Why Do All Metallica Fans Hate Bob Rock?

[metalsoup]

The reason they are still so successful isn't just because of their old stuff, it's because they evolved not just sat around playing their old music or still trying to cop EVHs classic tone some 30 yrs later like members here do. Comprende?

No one is denying the reason they're still so successful is due to their evolution. Indeed, it is the very heart of the matter. They became more mainstream with the Black Album and so naturally appealed to a wider audience. But that wider appeal and extended success came at a huge price. That evolution, many of us contend, was not for the better but for the worse: they had slowed down, they had become kinder and gentler, they had become soft. And that was anathema and contrary to what it means to be metal. It was as if they were purposefully dumbing down their music for the sake of the masses. It was Metallica-lite, and like decaffeinated coffee or non-alcoholic beer, many of us wondered why? Why would you do that? What's the point? Why not continue to give us the full-strength brew instead of this watered-down, radio-friendly, moderated blandness. The prime objective of the earlier albums was simple: pummeling you into submission. The new stuff was now simply trying to be your friend. It was like Mr. Rogers saying, "Won't you be my neighbor?" Hey kids, can you spell "Metallica?"

If you can enjoy their newer material as much as the old, you're not only flexible but quite fortunate. For us born and raised on the hard stuff, we can't go back. We can't tolerate the syrupy sweet, commercially viable concoctions. We need our therapeutic pummeling.

 

[oldmtlhed]

For us born and raised on the hard stuff, we can't go back. We can't tolerate the syrupy sweet, commercially viable concoctions. We need our therapeutic pummeling.

Well said. I agree.
That's where I am at. I was raised on "RTL" and "MoP". I can't stand the new crap.

Listen to RTL. The whole thing. Then listen to LOAD immediately after.
You can't believe it's the same band. The difference is massive.

 

[romanianreaper]

My favorite bands are Metallica, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, the Beatles, and KISS. I'll keep KISS out of this because they shamefully admit that they all about the party lyrics, etc.

As far as the other ones, they have never been afraid to take risks and try new things whether it be ballads, a new sound, etc. AC/DC and Slayer are the only bands IMO that can do the same formula over and over and still kick ass doing it. If Metallica were still doing albums in Finland with Flemming as a producer, I might not even be listening to them anymore.

The LOAD album still gives me PTSD to this day and I can barely listen to it without getting ill. I still remember listening to it and it was almost like the day I heard about Cliff Burton dying. I just sat there like "what the f?". I kept listening thinking I'd hear my band in there somewhere but that moment never came. I will say that now there are some songs on there I actually like and liked them back then, even though it was a shock to my system.

Change is good sometimes to shake things up and sometimes a band gets back to the sounds they were known for.

 

[oldmtlhed]

Change is good sometimes to shake things up and sometimes a band gets back to the sounds they were known for.

You just described RUSH.

RUSH went all over the place, and just when I thought they were going "metal"..... nope!
Imagine my disappointment. RUSH would have done some killer metal.

"Moving Pictures" was almost there. Almost.

 

[rottingcorpse]

It's hard to sound young and hungry when you're no longer young and hungry.

Those of you that dig the older rich comfortable metallica,cool. I dug them when they were young and pissed. Doesn't mean I am a "reprehensible turn coat" or some other retarded statement. I just don't dig the metallica that became "comfortable".

Note,I would love to have grown up with the early stuff mixed as huge as the stuff I hear now days. But that great metallica guitar tone was the shit.

 

[SavageRiffer]

You can't forget James Hetfield's contribution to the guitar world too. There are a thousand threads and youtube videos all about getting the Metallica tones. James Hetfield paved the way for waves and waves of outstanding metal bands. You can even hear their influence in other big name bands. Trivium comes to mind.

The Dave Mustain thing is a whole other can of beans. I used to be a bigger Metallica fan than Megadeth, but after the Black album, Megadeth just kept pumping out great stuff. Now I'm a little bigger fan of Megadeth than Metallica. I have some curiosity as to what song material Hetfield allegedly stole from Mustain, but I don't care much for all of that... nor do I care about the whole Bob Rock thing unless it was Rock who really did get them all fucked up after the Black album. I didn't know back then anything about Bob Rock. I just figured Metallica was getting burned out. It also seemed like losing Newstead took a lot away from the band.

 

[squank]

All bands change over time, and fans look for someone to blame.

Blame the band.

 

[stephen sawall]

I saw the same thing happen with Aerosmith a few years earlier.

