Z
zoom club
New member
What album.
I know I should know this but I dumb.
I know I should know this but I dumb.
311splawndude
Well-known member
It is my understanding that the first album that would have seen an actual Floyd Rose bridge would have been Women and Children First.
He used a standard Fender floating bridge (on his super strats) up until that point though just to be clear. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Somewhere on the web is a very detailed description of each of his guitars and when they were used. Here is a summary though:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/fe ... halen.html
Is that what you are asking?
He used a standard Fender floating bridge (on his super strats) up until that point though just to be clear. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Somewhere on the web is a very detailed description of each of his guitars and when they were used. Here is a summary though:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/fe ... halen.html
Is that what you are asking?
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bobbyd
New member
the above poster is correct. and the floyd really came into full play by Fair Warning....
Z
zoom club
New member
Yes. I didn't want to nerd out, but listening to the albums in order this morning,
Which I had never done, for whatever. ..any way thanks.
Which I had never done, for whatever. ..any way thanks.
Z
zoom club
New member
Interesting, I never really thought about it, because on vh2 he does some floyd ish stuff with the 6 screws.
I dunno, I was watching Valerie on 1 day at a time. ..smoking.
I dunno, I was watching Valerie on 1 day at a time. ..smoking.
Rdodson
Well-known member
Actually regarding the Frank he didn't use the Floyd on WACF. That was FW, but on that record he used his Les Pauls quite a bit as he didn't like the tone he was getting. You can hear the Frank with the Floyd on Sinners Swing. Before that I'm not sure.
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bobbyd
New member
the tonal and timbral difference in EVH's guitar tone became pretty evident with Fair Warning. Eddie knew that the Floyd was going to alter the famous "brown sound" for sure. But the lure of having rock solid tuning finally outweighed the missing (haunted???) mids....
personally, I like the Fair Warning tone better than ANY of the earlier VH records. call me weird.....I owned the very first Floyd that Kramer Guitars shipped to Florida back then.....i wanted it BAD.......before Kramer, if you wanted a Floyd you practicallly needed to take a road trip to Seattle and get Floyd to install one himself. your average luthier had no idea how to do Floyd installs. I had a VERY ear,y Kramer Pacer Imperial with a strathead neck (Fender hit them with "the letter" pretty quickly) - my Pacer was a SOLID MAPLE body, so it was bright to start with. We returned my Pacer to the Kramer factory and they installed the FLoyd and shipped it back to me. I was as happy as Tyrone Biggums with ten pounds of rocks
The Floyd really changed the tone of my Pacer....with the Maple body, and an early Maricella wound JB model seymour duncan in the rear, I already had a pretty bright and in your face sound. The Floyd managed to take even more mids away from my sound, but I didn't give A FUCK......because I could whammy all night long, set after set, and stay in tune. Seriously, that Pacer with the maple body and neck and a set of D'addario .009s would stay in tune ALL WEEK LONG.....if the temps changed significantly, I might have the whole guitar go a little sharp or flat. As long as I didn't break a string, I could do ANYTHING to that guitar and still stay in tune.
The loss of the mids DID concern me, and at the time I was using 50 watt JMP Marshall amps. didn't use dirt pedals, just phase/flange.chorus/delay....but to help rectify the mids, I had a parametric EQ/booster pedal, and that gave me a little but of those lower mids back....
You can hear this pretty easily listening to VH II and then Fair Warning....EVH lost quite a bit of those lower mids, and his tone changed quite a bit - but i really DUG it.....I loved the way the Floyd made guitars sound.
TL;DR - floyds take away them mids, OK?
personally, I like the Fair Warning tone better than ANY of the earlier VH records. call me weird.....I owned the very first Floyd that Kramer Guitars shipped to Florida back then.....i wanted it BAD.......before Kramer, if you wanted a Floyd you practicallly needed to take a road trip to Seattle and get Floyd to install one himself. your average luthier had no idea how to do Floyd installs. I had a VERY ear,y Kramer Pacer Imperial with a strathead neck (Fender hit them with "the letter" pretty quickly) - my Pacer was a SOLID MAPLE body, so it was bright to start with. We returned my Pacer to the Kramer factory and they installed the FLoyd and shipped it back to me. I was as happy as Tyrone Biggums with ten pounds of rocks
The Floyd
really changed the tone of my Pacer....with the Maple body, and an early Maricella wound JB model seymour duncan in the rear, I already had a pretty bright and in your face sound. The Floyd managed to take even more mids away from my sound, but I didn't give A FUCK......because I could whammy all night long, set after set, and stay in tune. Seriously, that Pacer with the maple body and neck and a set of D'addario .009s would stay in tune ALL WEEK LONG.....if the temps changed significantly, I might have the whole guitar go a little sharp or flat. As long as I didn't break a string, I could do ANYTHING to that guitar and still stay in tune. The loss of the mids DID concern me, and at the time I was using 50 watt JMP Marshall amps. didn't use dirt pedals, just phase/flange.chorus/delay....but to help rectify the mids, I had a parametric EQ/booster pedal, and that gave me a little but of those lower mids back....
