We should all have neighbors like this

[theNoseBleedKid]

Our laws don't protect us only because our laws are not enforced. Our increasingly liberal government has declared that states are not permitted to enforce federal immigration laws while also flatly refusing to enforce those same laws at the federal level. In essence, we have no laws regarding immigration.

If we enforced the laws that we have this case would not have ever happened, as both of the suspects were illegal aliens and had been previously deported and then allowed to illegally reenter the US and commit more crimes. Laws are only effective when they are enforced.

Which continually enforces my point...................

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

I would agree that this case was not clear cut, and the case was problematic. In the end, the grand jury gave the benefit of the doubt to the law abiding tax paying citizen instead of the felonious illegal aliens who threatened the citizen when caught in the middle of a crime. While the system may not be perfect I think the grand jury made the best decision they could based on the circumstances.

See this isn't so hard, we aren't unreasonable (except for copperhead). The end decision is perfectly legal (unles SCOTUS intervene or some shit!!!!!!!!!!) which is why I haven't got into a legal argument, there really isn't one. However, the morality of such a decision, well thats another story!

 

[Odin]

Our laws don't protect us only because our laws are not enforced. Our increasingly liberal government has declared that states are not permitted to enforce federal immigration laws while also flatly refusing to enforce those same laws at the federal level. In essence, we have no laws regarding immigration.

If we enforced the laws that we have this case would not have ever happened, as both of the suspects were illegal aliens and had been previously deported and then allowed to illegally reenter the US and commit more crimes. Laws are only effective when they are enforced.

Which continually enforces my point...................

What was your point?

 

[CharFace]

(because Marshall Law hasn't been here yet)

 

[Odin]

I would agree that this case was not clear cut, and the case was problematic. In the end, the grand jury gave the benefit of the doubt to the law abiding tax paying citizen instead of the felonious illegal aliens who threatened the citizen when caught in the middle of a crime. While the system may not be perfect I think the grand jury made the best decision they could based on the circumstances.

See this isn't so hard, we aren't unreasonable (except for copperhead). The end decision is perfectly legal (unles SCOTUS intervene or some shit!!!!!!!!!!) which is why I haven't got into a legal argument, there really isn't one. However, the morality of such a decision, well thats another story!

Legislating morality is in itself immoral in my opinion, as it forces one moral standard on everyone.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

What was your point?

That the increasing crime rate indicates the laws are ineffectie and don't proptect the "non felons" as you called them. So to claim Texas is safe would be a misleading statement.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

(because Marshall Law hasn't been here yet)

Oh sweet Jesus no.

(hey ML make sure you say something original pls, k?! Just for me?)

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

Legislating morality is in itself immoral in my opinion, as it forces one moral standard on everyone.

I think the idea is that some laws are considered to be generally moral. Such as persecution of child molesters. But you have to legislate with a moral mind, otherwise how on earth could you do it, what basis of laws would exist?

Here is some specific reading on the subject of Joe horn;

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...s/5866865.html

 

[Copperhead]

Haha!
You're about as sophisticated as a cat turd on my lawn.

Once again, you fail to comprehend the difference between law abiding citizen and career criminal, probably because you don't know what a law-abiding citizen is.

This made my day. Judging sophistication from the internet! Aren't we feeling awfully high and mighty.

OH wait, your american. It's ok, the international community understands your problem, though we wish you wouldn't keep making it ours.

Did you understand any of that or too busy "working"?

You're the one that defeats yourself with your circular arguments, at the same time praising yourself for your "sophistication" and "fantastic subtleties"......
and when anyone makes a valid point, you fail to concede, you just throw something else in from far LEFT field, not based on fact.












And because you are a sociopath, and probably a criminal, you just read what I wrote and said "I've won this debate". You'll make someone a good wife someday, probably in a jail cell.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

"circular arguments" thats the pot calling the kettle black right there. I've heard you recycle the most arguments out of anyone I've encountered ever.

I've conceded plenty of points. Not in this thread, not to you, but certainly many. I can be beaten, it requires a different mindset to the one I see form you though.


Well right feild is full of Bush and Howard loving conservatives, so why would I ever go there?

Oh no, Iread what you wrote and though "If I had access to a gun I'd go shoot this mo fo". Luckily I don't!!

 

[Odin]

What was your point?

That the increasing crime rate indicates the laws are ineffectie and don't proptect the "non felons" as you called them. So to claim Texas is safe would be a misleading statement.

I disgree. Laws, when well written and uniformly and strictly enforced, are an excellent way to deter crime. But laws are only a part of the equation. No matter how many criminals we lock up, if the judicial system continues to release those offenders quickly and without much or any punishment then we can't blame the laws. The entire system has to work together to deter crime, and our system is not working as well as it should.

A major part of our problem is that our jails and prisons are overcrowded and offenders are released quickly, some who should never be released. These offenders immediately return to committing crimes.

If the US decriminalized drugs and deported 100% of all illegal aliens our jails and prisons would be less than half full, leaving us the ability to incarcerate violent and predatory criminals properly. But I don't see this ever happening.

The more freedom a nation enjoys the higher the crime rate will be. Freedom affords opportunity for the ambitious. Some are criminally ambitious.

 

[Odin]

Legislating morality is in itself immoral in my opinion, as it forces one moral standard on everyone.

I think the idea is that some laws are considered to be generally moral. Such as persecution of child molesters. But you have to legislate with a moral mind, otherwise how on earth could you do it, what basis of laws would exist?