 

[Steinmetzify]

But that wider appeal and extended success came at a huge price.

Just playing Devil's advocate here, because everything else you said was totally on point and I agree with all of it.

The price though? That price....the price was a collective worth of close to a BILLION DOLLARS. They outright own their masters, they own their publishing, etc...I remember an interview with a band whose tunes Metallica covered, and those guys were nothing but effusive, saying the royalties from Metallica covering those songs paid their bills for literally YEARS.

Said it before and I'll say it again....I'm not hating. The Black album opened them up to a whole new world of record buyers, and that's hard to hate on, or NOT imagine doing as a band.

If you could all of a sudden take a 1000% pay raise, would the fact that everyone you used to know said you sold out matter? So what? Fuck them, they ain't paying your bills...

Devil's advocate done:

Still don't love the newer shit after AFJA....no one could call me a turncoat or whatever stupid term they want....I still pay every single time one of the first 4 albums wears out and I'm fuckin glad to do it...they're still the same guys and still play the same tunes in concert. I just don't want to listen to their new stuff, is all.

Call it whatever you want, IDGAF...the newer shit doesn't appeal to me and I won't pay them for it, just like I won't buy a new drink at a bar that's been serving a favorite concoction for years....it's not good to me, so I don't need it.

Turncoat my ass....I guarantee you I've paid more for Metallica tunes over the years than anyone that's only ever bought one of all their albums...

 

[Tone Monster]

None of it really even matters. If you like one song or their whole catalog or none of it. It's all good. Metallica is a big part of my life, and that's great for ME. If you can't stand them, think they are sellouts, or gods, that's great too. Live and let live. Don't be a Jerry Springer pussy and get caught up in to what other people think. Go play your guitar and have a beer !

 

[metalsoup]

The price though? That price....

Of course, the price I was referring to was what might have been had they not changed their hardcore direction. Maybe they really were out of ideas with respect to topping their previous work and had to do something different. I've always wondered if things might have played out differently had Cliff not been tragically killed. I'm not sure to what extent he influenced the band's direction, but he sure seemed to be a non-compromising dude. Just look at those bell-bottoms! From what I remember reading, he certainly contributed to the band's musical style and direction. What would the successors to MOP have been like with him on board? No doubt the band would have continued to be monetarily successful, maybe just not to the same degree. I've always suspected Lars was the culprit in changing the band's direction. Be that as it may, metal is still alive and well to this day, though not with the same degree of unity and presence we enjoyed in the '80s. Perhaps that's what I miss the most. That was a special era the likes of which we will not see again. "Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo."

 

[errrrrl]

"Why Do All Metallica Fans Hate Bob Rock?"

Old school Metallica fan here... and like everyone else couldn't stand the black album and beyond. I hate Bob Rock because he shaped the black album period. He also influenced Lars to stop doing long drum fills... It was on their documentary. I guess it doesn't really matter though cause long fills wouldn't have made me like the black album lol. Basically after AJFA Lars is all snare and bass drum fills... he barely uses his toms anymore. I use to love his fills on Creeping Death. I know people rag his drumming skills and say he is a joke compared to Dave Lombardo or Charlie from Anthrax but I was ok with his drumming. It matched Hetfield's riffs.

Also I'm with Mailman... I actually liked Death Magnetic more so than the latest album.

 

[romanianreaper]

I saw the same thing happen with Aerosmith a few years earlier.

Let's not throw them into the loop. With my bad eyesight as I get older I'll see Steven Tyler in concert and think it is Jennifer Lopez....

Back to the Metallica thing, I think they just had a series of a lot of things happen that resulted in big change. The biggest was Cliff dying. Like Steve Harris in Maiden or Neil Peart in Rush, he was like the architect of themes and song structures, etc. The other thing, IMO was ....and Justice for All. I think they did these 10 minute heavy songs and on the following tour just go burned out and felt like they had boxed themselves into a certain look and sound. The Black Album was the change and I think it had more to do with them than Bob Rock. The vocal ideas and tone was Bob but the songs were all Metallica. I mean James wrote "Nothing Else Matters" and that made "Fade to Black" sound like a Slayer song.

 

[Beyond Black]

I don't hate Bob Rock. I hate Metallica.

 

[D-Rock]

The reason they are still so successful isn't just because of their old stuff, it's because they evolved not just sat around playing their old music or still trying to cop EVHs classic tone some 30 yrs later like members here do. Comprende?

