Why does it sound like shit live????!!!!????

[Badronald]

Too funny. I've never once NOT been able to hear my guitar at a gig. Gigging for 25+ years.
Guitar in your monitor. Hmmmm......Do you ask for drums in them too?

 

[Classic]

I agree with many of the comments in this thread around NOT putting your amp through the monitors. I play 50+ gigs a year and, on occassion, near 100. I've never gone through the monitors although did try but it 'confused' me, if that makes sense. Do you listen to your amp or the monitor? The whole point is the amp provides the fundamental sound and the desk, should you chose to use it, deals with FOH.

If I want to know how I sound in the mix I walk out front or listen at the desk. It gives all the information you need to know: balance, overall volume and importantly, your own sound.

One of the biggest pieces of information I gathered from walking out front was that the guitar sound is brighter out front than nearer the amp - just being on stage can sometimes be too close to pick this up. The balance here is getting a full sound out front but not getting lost in the stage mix. There have been some gigs I can barely hear my amp on stage but I KNOW it's clear up front.

Another learning point for the whole band was to record a practise AND a gig or two. A lot of good stuff can be picked up right there with a well placed recorder/video.

 

[D-Rock]

Hey bud, are you micing the T75 or the V30...?

 

[maddnotez]

Hey bud, are you micing the T75 or the V30...?

Thanks again for all the responses, everyone.

Drock, I THINk I had the 75 mic'd, will have to double check.

I like the mix of the X, and when we do record, I can neevr get a good sound that I like from the V30. Thats why I went 75. I think in addition to all the replies I need to just spend a few hours mic placing and figure out the sweet spot and mark it like mentioned bove.

 

[hunter]

usually it is either too much gain or too little mids or too much treble/presence

You wanna stay out of the frequencies of the drum cymbals, as this is drowning out high end heavy guitar tones.

I used to play in a band with a guy who had an AC30 and I had a 5150 half stack, he was always appearing much louder on gigs, because I had too much fizz and gain. When I started using Ch1 in crunch mode instead of Ch2, that was when things started changing around.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

watch out for the typical 57 dead center on your speaker- that always ensures abrasive noise. I lalways moved mine to the side an inch or 2. Also have slipped a $20 from time to time to "thank them" for their hard work ahead of time; sort of like protection money, lol

 

[just42dave]

strange I played harras voodoo lounge last night with a damn cyber deluxe turned up to about 3or4 its a 112 and had perfect monitor volume went out front and sounded better than any bogner etc that ive owned... Ive always been told low stage volume???

 

[jabps]

There have been some gigs I can barely hear my amp on stage but I KNOW it's clear up front.

And the very reason to use monitors "if available". Sometimes you can't hear yourself onstage...regardless of volume, sometimes it's just the acoustics of the stage. Sometimes a monitor can cure all that. Again, if a good monitoring system is available I'm using it. For years I used to walk out front for soundcheck to hear the whole thing...and yes I'd recommend doing that if your the only band or the opening act and I still do it when I can but it's no guarantee how things will sound once the club or venue fills up.

Also, if your the 3rd band on the bill and the bands are peeling backline your probably not getting a soundcheck. Most of my live playing over the last 15 years has been original music...bills are usually 3 bands deep and you've got 45 min to an hour 10 to do your thing and the backline is racked, packed and peeled off.

On the other hand if your a cover band doing 3 or 4 sets or the house band...you've got alot more control over your whole sound.

Not trying to be argumentative it's just if you can hear yourself better, your gonna play better...a good monitor is another avenue IMO.

 

[steve_k]

There have been some gigs I can barely hear my amp on stage but I KNOW it's clear up front.

And the very reason to use monitors "if available". Sometimes you can't hear yourself onstage...regardless of volume, sometimes it's just the acoustics of the stage. Sometimes a monitor can cure all that. Again, if a good monitoring system is available I'm using it. For years I used to walk out front for soundcheck to hear the whole thing...and yes I'd recommend doing that if your the only band or the opening act and I still do it when I can but it's no guarantee how things will sound once the club or venue fills up.

Also, if your the 3rd band on the bill and the bands are peeling backline your probably not getting a soundcheck. Most of my live playing over the last 15 years has been original music...bills are usually 3 bands deep and you've got 45 min to an hour 10 to do your thing and the backline is racked, packed and peeled off.

On the other hand if your a cover band doing 3 or 4 sets or the house band...you've got alot more control over your whole sound.

Not trying to be argumentative it's just if you can hear yourself better, your gonna play better...a good monitor is another avenue IMO.

Well said and spot on. And, those 3 or 4 bands are probably getting the same EQ and levels, where adjustments should be made.

 

[steve_k]

usually it is either too much gain or too little mids or too much treble/presence

You wanna stay out of the frequencies of the drum cymbals, as this is drowning out high end heavy guitar tones.

I used to play in a band with a guy who had an AC30 and I had a 5150 half stack, he was always appearing much louder on gigs, because I had too much fizz and gain. When I started using Ch1 in crunch mode instead of Ch2, that was when things started changing around.

I see people talking the talk about turning down the gain. I disagree. You got to have an amp that holds together though and can support the gain structure and not fall to pieces in the process. If the music you play is fine with a crunch mode for guitar parts, then that is cool. If it happens to need the gain and compression for whatever you happen to be playing, the amp has to step up and support it. Working through this is why things sound great in the practice room, but shit on stage.

 

[leib10]

Damn man, I wish I could've lent you one of my Ubers that night!

 

[steve_k]

Damn man, I wish I could've lent you one of my Ubers that night!

