rstites
Well-known member
I've never heard of a Jose mod other than the added diodes, so I'm curious about this. Fortin advertises a Jose mod on his website and under it offers a mod with an extra 12AX7. Maybe that's it?
EXPcustom
Well-known member
rstites":2bttp6z4 said:
Jose did a mod with an extra pre-amp tube. The amp that Richard Fortus uses has a Jose mod with an 12ax7 for the gain stage. It is or was rumored to be Mick Mars old amp.
I can't speak on Fortin stuff other than one of his well known mods is a very close copy of someone else's mod that's not Jose's but I dont want to get into that.
P
paulyc
Well-known member
Isnt the Jose with the added tube a Super Lead type with the two parallel channels still (not cascaded) with the extra tube split in half for each channel ? So you end up with an extra stage AND diode clipping in parallel channels ? The added stage must not be pushing a ton of gain or the diode clipping would make it silly...
rottingcorpse
Well-known member
EXPcustom,i wonder if the Langner mod(or a variation of one)is what you're asking about. Mine is all tube,and it crushes for thrash and brutals.
Not that i dont dig the diode gain tone,especially when its coming outta psychodaves setup.
Not that i dont dig the diode gain tone,especially when its coming outta psychodaves setup.
Mailman1971
Moderator
I like milk.
glpg80
Well-known member
rottingcorpse":io49zama said:
I love the diode gain tone. Is the reason I bothered with a Henning Cherry Bomb. Here's Tony's amp:
technomancer
Well-known member
EXPcustom":om0flqf0 said:
Pretty sure the Jose with an extra tube just switched in a single gain stage in front of the normal Marshall topology, which is basically what the Friedman HBE mode is.
P
paulyc
Well-known member
I have 2 Egnater 2203s with his extra stage and no diode clipping that, to me, sound killer. Sounds just like an SD-1 in front of a stock 2203, with the added benefit of his low end density mod and his tube loop.
rstites
Well-known member
paulyc":1dq03a90 said:
Are these the seminar/kit amps?
P
paulyc
Well-known member
No, they’re his “Megadrive” mod. One is a 79 JMP 2203, the other is a later JCM 800 2203.
zz666
Active member
I have a switch on my 800 that switches the diodes on or off, I prefer them on, (On is a Jose, off is 4 stage tube gain) they kinda work with the way I play, but I think it depends on the music you're playing and what you're going for.
Kapo_Polenton
Well-known member
zz666":4u53eieh said:
Is that just like a Jose Master sort of deal with the zeners that is on a switch? As for diode clipping, I like it too, 2205's and Jubilees sound pretty good to my ear! Be it tube or diode, as long as the gain is tight and defined, I could careless how I get it.
zz666
Active member
Kapo_Polenton":3danrc64 said:
Jose Master? Kinda yeah.
IntenseJim
Active member
Is the 80s mode or Hot input in the Bogner Helios a Jose mod? Or something different?
kdmay
New member
IntenseJim":2mzhf4i2 said:
The Helios has 2 inputs: Plexi and Hot.
The Plexi input is your traditional 2 gain stages, Cathode Follower and Phase Inverter like an old Superlead. The Clean channel in this case is a single triode (gain stage) into the Phase Inverter (no tone stack).
The Hot input adds a gain stage in front of all of this, which is fundamentally what Jose did when he modded amps back in the day. When you get your head around circuits and the old Marshall turret board, converting a stock plexi into a 3 stager (Jose style) is very simple. Only a case of redirecting a few wires here and there, as the 2 x 68k resistors are already there on the board (although Bogner decided to up these resistors presumably to reduce loading on the proceeding stage to generate a little less compression).
So for Hot mode, you get 3 gain stages for the Dirty channel (2 gain stages, gain control, gain stage cathode follower then tone stack, like the Friedman stuff also). For the clean channel, you get 2 gain stages then straight into the Phase Inverter. Which is why the clean channel isn't super clean in Hot mode.
80s mode engages zener diode clipping for the Dirty channel in either the Plexi or Hot inputs.
Now where the difference with the Helios and the traditional Jose lie is the placement of the Master Volume. Like Friedman and many others, Bogner places the Master Volume after the tone stack. Jose mods (and many Cameron amps, for example the Atomica) place the master volume before the tone stack. This does change the response of the master and the overall circuit quite a bit.
I should add that there is no real one Jose mod. He did heaps of different mods in the day, for whatever people wanted. But the most documented one has the Master Volume pre-tone stack (IIRC).
I would also add that there are a few circuit tweaks here and there that make the Helios a Bogner - it has the Bogner voice. Power supply filtering and LP filters being the notable ones.
Hope this helps.
IntenseJim
Active member
That is exceptional. Thank you very much. 
I was trying to discern how different or similar the Fortin Cali would sound from the Helios 50 or Friedman built Atomica.
I was trying to discern how different or similar the Fortin Cali would sound from the Helios 50 or Friedman built Atomica.
J
jco5055
Member
glpg80":3ve1fpst said:
Man I don't think I've ever heard a bad Cherry Bomb clip. They're like the anti-Wizards for me in that regard since I'm one of those who's never been impressed by 90% of Wizard clips, and as opposed to the Wizard love on the internet I'm almost convinced my ears are duping me with the lack of that for the Cherry Bomb. Don't get me wrong I don't think I've ever seen a negative opinion, but not the "Ultimate amp" a la Wizard.
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
You really have to play a Wizard to get it. It's not an amp that will impress with clips...you have to be in the room to get the clarity and thump they have. It might not be for you, but clips won't do it..same with an SLO, which in a youtube comparing it to a 6505 they sounded identical.jco5055":3756jqsn said:
I've played a 6505 and owned SLOs, and they are very far apart when you play them in person. Only thing they have in common are the mids. Same with a C+, clips will make them sound like a Mark III. But in person they are like taking the blanket off the speakers different.If you only rely on clips to sell you an amp, good luck. You might pass on some great ones. I understand not many have an opportunity to try one out before buying, but sometimes you have to take the plunge anyway.
J
jco5055
Member
Yeah I get that, and would love to just hear a Wizard in person as I do not have the means for any new gear atm, but I was more impressed by my continuing fact that the Cherry Bomb has always sounded amazing to me. Like if I won the lotto I'd for sure get one just to see if my ears are deceiving me.
glpg80
Well-known member
The Henning was great, but it couldn't get there with gain for lead playing for me. I tried to make it work but it always fell short - I'm coming from a modded 5150 II, so the Henning lost that battle easily.
The Cherry Bomb also doesn't have a truely clean clean channel. It's actually two marshall style hot channels, so it's essentially two single channel amplifiers that are marshall style. I wanted clean/lead and need it for my playing style and preferences, so the amp had to go.
Now I just have the JMP and I run a boost in front of it - problem solved for my tonal needs.
The Cherry Bomb also doesn't have a truely clean clean channel. It's actually two marshall style hot channels, so it's essentially two single channel amplifiers that are marshall style. I wanted clean/lead and need it for my playing style and preferences, so the amp had to go.
Now I just have the JMP and I run a boost in front of it - problem solved for my tonal needs.