We should all have neighbors like this

[timbo]

Bruthas should have been in church! It's plain and simple, ya don't steal someones shit, rape a mans wife or abuse someones kids. Dumb fuks got what they deserved in my book. Problem is today is nobody gets punished. And if Hitlerillary gets elected you might as well kiss your 2nd amendment rights goodbye.

 

[SeaDog]

I think these guys were definately showing what they had to offer society. The shooter might even be saving lives since statistically these guys would eventually move to more violent crimes and/or hurt someone. In the days gone by the shooter wouldn't even be questioned for his actions. I think he should get a medal.

 

['63-Strat]

When you kill a man you take away all he ever was or will be. Seems a bit brutal just for B & E. Does the punishment really fit the crime?

Agreed. I don't support the death penalty either, fwiw. This wasn't the guy's home either, how is this any different than vigilante justice? What if this was your kids that had only some "minor scrapes with the law" prior to this and someone decided to play the hero? In this case they were burglarizing the neighbour's home, but what if this was domestic related? etc. Burglary is no joke, but its not a capitol offense, either. Police have the right to use deadly force, fine. Defending your own home (in Texas), well that's the law, so be it. But your neighbour? Seems like a stretch to me, and frankly I'm sure lots of you have stolen more from the government in unpaid taxes than these two morons. Not to mention downloading music/movies/software etc. Just doesn't seem worth their deaths IMO.

 

[nbarts]

When you kill a man you take away all he ever was or will be. Seems a bit brutal just for B & E. Does the punishment really fit the crime?

Perfectly, IMO. That was most definitely not the first & not the last time. There is only one way for justice these days & the man took care of it very well. If they let it for cops nothing would have happened. The sad part is that one decent person may end up in jail for no reason. I totally respect that guy!

 

[Odin]

When you kill a man you take away all he ever was or will be. Seems a bit brutal just for B & E. Does the punishment really fit the crime?

Agreed. I don't support the death penalty either, fwiw. This wasn't the guy's home either, how is this any different than vigilante justice? What if this was your kids that had only some "minor scrapes with the law" prior to this and someone decided to play the hero? In this case they were burglarizing the neighbour's home, but what if this was domestic related? etc. Burglary is no joke, but its not a capitol offense, either. Police have the right to use deadly force, fine. Defending your own home (in Texas), well that's the law, so be it. But your neighbour? Seems like a stretch to me, and frankly I'm sure lots of you have stolen more from the government in unpaid taxes than these two morons. Not to mention downloading music/movies/software etc. Just doesn't seem worth their deaths IMO.

You and I agree that stealing someone else's property is not worth our lives, and we choose not to break into strangers' houses and steal.

But the criminals in this case apparently did not feel the way that we feel, because they decided to break into a stranger's house and steal from him. They knew the risks and as a part of their chosen profession were not opposed to the risk because apparently they felt the reward was worth the risk.

They were wrong, BTW.

 

[SeaDog]

When you kill a man you take away all he ever was or will be. Seems a bit brutal just for B & E. Does the punishment really fit the crime?

Agreed. I don't support the death penalty either, fwiw. This wasn't the guy's home either, how is this any different than vigilante justice? What if this was your kids that had only some "minor scrapes with the law" prior to this and someone decided to play the hero? In this case they were burglarizing the neighbour's home, but what if this was domestic related? etc. Burglary is no joke, but its not a capitol offense, either. Police have the right to use deadly force, fine. Defending your own home (in Texas), well that's the law, so be it. But your neighbour? Seems like a stretch to me, and frankly I'm sure lots of you have stolen more from the government in unpaid taxes than these two morons. Not to mention downloading music/movies/software etc. Just doesn't seem worth their deaths IMO.

Police have no more right to use deadly force than anyone else, if they are threatened with bodily harm (that doesn't even make sense). If these were kids with minor scrapes with the law then they probably should have thrown up their hands and obeyed his commands since he was carry a shotgun. My understanding is that they came at him in a threatening manner after he told them he would use deadly force. If this is true, then I don't think your position holds much water. If they had given up, they most likely would have been held until police arrived without incident. I do agree with you that it wasn't worth their death, but I think that was much more in their control than you're giving them credit for. When I take the emotions of two wasted lives out of it, I come to the conclusion that these guys had no one to blame but themselves.
By the way, I certainly pay all of my taxes and if someone held a gun on me for downloading an MP3 off the Internet, I wouldn't approach them in a hostile manner. Just my two cents.

 

['63-Strat]

When you kill a man you take away all he ever was or will be. Seems a bit brutal just for B & E. Does the punishment really fit the crime?

Agreed. I don't support the death penalty either, fwiw. This wasn't the guy's home either, how is this any different than vigilante justice? What if this was your kids that had only some "minor scrapes with the law" prior to this and someone decided to play the hero? In this case they were burglarizing the neighbour's home, but what if this was domestic related? etc. Burglary is no joke, but its not a capitol offense, either. Police have the right to use deadly force, fine. Defending your own home (in Texas), well that's the law, so be it. But your neighbour? Seems like a stretch to me, and frankly I'm sure lots of you have stolen more from the government in unpaid taxes than these two morons. Not to mention downloading music/movies/software etc. Just doesn't seem worth their deaths IMO.