Absolutely. It is one that can carry the gain and punch in a variety of venues. The SLO is another.....

 

[robertkoa]

One thing you never get to do at practice is listening to what you sound like out front. I would say it is more of a soundman issue or his lack of spotting things in the mix. That VHT is a very punchy, uncompressed amp and may come off "stiff" in the FOH. A lot of this can be controlled with the soundman and the type system he has set up. He may need to compress the channels a bit from your cab to soften it up. Not getting a sufficient sound check is the shits too. You might try letting someone play your rig while you walk out front and listen to the band and have the sound man make some adjustments before you go on. Don't piss the fucker off though. You will be sure to sound like shit all night!

I was going to suggest having someone play your Rig and listening yourself from the front just as Steve K( and others ) above said .- maybe some Rhythm stuff-chords and just some long single notes in different registers ( low, medium, high ).

I know it's in the Fingers and the guy won't play like you - but just to check for something really obvious-

Then ideally you'd do the same with the Band and see what's going on with you listening out front at a Soundcheck/rehearsal.

I'm not an expert on this but if you guys are playing really low stuff- loud- there may be some low end cancellation/reinforcement between you and the other Guitarist and Bassist- maybe a repositioning of your cabs or a different micing technique etc?

Then as others have said-hope it's not the Sound Guy - but if you do most of what these guys say on here and it's definitely him- approach it like- "due to my cabinets- I'm wondering if you can help me with some creative EQ to help my sound."

Even if he IS the problem act like he's SOLVING the problem and thank him after he "solves it ".

 

[acalaf]

I would get rid of the 75's and stick 2 more vintage 30's in there. you might have some phase cancellation issues going on with your cab.

 

[Schaf]

I would get rid of the 75's and stick 2 more vintage 30's in there. you might have some phase cancellation issues going on with your cab.

Blasphemy I know, but I'd rather have the 75's. At least with my amp.

 

[Greazygeo]

I would get rid of the 75's and stick 2 more vintage 30's in there. you might have some phase cancellation issues going on with your cab.

Blasphemy I know, but I'd rather have the 75's. At least with my amp.

me too....V30's sound like poo.....

 

[Dr. Swamp]

75's and v30's compliment each other extremely well, no need to go changing speakers.

All the good tips have already been given. Shouldn't normally need guitar in the monitors, but sometimes based on the stage it can be helpful, but it's rare. Have someone play your rig and listen from out front or even better use a wireless. Have a hand in the micing and provide your own mic, and EQ based on what the Audience will here, not what sounds good in your practice space. EQ for the house.

 

[jabps]

There have been some gigs I can barely hear my amp on stage but I KNOW it's clear up front.

And the very reason to use monitors "if available". Sometimes you can't hear yourself onstage...regardless of volume, sometimes it's just the acoustics of the stage. Sometimes a monitor can cure all that. Again, if a good monitoring system is available I'm using it. For years I used to walk out front for soundcheck to hear the whole thing...and yes I'd recommend doing that if your the only band or the opening act and I still do it when I can but it's no guarantee how things will sound once the club or venue fills up.

Also, if your the 3rd band on the bill and the bands are peeling backline your probably not getting a soundcheck. Most of my live playing over the last 15 years has been original music...bills are usually 3 bands deep and you've got 45 min to an hour 10 to do your thing and the backline is racked, packed and peeled off.

On the other hand if your a cover band doing 3 or 4 sets or the house band...you've got alot more control over your whole sound.

Not trying to be argumentative it's just if you can hear yourself better, your gonna play better...a good monitor is another avenue IMO.

Well said and spot on. And, those 3 or 4 bands are probably getting the same EQ and levels, where adjustments should be made.

Agree...I mean I've been playing a long time and this thread really amazes me...I can't think of any guitarist that I know that doesn't at least "want" to use the monitors if they are good. I see in no way shape or form how it could hurt your performance.

You also referenced eq...so true. I mean going out and listening to the FOH is great and all but add 50 people to a room that holds 300 and you've just changed the acoustics, add 100 and changed again...and so on and so. So what you might be hearing before the room fills up is kinda mute point come showtime. I mean even for arena bands the soundcheck is more of a glorified level check, equipment check and few eq points than anything else.

I guess I'm just a bit passive here but the last thing I'm gonna do is ask the soundman to eq my guitar in the FOH to my needs. Like I said above...maybe if I'm the local cover/house band or doing 3 or 4 sets a night I'd probably be a little more involved. But when the soundmans got to deal with 3 acts and about 15 mins to clear the stage for the next band the most I'm gonna push him on is using my mic...and most good soundman with good PA's are gonna have the same mic I've got. Besides if it's a club or venue with a house PA system (which most have) and competent soundman...nobody knows that room better than him.

Oh well...I've said to much in this thread. I'll let it go.

 

[acalaf]

When I mixed speakers I was getting lost in the mix. I never get lost with 4 vintage 30's, or with 4 75's for that matter.

 

[Tone Jones]

Hey guys - long time lurker, short term poster. This topic caught my interest as I have had similar experiences in the past. My suggestions:

1. Lots of high gain amps sound good 6+ feet away but the far-field sound you're hearing is much different than what a mic up near the speaker picks up. Try dialing your amp with what the mic is hearing in mind.

2. Bass and treble frequencies are exaggerated with volume. The louder you get, the more you want to bring each down to keep your tone even across the frequency spectrum. Like others have said, mids are critical.

3. Play with the least amount of gain you can get away with. This will keep your tone from getting too compressed and has a higher likeliness of a more open and dynamic sound.

Hope this helps!