Here is some specific reading on the subject of Joe horn;

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...s/5866865.html

But child molesters are violating an innocent person's rights and committing an assault. This can be prosecuted without bringing morals into the equation.

Drug users and prostitutes are hurting nobody but themselves and should not be considered criminals unless/until they commit an act against an innocent third party.

 

[Copperhead]

Oh no, Iread what you wrote and though "If I had access to a gun I'd go shoot this mo fo". Luckily I don't!!

....And in the end, you always come back to threats of violence!

PACIFIST FAIL!!!

 

[Odin]

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

That the increasing crime rate indicates the laws are ineffectie and don't proptect the "non felons" as you called them. So to claim Texas is safe would be a misleading statement.

I disgree. Laws, when well written and uniformly and strictly enforced, are an excellent way to deter crime. But laws are only a part of the equation. No matter how many criminals we lock up, if the judicial system continues to release those offenders quickly and without much or any punishment then we can't blame the laws. The entire system has to work together to deter crime, and our system is not working as well as it should.[/quote[

So how does this not add up to an ineffective law system - it's all connected like you said. Problem is how do you make a law if it's not moral?

A major part of our problem is that our jails and prisons are overcrowded and offenders are released quickly, some who should never be released. These offenders immediately return to committing crimes.

This is not a factual statement. You cannot claim they all do, because they do not all return to crime. Those that do might for various reasons. Many might love crime, many might be fucktards, some even might feel unable to move on given the predjudices raised against them outside of prison (though why these exist is obvious and hardly the fault of those with the predjudice).

If the US decriminalized drugs and deported 100% of all illegal aliens our jails and prisons would be less than half full, leaving us the ability to incarcerate violent and predatory criminals properly. But I don't see this ever happening.

Decriminalise drugs? Are you serious? Some yeh sure, whatever, no worries, Weed, LSD, E - no biggie. Heroin and Meth man, seriously? LEGAL?

The more freedom a nation enjoys the higher the crime rate will be. Freedom affords opportunity for the ambitious. Some are criminally ambitious.

I'm not sure what your point is? The US is the most free and therefore has the highest crime rate? Because I'd argue if your living in a perpetual crime zone your not really free, no matter what rights you have.

Or are you saying countries that are strincter but have less crime are less free (and therefore worse off) because their citizens can lead normal lives?

Or are you saying without any enforcement shit hits the fan, so its about finding the balance?

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

Oh no, Iread what you wrote and though "If I had access to a gun I'd go shoot this mo fo". Luckily I don't!!

....And in the end, you always come back to threats of violence!

PACIFIST FAIL!!!

Now whose got terrible reading comprehension.

Irony and hypocrisy are rife in everything you write.

 

[Copperhead]

Oh NO!
Now you're in for it. He gets all offended when you make fun of his disability....

 

[thiswaythatway]

The fact is that you live a World away and you don't have a clue as to how things are here. Texas is far enough away from me and I'm sure the Laws differ from NJ to Texas. And also, he was CLEARED by a jury so when you call him a vigilante you're wrong.

Umm, how is someone acting against the advice of police (and listen to the convos and prove me wrong) and saying the things he did, and doing something against the law (in shooting the other dude who didn't rush him) NOT vigilante? My location is realistically irrelevant. no one here is going to change laws or make something happen, it's a debate on an internet forum.

IMHO, having a few vigilantes is the least of our problems here. People are obviously sick and tired of getting robbed, assaulted, and watching drug deals go down in their neighborhoods.

Maybe they should look into why these things happen instead of dehuminising people and having kneee jerk reactions.

I don't own a gun but i keep a baseball bat in my bedroom and i have a few hammers laying around. If someone comes onto my property with ill intent I'm swinging first and asking questions later.

Someone running accross your lawn is inherently different from someone coming into your house or threatening your property.

1. The 911 operator advised him to stay inside not the police.

2. He didn't do ANYTHING against the law as PROVEN by the jury who CLEARED him of all charges.

3. You're in Australia. Do you have as many Illegal aliens as the USA coming into your Country dealing drugs, stealing, and taking advantage of the system. USA citizens have rights, Illegal Immigrants have very little rights.

4. Do some research on the 2 guys killed. They were criminals and they would have continued to commit crimes.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

Do you have a problem with me not being ok with people insulting kids with disabilities.

I mean I knew you were low, but really.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

1. The 911 operator advised him to stay inside not the police.

Still more qualified than your run of the mill pensioner. That advice still had a bearning in court.

2. He didn't do ANYTHING against the law as PROVEN by the jury who CLEARED him of all charges.

I'm not arguing the legality of his actions.

3. You're in Australia. Do you have as many Illegal aliens as the USA coming into your Country dealing drugs, stealing, and taking advantage of the system. USA citizens have rights, Illegal Immigrants have very little rights.

Really, do you ahve statistics showing the number of illegal immigrants in Australia verus America? I'm guessing as a percentage of the population you'd be surprised how many we have.

So when the USA signed all those international documents pertaining to human rights, civil rights and social rights of all people, regardless of race this meant nothing? I mean I know the UN doesn't really matter, but I thought the Universal Declaration of Human rights might ahve had SOME sway. Guess not!

4. Do some research on the 2 guys killed. They were criminals and they have continued to commit crimes.

Continued to commit crimes? FROM THE GRAVE??????????????