No one is denying the reason they're still so successful is due to their evolution. Indeed, it is the very heart of the matter. They became more mainstream with the Black Album and so naturally appealed to a wider audience. But that wider appeal and extended success came at a huge price. That evolution, many of us contend, was not for the better but for the worse: they had slowed down, they had become kinder and gentler, they had become soft. And that was anathema and contrary to what it means to be metal. It was as if they were purposefully dumbing down their music for the sake of the masses. It was Metallica-lite, and like decaffeinated coffee or non-alcoholic beer, many of us wondered why? Why would you do that? What's the point? Why not continue to give us the full-strength brew instead of this watered-down, radio-friendly, moderated blandness. The prime objective of the earlier albums was simple: pummeling you into submission. The new stuff was now simply trying to be your friend. It was like Mr. Rogers saying, "Won't you be my neighbor?" Hey kids, can you spell "Metallica?"

If you can enjoy their newer material as much as the old, you're not only flexible but quite fortunate. For us born and raised on the hard stuff, we can't go back. We can't tolerate the syrupy sweet, commercially viable concoctions. We need our therapeutic pummeling.

Your imbibing metaphor is actually quite accurate. Gluttonous consumption of an artist's work...until the recipe is tweaked. Then toss it out like a bag of leftover fastfood...."Gimme more of what I want, because if you don't, you're dead to me! Make your art how I want it to be! Nom nom nom gorge gorge gorge!"
That's all I hear when stubborn old Metallica fans try to justify their misguided discontent.

 

[Zachalou]

I don't hate Bob Rock. I hate Metallica.

 

[metalsoup]

That's all I hear when stubborn old Metallica fans try to justify their misguided discontent.

Why is my discontent "misguided?" As a customer do I not have the right to like what I like? If a band decides to take a substantial change in direction, why should my preferences all of a sudden change as well? I would have preferred that Metallica stay on their original course. But either they were unwilling or unable to do so. It doesn't really matter why, though some may be more upset if they thought it was done purely for the sake of money. But I think most of us are able to accept that it is a band's prerogative to change as they see fit. And if they do change, the fallout may simply be that some of their fans don't follow them or "like" them anymore. Neither side is misguided.

I think the reason some of us still even talk about Metallica's change in direction is because they were the leading metal band at the time by far. They were untouchable. For them to make the abrupt change that they did when they did was huge. It weighed heavily on a lot of people. Many felt a dramatic sense of loss not altogether unlike, say, the death of Randy Rhoads. It was hard to accept. We felt like we had lost something very unique, special, profound, etc. Many metal bands come and go without notice, but Metallica was probably the greatest exception to that notion. Their decision to change, whether for better or worse, had a major impact on the metal scene. Happily, most of us have certainly moved on, though many will still ponder from time to time about what could have been had Cliff not died and had Metallica simply continued on their original path of unlimited metal glory.

 

[tazzboy]

My guess why there is hate is because during the Kill 'em All to And Just For All was nothing but speed picking and long jams which fans like and Metallica went away from that.

 

[rottingcorpse]

My guess why there is hate is because during the Kill 'em All to And Just For All was nothing but speed picking and long jams which fans like and Metallica went away from that.

Most concise point made that illustrates my reason for disliking most of the "new" Metallica.

 

[D-Rock]

That's all I hear when stubborn old Metallica fans try to justify their misguided discontent.

Why is my discontent "misguided?" As a customer do I not have the right to like what I like? If a band decides to take a substantial change in direction, why should my preferences all of a sudden change as well? I would have preferred that Metallica stay on their original course. But either they were unwilling or unable to do so. It doesn't really matter why, though some may be more upset if they thought it was done purely for the sake of money. But I think most of us are able to accept that it is a band's prerogative to change as they see fit. And if they do change, the fallout may simply be that some of their fans don't follow them or "like" them anymore. Neither side is misguided.

I think the reason some of us still even talk about Metallica's change in direction is because they were the leading metal band at the time by far. They were untouchable. For them to make the abrupt change that they did when they did was huge. It weighed heavily on a lot of people. Many felt a dramatic sense of loss not altogether unlike, say, the death of Randy Rhoads. It was hard to accept. We felt like we had lost something very unique, special, profound, etc. Many metal bands come and go without notice, but Metallica was probably the greatest exception to that notion. Their decision to change, whether for better or worse, had a major impact on the metal scene. Happily, most of us have certainly moved on, though many will still ponder from time to time about what could have been had Cliff not died and had Metallica simply continued on their original path of unlimited metal glory.

The CUSTOMER is always right! Disposable Heroes...