Why Do All Metallica Fans Hate Bob Rock?

[metalsoup]

Really now, are you suggesting people spend their money on music they're not going to listen to? In that case, hip hop here I come!

For what it's worth, I'm not saying Metallica is right or wrong for making the change they did. As mentioned previously, I support a band's prerogative to change however they see fit. Nevertheless, the direction they take will affect whether fans continue to follow them and like them and spend their money on their shows and merchandise, etc. Metallica made their decision to go one way, and some of their fans went another. Both sides are free to do what they want with their lives. (I mean, it's not like we're married, right?) And sometimes a parting of the ways becomes inevitable. I do wish things had gone differently, but c'est la vie. It certainly wouldn't have been the first time I'd said "later dudes" to some band. Indeed, I think we can all name a few bands that we said adios to. But I must admit, with Metallica it hurt a little bit more. I was really in love that time... Lot of emotions there. But you gotta move on.

 

[oldmtlhed]

Hey, we always had MEGADETH. They were more technical anyway.
All the lead guitarplayers Megadeth had over the years smoke Kirk Hammet.
And let's not even talk about the drummers.
Lars ain't even qualified to wipe-down Nick Menza's kit.

 

[metalsoup]

Yes, Megadeth has certainly produced its share of great metal, too. And that was definitely appreciated back then and over the years. On their early material, I felt their "production values" weren't quite on par with Metallica's. Metallica just had this knack for making stellar recordings and getting especially thick, organic, heavy guitar tones that oozed attitude, intensity, and supreme quality. They basically put the metal right up your #&% with unmatched style and brutality. It's all the more impressive when you see how much their tone changed from album to album. Yet every time, they magically came up with a splendid new guitar sound for the next album that was both uncompromisingly heavy and perfectly suited to the material. It was a joy and quite remarkable. During those early years, it seemed like I was always comparing other bands' guitar tones to Metallica's and essentially using Metallica's tone as a measuring stick for what constituted high-quality heavy guitar tone. Of course, intimately connected with all this is Hetfield's incomparable picking technique going hand in hand with his tone for some mesmerizing palm-muted riffing.

In Metallica's recording technique, the sum of the parts is decidedly greater than the whole. In short, those early albums were unapologetically fast, heavy, excessive, precise, and consistent. In other words, right on the money. They were the antithesis of weak. In fact, you had to work hard to try to even find anything weak on them. Just beautifully unyielding metal compositions. I remember reading something about the tracking of MOP in particular being very exacting--everything had to be just right. And it really shows on that masterpiece! Lastly, I preferred Hetfield's vocals to Mustaine's. Mustaine came across a little more whiny than I would have liked, whereas Hetfield smacked you across the face with a two-by-four and made you a believer.

 

[oldmtlhed]

Metallica just had this knack for making stellar recordings and getting especially thick, organic, heavy guitar tones that oozed attitude, intensity, and supreme quality.

I don't credit the "band" with this. I credit Flemming Rasmussen.
The way they recorded and engineered everything is what defined that sound.
We all know they LOST that cutting-edge sound when they lost Flemming.
The story is: they layered the guitar tracks. The sound was thick, tight, and compressed.
It worked, what can I say. Great stuff on RTL and MoP.
James had a good voice back on those albums. Over the years, he lost it.

Metallica changed drastically over the years. And not for the better.
It seems like the more successful they got, the worse they got.
Did it become more about the money and fame, and less about the "music"?
That's what it seems like to me.

Keep defending them if you want to, but it's a tragic tale from where I am sitting.
A long time ago, they were great. Now they just suck. And they have been sucking for years.
I would rather see a band retire, than beat a dead horse. Because all they are doing is
milking the cash cow. And that is sad.

 

[metalsoup]

Yes, Rasmussen is the guy I remember reading about who pushed for perfection. I didn't mean to imply that the band alone was responsible for those epic early albums. It seems fairly axiomatic that to get a great recording from a great band you need somebody (producer, audio engineer, etc.) who really knows how to capture that brilliance to tape/disk. Actually, I think we are in agreement in that what we perceive as Metallica's greatest work was done on those early albums and that their later material failed miserably to live up to our hopes/expectations. I suspect we're both rather narrow in our view of what constitutes quality metal. Doubtless, some would criticize that as being close-minded. While I do have some strong opinions and preferences, I don't wish to be seen as being dogmatic when expressing my staunch "disapproval" of Metallica's later work. We all have our own tastes in music, and it seems reasonable that all should be free to express their approval of any music they genuinely enjoy. After all, isn't the whole point of listening to music to enjoy it? Moreover, a little healthy debate back and forth on the merits of various artists and their efforts is a good thing. So, if somebody really digs Metallica's later work, that's fine with me. I may not share their enthusiasm, but, hey, at least it's not rap, right?!