You can hear this pretty easily listening to VH II and then Fair Warning....EVH lost quite a bit of those lower mids, and his tone changed quite a bit - but i really DUG it.....I loved the way the Floyd made guitars sound.
TL;DR - floyds take away them mids, OK?
Rock Bodom
Active member
Do we know definitely there was no Floyd use on WACF? I always wondered from the recording sessions pic below, I thought the Floyd was on the bumblebee at that point. Not sure if he actually used it, but always wondered if possibly something with the Floyd got recorded.
Rdodson
Well-known member
Spot-on, Bobbyd. I think this is why, starting with Fair Warning, the Eventide was making its presence felt. Not to the ridiculous extent as in 5150 or 0U812, but it is all over that record. Strats, Les Pauls, and loads of H910.
I don't know if the Bee was actually used or not on WACF. When I was working for the band and doing the equipment stuff for the website, Ed didn't remember and wasn't really interested in talking old gear. The WASP Destroyer is for sure on there, and the still-Fender-tremolo-equipped Frank.
I don't know if the Bee was actually used or not on WACF. When I was working for the band and doing the equipment stuff for the website, Ed didn't remember and wasn't really interested in talking old gear. The WASP Destroyer is for sure on there, and the still-Fender-tremolo-equipped Frank.
T
thisguy
Active member
"Oh, yeah. Okay, another thing. There’s this guy named Floyd Rose. I have a vibrato setup that he makes, and I like it and I don’t. It has its advantages and disadvantages. Like in the studio, I use a standard vibrato, a Fender. I’m used to it."
"See, that’s the thing I was getting to also. I like the sound I get out of the normal old Fender tremolo. The only thing I don’t like about the Floyd Rose thing – it’s a great idea, you can go crazy with the bar – but I don’t know what kind of metal he uses, but it sounds real brittle-bright. I have to do some heavy equalization to get a tone out of it. That’s why I don’t use it in the studio. Because in the studio, Ted [Templeman] really doesn’t do much equalization. We just go in there and play live, and I depend on making it sound good out of the amp, instead of, “Oh, well. Fix it in the mix.” That’s why it also goes so quick."
http://jasobrecht.com/eddie-van-halen-complete-1979-interview/
"See, that’s the thing I was getting to also. I like the sound I get out of the normal old Fender tremolo. The only thing I don’t like about the Floyd Rose thing – it’s a great idea, you can go crazy with the bar – but I don’t know what kind of metal he uses, but it sounds real brittle-bright. I have to do some heavy equalization to get a tone out of it. That’s why I don’t use it in the studio. Because in the studio, Ted [Templeman] really doesn’t do much equalization. We just go in there and play live, and I depend on making it sound good out of the amp, instead of, “Oh, well. Fix it in the mix.” That’s why it also goes so quick."
http://jasobrecht.com/eddie-van-halen-complete-1979-interview/
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guitarnerdswe
Member
thisguy":2ktdw092 said:
Isn't he talking about the original floyd rose, without the fine tuners etc?
T
thisguy
Active member
guitarnerdswe":13c96b46 said:
Check out the second quote I just added.
cardinal
Well-known member
I remember hearing that he'd swap the Floyd on for live performances but would put the 6-screw Trem back on for recording. Dunno if that's accurate.
hammered
Well-known member
Rock Bodom":15ovemkx said:Do we know definitely there was no Floyd use on WACF? I always wondered from the recording sessions pic below, I thought the Floyd was on the bumblebee at that point. Not sure if he actually used it, but always wondered if possibly something with the Floyd got recorded.