Police have no more right to use deadly force than anyone else, if they are threatened with bodily harm (that doesn't even make sense). If these were kids with minor scrapes with the law then they probably should have thrown up their hands and obeyed his commands since he was carry a shotgun. My understanding is that they came at him in a threatening manner after he told them he would use deadly force. If this is true, then I don't think your position holds much water. If they had given up, they most likely would have been held until police arrived without incident. I do agree with you that it wasn't worth their death, but I think that was much more in their control than you're giving them credit for. When I take the emotions of two wasted lives out of it, I come to the conclusion that these guys had no one to blame but themselves.
By the way, I certainly pay all of my taxes and if someone held a gun on me for downloading an MP3 off the Internet, I wouldn't approach them in a hostile manner. Just my two cents.

Unfortunately I don't know a couple of key things: a) how close were these houses together, 15ft, 200ft? b) did these guys *actually* approach Horn in a threatening manner, obviously he *says* they did, but he also said he was going to kill them before leaving his house. I was only quoting the video report which described the guys as having minor scrapes with the law prior to this burglary, fyi. I really think these deaths were unnecessary, obviously many of you disagree. From the phone transcript it sounds like the police were practically on the scene as he shot them and that he wanted to get out there before the police arrived. If that's the case, I'd say that's senseless killing. I'm *not* disputing burglary being a despicable crime, it is. I just think that vigilante justice is not the answer and that the punishment should fit the crime. One could force one's way into many criminal situations and claim that their life was threatened and thus justified the use of lethal force. That's still vigilante justice any way you slice it IMO and not a good thing.

 

[Code001]

For those arguing about the fact that it wasn't his home - If you saw someone being robbed in an alley, do you just pass by and say, "Well... I didn't know the person so it doesn't concern me," or, "Well... It's not near where I live, so why should I be concerned?"

 

['63-Strat]

For those arguing about the fact that it wasn't his home - If you saw someone being robbed in an alley, do you just pass by and say, "Well... I didn't know the person so it doesn't concern me," or, "Well... It's not near where I live, so why should I be concerned?"

afaik, there was nobody home, so a more accurate parallel would be if I saw someone breaking into a car would I shoot them? No, I would call the police, but that's just me. This whole, what if it was your mother/sister/someone thing doesn't wash because he knew there was nobody home.

 

[Code001]

For those arguing about the fact that it wasn't his home - If you saw someone being robbed in an alley, do you just pass by and say, "Well... I didn't know the person so it doesn't concern me," or, "Well... It's not near where I live, so why should I be concerned?"

afaik, there was nobody home, so a more accurate parallel would be if I saw someone breaking into a car would I shoot them? No, I would call the police, but that's just me. This whole, what if it was your mother/sister/someone thing doesn't wash because he knew there was nobody home.

It's not "would I shoot them." It's "would I stop them." If stopping someone means possibly shooting them, then so be it. Sometimes calling the police isn't always an option depending on where you live. If you're in an area where cops respond late and have a bad track record, do you still call the police? To me, that would fall under moral irresponsibility. We don't know how the police are in his specific area.

 

[moronmountain]

When you kill a man you take away all he ever was or will be. Seems a bit brutal just for B & E. Does the punishment really fit the crime?

OK Clint Eastwood. I don't care if the punishment fits the crime. If we all were allowed to defend our property this way, there'd be very little property crimes. Screw those 2 crackheads. More oxygen for the rest of us with them gone.

 

[moronmountain]

But it wasn't his home he was defending. Wonder how the judge will see it.

Who cares. It deffinately wasn't the home of the 2 burglars. If you go into someone's house, you're taking a risk of getting hurt or killed. I'd love to have a neighbor like him.

 

[moronmountain]

For those arguing about the fact that it wasn't his home - If you saw someone being robbed in an alley, do you just pass by and say, "Well... I didn't know the person so it doesn't concern me," or, "Well... It's not near where I live, so why should I be concerned?"

afaik, there was nobody home,

But there coulda been as well. As far as you could've known, there coulda been someone inside getting taped up, killed, or raped. Screw those two punks. I'm sick of everyone standing by and ignoring "small" things. This is why we have so much gang violence in this country.

 

[philb]

Well, it's a tragic case for sure regardless of who is right or wrong.

 

['63-Strat]

Ok, I'm saying it. I know lots of you guys consider yourselves Christians, how can you justify killing someone/judging them permanently for stealing and not see the hypocrisy in this? Do you really think Jesus would be cool with you killing someone over theft? I know you're all going to say "HIS LIFE WAS THREATENED!!!" and maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But it wouldn't have been if he had listened to the operator and it wouldn't have been if he wasn't so keen on stopping the burglars and/or fulfilling his desire to kill them. All this after mentioning he was aware of the revisions to the civil immunity law on the phone prior to. I just find this wrong on many levels. And frankly, I'm expecting the judge to as well, but we'll see.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

That guy is my hero.