For what it's worth, I was not always nearly so tolerant. I used to be much more of a jerk back in the '80s. If you didn't like the great metal bands back then, you could go....

 

[oldmtlhed]

To be fair and honest, my beloved SYMPHONY X have put out some albums that had lack-luster production.
Their early stuff for sure, but even "The Odyssey" has issues in the production.
I really like the overall sound of "V", "Twilight in Olympus", "Iconoclast", and "Underworld".
"Paradise Lost" is pretty good too. On "Divine Wings", the kick drums are lost in the mix.
On "The Damnation Game", the overall level is very low, but the mix is pretty good.

The thing about Symphony X is... the music is so damn good, I can easily ignore the "less than perfect" production.

 

[oldmtlhed]

OH.... before I forget.... have you guys seen this yet?

( I guess that explains it. )

 

[metalsoup]

Oh, man, that's sad.

 

[Panzer917-30]

As others have said, once Cliff was gone they needed a father figure to get everyone moving in the same direction. So for good or bad Bob Rock filled that need.

Personally I still feel sad listening to Metallica. They became something far different than they were when I knew them. Worst Metallica listening moment was being at a country/western event in the mid 90's. DJ transitions from some Garth Brooks type C&W to Enter Sandman and the crowd dynamic didn't change.

Bad joke but sad truism. Without the success of the Black Album and the acceptance of the slow dirge crunch in pop music there wouldn't be a Nickleback.

 

[blackba]

I think I was lucky in the fact that I first heard Metallica via the Black Album at age 14. It's just metal enough to get into and love the old stuff, and it's just hard rock enough to understand and love the loads. I can see hating the new stuff had I been an angry 19 year old 100% metal dude. Sucks for those guys, yet amazing for most others. Like someone else already said, no matter the mood I'm in, there are several appropriate songs.

I was about the same age when I heard the black album. Without the black album, I probably would never have heard of Metallica. I then went and checked out the older albums, with the 2nd one I picked up being Puppets, which is still my favorite Metallica album.

I don't consider myself a metalhead, so Load and ReLoad were okay by me. After that I lost interest for a while. Very pleased with Hardwired.

 

[tazzboy]

Here is the guy you mix In Justice For All and why don't hear any bass parts

 

[tubortski]

Bob Rock could produce my next record. I'd be cool with that.

 

[SBlue]

Because he isn't Bob Metal?

Best reply ever!!!

 

[K-Roll]

From Metallica's earlier works I really couldn't ever jive with Kill Em All, that was too much of a punk act back than for me. Everything after that was really great for me except the later works like St. Anger.

If anything, I'd say I prefer songs rather than albums which also means I do not have a specific tonal taste and would not bash older vs newer works. To this date I do believe they have really nailed each of their albums tone wise. Somehow you can't imagine those songs sounding different and let's be honest we're also talking about a time frame between later 80s up till post millennia and one could expect different tastes, flavors, amps, the band trying to look for more modern sounds .

Their songwriting is really what matters, I did have a hate period on Lars when i was younger cause he's a full blown coke head but damn can he write drum parts. I also kinda liked the whole Newsted era a lot more than whatever they did with Trujillo. But one thing is for sure - James sings way way better now than ever before.

 

[blackba]

Here is the guy you mix In Justice For All and why don't hear any bass parts

Cool Video. I wish he would have mixed it how it wanted too, but that is history.

 

[NinjaRaf]

I think I was lucky in the fact that I first heard Metallica via the Black Album at age 14. It's just metal enough to get into and love the old stuff, and it's just hard rock enough to understand and love the loads. I can see hating the new stuff had I been an angry 19 year old 100% metal dude. Sucks for those guys, yet amazing for most others. Like someone else already said, no matter the mood I'm in, there are several appropriate songs.

I'm in this camp, too. First thing I heard from Metallica was Until It Sleeps, when I was 12. Load was my first Metallica album, and it was massively better than anything else being played on the radio at the time. From there, I got into the earlier stuff. Puppets is the reason I am a guitar player.

I can definitely see the old-school fans' reactions point of view. Its happened to me with bands that I grew up with, so I definitely get it. But even still...the songs on Load vs shit like Creed, Godsmack, and whatever other bullshit garbage was on the radio during my middle/high school years...its not even close. Yeah, it may not be the Metallica the older guys remember, but it was the Metallica that changed things for me.

To say things like...they should have done this or that or blahblah...I think that is all a load of horseshit. They should have done exactly what they did, every fucking step of the way...because now they are millionaires...for playing instruments...In my book, decisions that lead to that result are good decisions LOL.