Yes the Floyd was on the bee for the recording of WACF , it was on the bee for the 79 tour . I'd bet it was used for Everybody Wants Some
B
bobbyd
New member
in most of his early interviews, EVH pretty much LIED. he initially told people the "magic" brown sound amp was a 50 watt plexi (it really was a 100 watter) and that he would use a Variac to "crank UP the voltage to get that brown sound".....which led to quite a few Marshall heads getting FRIED because dudes wanted to sound like Eddie.....
EVH is a completely new and different kind of guitar hero - he was the first one that not only had his own style that everyone wanted to copy, he even started a revolution in GEAR....basically ANYTHING associated with EVH started selling like hotcakes. Kramer was REALLY smart and lucky to sign EVH to an endorsement deal......because let's be honest, their guitars were AVERAGE at best. If they had not signed EVH and later FLOYD ROSE to the exclusive deals they did, i am sure they would have gone out of business. Nobody really wanted their aluminum neck hippie sandwich monstrosity guitars....
CHARVEL is the company that SHOULD have signed EVH to a deal. but it's probably better that they DIDNT. it probably would have KILLED Charvel/Jackson, becaise they didn't have the staff nor did they have the experience to deal with success on that level....
And it's all Kramer's fault that so many otherwise KILLER guitars from Charvel/Jackson ended up with f#$%king Kahler trems....Kramer made it so increasingly difficult for ANY other guitar manufacturer to build guitars with Floyd Roses....at Throughbred Music, my local hangout for most of the 80s and one of the largest Charvel/Jackson dealers in the world, they were too lazy to put the Floyds from Kramer than ship them back to Charvel for the guitars........they just ordered Kahler equipped guitars instead, even though most of us players wanted the Floyds. It was only the guys who were willing to do custom orders and WAIT 9 months for their guitars that got FLoyd Rose equipped Charvel/Jacksons.
I used to work for the man who was in charge of Akai - Jerry Freed at AMIC - Akai Musical Instrument COmpany - who were the company that Grover sold out to. He told me how as soon as they bought the company, the FIRST THING they did was stop all USA Charvel production, and start building them much cheaper in Japan. He tried to cut every corner and expense that he could, which is why we had such SHITTY hardware as the JT-sux, I mean JT-6 tremolo. I remember ordering TWO custom Jackson strats in 1986, and finally breathing easy because I had ordered both of them with FLOYD ROSE trems..........and then when my guitars finally were built and shipped, I nearly cried......not only did they come in shitty plastic cases (the original grey "chainsaw" cases) but they had the JT-6 tremolo.....which feels crappy under your hand, doesn't stay intune like a Floyd, has really poor fine tuner ability, and also has the WORST locknut in locking trem history. I nearly lost my mind when the two guitars I had custom ordered finally arrived after 9 months of waiting and full payment UP FRONT.....
which ked me to HAMER - after that whole debacle, it left a really bad taste in my mouth over Charvel/Jackson, and I went with THREE custom Hamer guitars. Jol Dantzig had the right idea, and mated the Floyd Rose trems with really tasty HONDURAN MAHOGANY bodied and necks - which resulted in a much juicier and fuller tone from the Fl oyd. My Steve Stevens guitars were one of the best sounding Floyd equipped guitars I have ever owned. And my Hamer SCEPTRE had a neck that was even better feeling than a Soloist Custom - jet black ebony board, big ass frets that were finished to perfection, and a great modern "C" feel. and my Hamers simply sounded BETTER with the Floyd Rose trems thanany other guitar I had tried....
EVH is a completely new and different kind of guitar hero - he was the first one that not only had his own style that everyone wanted to copy, he even started a revolution in GEAR....basically ANYTHING associated with EVH started selling like hotcakes. Kramer was REALLY smart and lucky to sign EVH to an endorsement deal......because let's be honest, their guitars were AVERAGE at best. If they had not signed EVH and later FLOYD ROSE to the exclusive deals they did, i am sure they would have gone out of business. Nobody really wanted their aluminum neck hippie sandwich monstrosity guitars....
CHARVEL is the company that SHOULD have signed EVH to a deal. but it's probably better that they DIDNT. it probably would have KILLED Charvel/Jackson, becaise they didn't have the staff nor did they have the experience to deal with success on that level....
