What gives a guitar it's palm-muted response?

[glassjaw7]

As in, what gives it a "thud" or a sharper, quicker attack? Not talking about pups, but wood maybe?

My Schecter has a JB in the bridge. Mahogany body and quilt maple top. It is very fast and chunky and sounds good for metal when I palm mute. Neck through design.

My G&L also has a JB, alder body, no top and bolt-on neck. It is much more "round" on the bottom when palm-muting. Not as much chunk, more of a big round, spongy and open sound.

So is it the Alder vs Mahogany, the bolt-on vs neck through? Or the maple top on the Schecter that makes it chunkier and faster responding? The G&L is my only bolt-on axe. (and it sounds fantastic fwiw)

 

[Spewnz]

I think its the maple top. A small part may be the neck through as it gives the whole thing more resonance being nearly one piece but its mostly the density of mahogany and that maple top.(correct me if im wrong though) on a side note i remember there being quite a fuss on the schecter forum about how the maple tops on schecters are just veneers and dont do as much for tone as one on a 10 top PRS or EB BFR. but i still think schecters are the best bang for the buck around.

 

[JakeAC5253]

Try the resonance trick on your bolt on, see if it gets it anywhere closer to the neck thru, or tighter at all. I'd be willing to bet money that the neck joint is where most of your difference lies.

 

[JamesPeters]

It's probably not much about the wood types. It's more about how the individual pieces of wood in each guitar happen to sound. There are general "average differences" in the resonances of various kinds of wood, but consistency is impossible to predict among the individual cuts. Some alder guitars don't sound bright, some mahogany guitars do (even ones with mahogany necks and without maple tops), and so on. You can never tell exactly how a guitar is going to sound until you try it.

As for bolt-on vs. set neck, that is probably not a deciding factor in this instance. Nor is it likely the neck pocket "seating trick" will make much difference in the sound unless the guitar wasn't assembled very well or had poor tolerances in the neck rout. (I've tried this on my bolt-on neck guitars and haven't noticed any difference in the sound.) It can't hurt to try it though.

If the G&L has a trem, and it doesn't already have a solid steel block, consider replacing the stock block with a solid steel one. GFS has some for $20. I have a Godin Freeway Classic which had a similar response to what you're saying of your G&L, but swapping the trem block for a solid steel GFS one changed that. I love the guitar now. It made enough difference on its own. If you're in doubt if the block is solid steel, try sticking a magnet to it. If it's steel, it'll stick. If it's not, it probably won't. It's a bit of a hassle to change the block on a trem but it's a cheap solution to try (at $20), cheaper than any decent pickup you'd buy even on the used market.

I also notice it says "G&L Invader (modded to Rampage)" in your signature. If you are using the Kahler made with brass, you might want to consider the steel one instead. That could sharpen the sound enough.

 

[glassjaw7]

It's probably not much about the wood types. It's more about how the individual pieces of wood in each guitar happen to sound. There are general "average differences" in the resonances of various kinds of wood, but consistency is impossible to predict among the individual cuts. Some alder guitars don't sound bright, some mahogany guitars do (even ones with mahogany necks and without maple tops), and so on. You can never tell exactly how a guitar is going to sound until you try it.

As for bolt-on vs. set neck, that is probably not a deciding factor in this instance. Nor is it likely the neck pocket "seating trick" will make much difference in the sound unless the guitar wasn't assembled very well or had poor tolerances in the neck rout. (I've tried this on my bolt-on neck guitars and haven't noticed any difference in the sound.) It can't hurt to try it though.

If the G&L has a trem, and it doesn't already have a solid steel block, consider replacing the stock block with a solid steel one. GFS has some for $20. I have a Godin Freeway Classic which had a similar response to what you're saying of your G&L, but swapping the trem block for a solid steel GFS one changed that. I love the guitar now. It made enough difference on its own. If you're in doubt if the block is solid steel, try sticking a magnet to it. If it's steel, it'll stick. If it's not, it probably won't. It's a bit of a hassle to change the block on a trem but it's a cheap solution to try (at $20), cheaper than any decent pickup you'd buy even on the used market.

I also notice it says "G&L Invader (modded to Rampage)" in your signature. If you are using the Kahler made with brass, you might want to consider the steel one instead. That could sharpen the sound enough.

Thanks James. I don't necessarily want to change the sound of the G&L. Just trying to understand what makes it different so that I know what woods/neck options etc will give me certain tones for future guitars.

By the way, someone here posted a clip of their Peters Gryphon recently and it KILLED! I would love to pick up a preamp someday with the Gryphon dirty channel. Also I have to ask, is it coincidence that Peters Gryphon sounds a lot like Peter Griffin?? Thanks. Jordan

 

[ke2]

Are there different string gauges on the guitar? Frets?

Thicker strings give a more pronounced sound. String height also (And in my head, fret size makes a difference, but that might just be because bigger frets FEEL better to me )

I just got a Schecter C7 Blackjack from Scott, and it`s incredibly tight. It`s a 26,5" scale, though. That and the 010s on it makes a difference. Both my ESP and Schecters have TOM bridges. My Ibanez RG with Edge tremolo (original block) is far looser. I want to put in a brass block and maybe go up to 0095, to see what happens.

 

[Random Hero]

I think its the maple top. A small part may be the neck through as it gives the whole thing more resonance being nearly one piece but its mostly the density of mahogany and that maple top.(correct me if im wrong though) on a side note i remember there being quite a fuss on the schecter forum about how the maple tops on schecters are just veneers and dont do as much for tone as one on a 10 top PRS or EB BFR. but i still think schecters are the best bang for the buck around.

I was under the impression that the neck had a far greater impact on the tone of the instrument over a 1/4" top?

 

[JamesPeters]

Thanks James. I don't necessarily want to change the sound of the G&L. Just trying to understand what makes it different so that I know what woods/neck options etc will give me certain tones for future guitars.

By the way, someone here posted a clip of their Peters Gryphon recently and it KILLED! I would love to pick up a preamp someday with the Gryphon dirty channel. Also I have to ask, is it coincidence that Peters Gryphon sounds a lot like Peter Griffin?? Thanks. Jordan

Hi Jordan,

Everything contributes to how a guitar sounds, and sometimes "specs" such as wood types/bridge types/etc. make enough difference in the sound that it's worth considering. However the individual cuts of wood influence the sound more than most of the "specs" (presuming the guitars aren't drastically different in terms of size, assuming the pickups are the same etc.) And the individual cuts of wood will sound different from guitar to guitar, even in the same brand/model/manufacturing batch. Try 20 of the "same" guitar in a store and you'll find one that stands out as your favorite. That's usually the way it goes, and there's very little anyone can do but try various guitars back-to-back and pick the best sounding one.

There are very few guitar makers I'd be willing to buy from without trying the product first. I've had pretty good luck with G&L, Anderson, Suhr, but very few others (except in short periods of time, such as when Yamaha made a very consistent sounding batch of AES guitars, for instance). And even so that doesn't mean I'd pick a guitar and buy it online without trying it; it would still take a fair bit of convincing for me to take that step. I'm quite particular about the guitars I like, for their sound.

So try not to think of specs too much. Consider some of them but don't think too much about them overall, because how the individual pieces of wood sound is the key.

It's not a coincidence that the Peters Gryphon sounds like Peter Griffin.

-James

 

[robertkoa]

Tone is in the Palms.



Hah! Well actually I have no idea. Never palm mute............not that funny?, try palm muting while you read it.

Still not funny , well maybe I'm not that clever then......