most. That way I get a blend of wet cabs and dry sound together and find that sounds big. I didn't like using the effects at 100 percent and running the wet cabs lower then the dry speaker sound as I thought the delays, chorus and reverb did not sound as nice and blend as well.

So I've found letting alot of dry sound come through the wet cabs, maybe only 30 percent actual effect mix. I still like using the dry cab because of the different power section voicings and speakers add to the sound. All IMO!

 

[dfrattaroli]

So I've found letting alot of dry sound come through the wet cabs, maybe only 30 percent actual effect mix. I still like using the dry cab because of the different power section voicings and speakers add to the sound. All IMO!

I've tried that and that was better for sure. I guess I'm learning that all this stuff is really intriguing to me "on paper". I love reading about it and considering all the potential. But in practice, I always prefer flicking a switch, letting the tubes warm up and playing. I guess it's because I'm an old fart (43). My kids could probably get my rig working faster than I can.

Dave

 

[1big1]

i wound up going back to just plugging into the front of the preamp.. running the full range out into the low gain input on my carvin x 60 and ran the delay effects back through the amp loop. put the boost pedals in front of the pre amp. viola! i could gig with that.
i've always thought about running wdw and may do that at some point in the future.. but i want a rig i can use live without all the tap dancing.. wiring harness configuring and level balancing.
a little wet can go a long way in filling out the sound. that part is true. keep the wet gain and volume down and try to run the wet as clean as you can. schon used a cybertwin with a half open back marshall cab for his delays only when he was running the 800zw/vh-4 rig a few years back. it sounded amazing.

 

[* velcro-fly *]

i have to invoke the 2% rule. i don't have to be the smartest guy on the planet. i just have to be 2% smarter than the inanimate object i'm working on.

Words to live by

 

[1big1]

there have been times when that hasn't worked out too well for me.

 

[jasonP]

So I've found letting alot of dry sound come through the wet cabs, maybe only 30 percent actual effect mix. I still like using the dry cab because of the different power section voicings and speakers add to the sound. All IMO!

I've tried that and that was better for sure. I guess I'm learning that all this stuff is really intriguing to me "on paper". I love reading about it and considering all the potential. But in practice, I always prefer flicking a switch, letting the tubes warm up and playing. I guess it's because I'm an old fart (43). My kids could probably get my rig working faster than I can.

Dave

I think there is may ways to go about doing this type of setup and basically it comes down to what you like best. If the sound is working for you then let r buck.

 

[mentoneman]

my advice would be start with just a stereo rig for a night of practice, and then try just a wet/dry rig the next night to really get a handle on the different vibes.

personally, for my experiences with it, i tend to think the van halen brown sound seems more authentic as a wet/dry setup.

my first foray into w/d/w was less than thrilling..out of phase, washy, noisy mess.

but done right, it's a gigantic sound that really captivates the ears.

 

[1big1]

the delay.. chorus.. flange unit i'm using has an output labeled invert mix which i ran to my yamaha g100 just for fun. if i don't engage the amp loop a delay signal is sent to just the yamaha.. so i can make it a wet dry rig. i can turn that off with a regular quarter inch jack switch. how practical that is i'm not sure. i suppose there might be applications where you might use something like that.. especially in a studio environment. it just takes some getting used to your delay coming from another source.

 

[dfrattaroli]

my first foray into w/d/w was less than thrilling..out of phase, washy, noisy mess.

I don't think I had phasing issues but what's the best way to test that?

Thanks.

Dave

 

[1big1]

you need to look at the speakers while you are playing and determine if one set of speakers is pushing and the other is pulling. if one cab pushes the speakers out and the other moves in you are out of phase.