 

[moronmountain]

Well, it's a tragic case for sure regardless of who is right or wrong.

What's tragic is that some people consider their drug habits more important than the right of people to feel safe.

 

[moronmountain]

Ok, I'm saying it. I know lots of you guys consider yourselves Christians, how can you justify killing someone/judging them permanently for stealing and not see the hypocrisy in this? Do you really think Jesus would be cool with you killing someone over theft? I know you're all going to say "HIS LIFE WAS THREATENED!!!" and maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But it wouldn't have been if he had listened to the operator and it wouldn't have been if he wasn't so keen on stopping the burglars and/or fulfilling his desire to kill them. All this after mentioning he was aware of the revisions to the civil immunity law on the phone prior to. I just find this wrong on many levels. And frankly, I'm expecting the judge to as well, but we'll see.

Well if iirc God had the Jews go to war over certain things, and people got killed as a result of it. David flat out killed Goliath. This is the same God that is Jesus' father. Jesus turned over the tables of the money changers. I don't know "Biblically" which is the right or wrong answer to be honest. I do know that when everyone in this country had a gun strapped to their hip everyone was more polite to each other. They weren't necessarily "nicer", but people thought twice before acting like idiots. The 2 guys here will probably NEVER change their ways and in the end it's 2 less losers on the face of the planet. I've been mugged by crackheads before and had gang bangers try to intimidate me. Screw all of them. I refuse to act like a victim around them. I'll say again that if everyone in our country stood up for themselves and their neighbors who may be to weak to, then this country would be a MUCH better place to live in. "Biblically" is that the way it's supposed to be? I have no idea nor I doubt anyone does, but I would love it if this country was more like it was in the 50's. FWIW I've never brought up the fact that I'm a Christian on this (or any) forum before because I don't think it's a moral issue. It's a keep my country a safe place issue. I do respect your opinion, but tossing out the "religion" card in this case is out of line IMO. I don't have anything against you however, and this won't make me think less of you.

 

['63-Strat]

Ok, I'm saying it. I know lots of you guys consider yourselves Christians, how can you justify killing someone/judging them permanently for stealing and not see the hypocrisy in this? Do you really think Jesus would be cool with you killing someone over theft? I know you're all going to say "HIS LIFE WAS THREATENED!!!" and maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But it wouldn't have been if he had listened to the operator and it wouldn't have been if he wasn't so keen on stopping the burglars and/or fulfilling his desire to kill them. All this after mentioning he was aware of the revisions to the civil immunity law on the phone prior to. I just find this wrong on many levels. And frankly, I'm expecting the judge to as well, but we'll see.

Well if iirc God had the Jews go to war over certain things, and people got killed as a result of it. David flat out killed Goliath. This is the same God that is Jesus' father. Jesus turned over the tables of the money changers. I don't know "Biblically" which is the right or wrong answer to be honest. I do know that when everyone in this country had a gun strapped to their hip everyone was more polite to each other. They weren't necessarily "nicer", but people thought twice before acting like idiots. The 2 guys here will probably NEVER change their ways and in the end it's 2 less losers on the face of the planet. I've been mugged by crackheads before and had gang bangers try to intimidate me. Screw all of them. I refuse to act like a victim around them. I'll say again that if everyone in our country stood up for themselves and their neighbors who may be to weak to, then this country would be a MUCH better place to live in. "Biblically" is that the way it's supposed to be? I have no idea nor I doubt anyone does, but I would love it if this country was more like it was in the 50's. FWIW I've never brought up the fact that I'm a Christian on this (or any) forum before because I don't think it's a moral issue. It's a keep my country a safe place issue. I do respect your opinion, but tossing out the "religion" card in this case is out of line IMO. I don't have anything against you however, and this won't make me think less of you.

I wasn't referring only to you at all, btw. But to me, the idea of killing someone over theft is a moral issue so we'll have to agree to disagree on whether beliefs come into that or not.

 

[Shawn Lutz]

Ok, I'm saying it. I know lots of you guys consider yourselves Christians, how can you justify killing someone/judging them permanently for stealing and not see the hypocrisy in this? Do you really think Jesus would be cool with you killing someone over theft? I know you're all going to say "HIS LIFE WAS THREATENED!!!" and maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But it wouldn't have been if he had listened to the operator and it wouldn't have been if he wasn't so keen on stopping the burglars and/or fulfilling his desire to kill them. All this after mentioning he was aware of the revisions to the civil immunity law on the phone prior to. I just find this wrong on many levels. And frankly, I'm expecting the judge to as well, but we'll see.

if felt theatned or feared for my families safty in any way, shape or forum I would blow them away right on the spot...........and Jesus would forgive me for it

None of us were there, we dont know exactly what happened after Mr Horn said Move and your dead. He says they came at him....medical examiner said shots were fired at a distance of about 15 ft away. We'll have to wait for the investigation process to unfold before we know for sure.