And it's all Kramer's fault that so many otherwise KILLER guitars from Charvel/Jackson ended up with f#$%king Kahler trems....Kramer made it so increasingly difficult for ANY other guitar manufacturer to build guitars with Floyd Roses....at Throughbred Music, my local hangout for most of the 80s and one of the largest Charvel/Jackson dealers in the world, they were too lazy to put the Floyds from Kramer than ship them back to Charvel for the guitars........they just ordered Kahler equipped guitars instead, even though most of us players wanted the Floyds. It was only the guys who were willing to do custom orders and WAIT 9 months for their guitars that got FLoyd Rose equipped Charvel/Jacksons.
I used to work for the man who was in charge of Akai - Jerry Freed at AMIC - Akai Musical Instrument COmpany - who were the company that Grover sold out to. He told me how as soon as they bought the company, the FIRST THING they did was stop all USA Charvel production, and start building them much cheaper in Japan. He tried to cut every corner and expense that he could, which is why we had such SHITTY hardware as the JT-sux, I mean JT-6 tremolo. I remember ordering TWO custom Jackson strats in 1986, and finally breathing easy because I had ordered both of them with FLOYD ROSE trems..........and then when my guitars finally were built and shipped, I nearly cried......not only did they come in shitty plastic cases (the original grey "chainsaw" cases) but they had the JT-6 tremolo.....which feels crappy under your hand, doesn't stay intune like a Floyd, has really poor fine tuner ability, and also has the WORST locknut in locking trem history. I nearly lost my mind when the two guitars I had custom ordered finally arrived after 9 months of waiting and full payment UP FRONT.....
which ked me to HAMER - after that whole debacle, it left a really bad taste in my mouth over Charvel/Jackson, and I went with THREE custom Hamer guitars. Jol Dantzig had the right idea, and mated the Floyd Rose trems with really tasty HONDURAN MAHOGANY bodied and necks - which resulted in a much juicier and fuller tone from the Fl oyd. My Steve Stevens guitars were one of the best sounding Floyd equipped guitars I have ever owned. And my Hamer SCEPTRE had a neck that was even better feeling than a Soloist Custom - jet black ebony board, big ass frets that were finished to perfection, and a great modern "C" feel. and my Hamers simply sounded BETTER with the Floyd Rose trems thanany other guitar I had tried....
G
guitarnerdswe
Member
thisguy":8ocwqo7j said:
Still doesn't say what version of the trem it is. In 1979, I'm pretty sure the double locking OFR with fine tuners wasn't out yet. I seem to remember it taking a couple of more years before the full OFR was released.
Rock Bodom
Active member
Fine tuners were indeed later, plenty of pics of the Bee from this era such as this one show the early version:guitarnerdswe":35j3uw03 said:
B
bobbyd
New member
guitarnerdswe":cca23f10 said:
you are entirely correct - the fine tuner version of the Floyd did not come out until AFTER Kramer had locked Floyd down (pun intended) into a contract.
Weird aside......I had always been told that Kramer and Dennis Berardi were partially funded by Mafia cash....the Jersey boys smelled money with Kramer and the 80s guitar revolution and of course EVH......and for about a decade Kramer did indeed make boatloads of cash....but then they got greedy and kept putting out "American" guitars that were barely even ASSEMBLED in America, much less "made" here.
the two best sounding Kramer guitars I ever owned were actually Tom Anderson designed - the Elliot Easton model Kramer was a killer bolt on super strat......and the Paul Dean model - Loverboy's guitarist had a model that is well worth seeking out for cheap IF you can find one. they are solid honduran mahogany both body and neck - set neck design - Seymour Duncan pickups - and a Floyd Rose....one of the best sounding Floyd equipped guitars I have ever heard...
Rick Lee
Well-known member
bobbyd":2p0eywi7 said:
I agree. Dennis lived im Deal, NJ and my mom always told me that was the safest place in NJ because the mob kept all the petty criminals away. And Henry Vaccaro was Kramer's main money guy. Andy Pappacio now runs US ops for Floyd Rose. I got to tour the Kramer factory when I was 15 around the 5150 tour time. Got to meet them all.
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bobbyd
New member
Rick Lee":155isvth said:
that's cool! My old Kramer Pacer, serial #B0149, is now owned by Andy Pappacio - he was the one that did the Floyd install on it back in 1983 when it was shipped back to Kramer - I played it for a decade on the road, then sold it to a good friend who basically put it under the bed and left it alone for about 20 years. I ended up buying it back from him, and later put it up for sale, and it was Andy who wanted it back!
