rsm
Well-known member
I think guitarists have long ago "jumped the shark" on this discussion.
Back when I had Vox AC amps with Blues, and a few Rics, I also had a BC Rich Stealth and an Engl rack rig with V30s. Putting my Rics into the Engl or putting my Stealth into a Vox; the difference mostly due to the amps, cabs, speakers not the guitars.
Music goal, neck size, playability, pickups, hardtail/trem/floating trem, etc., have more influence on why I use certain guitars and signal chains than whatever wood is used in making the guitar, especially solid body electrics.
In the early '90s, I had original Steinberger L guitar and bass, composite, active EMGs; they were very neutral sounding, and could achieve many different guitar sounds based on the signal chain; I've had a Gittler Titanium for several years, no wood, it has volume, treble and bass controls which give me a wide range of tones.
I think plugging electric guitars directly into oscilloscope, audio analyzer, spectrum analyzer, etc. and comparing the data would provide more information on the actual differences. Then using the same amp and mic , and measuring tools, for each guitar would provide an audio comparison with the supporting data.
Any tone/timber differences between the guitars, including those made by the same company, same model, same day, etc., could still be due to many factors not just the wood...i.e., nothing definitive to isolate the wood of each guitar enough to measure its impact on tone/timbre
IMO.
still it's a fun discussion, and watch the ideologies argue.
rsm
Well-known member
and to others; I've actually made it sound like a friend's tele, a ric, etc.
your money, if you want to spend it on fancy tonewoods because you believe you can hear a difference, that's your choice. I know purveyors of high end guitars appreciate it.
7704A
Well-known member
He's not the one getting tan pantsy about choice wood.
rsm
Well-known member
fancy tops and tonewood. 
"Nobody ever lost a dollar by underestimating the taste of guitarists."
"Nobody ever lost a dollar by underestimating the taste of guitarists."
Fart Ripper
New member
Some might same the same about a Variax. I haven’t heard your guitar. Do you have any clips?
With rare exception tone wood is not a major contributing factor in high end guitar pricing.
I’m not saying that other factors don’t influence the overall tone of a guitar, however the resonant characteristics of the body along with the neck provide the foundation. Although there are variances within wood species different varieties exhibit general characteristics over an average.
I’m also not saying that a composite material is incapable of producing the resonant characteristics of wood.
However for someone to believe that wood doesn’t influence the tone is a lack of understanding the overall nature of a guitar as a dynamic system.
rsm
Well-known member
Fancy tops and rare wood certainly do contribute to the cost of a guitar; especially if you don't know / measure it's impact on the tone/timbre of a solid body electric guitar in the context of a complete signal chain.
I never said wood doesn't influence guitar tone; I said it's not as significant as other factors in the overall signal chain for solid body electric guitars.
That's why Fender Custom Shop was able to build a Strat out of cardboard, that sounds like a Strat.
7704A
Well-known member
How do you figure? The physicists and engineers who make it their business to study dynamic systems, and apply it to guitars, say the opposite (regarding body wood).
Fart Ripper
New member
Source?
The resonant quality of the woods influence the frequency characteristics of a guitar. Most importantly the relationship between the neck and body. Perhaps a bit less though with a neck through. Construction method being a significant contributor.
Everything matters.
I’m not saying a rare piece of wood is going to function better than a less rare example.
7704A
Well-known member
To start with, here's a whole book on the electric guitar. Chapter 7 talks about the neck and body. https://gitec-forum-eng.de/the-book/
There's measurements of the audio spectrum, as well as measurements of what parts of a guitar are actually vibrating and transferring energy to each other using stuff like laser vibrometry. Basically no energy is transferred to the body from the strings, but the neck has non-trivial effects on how things sound/behave.
My turn. Source?
Fart Ripper
New member
Gary Brawer, and Guthrie Govan.
I’m not surprised the Strat made out of cardboard sounds like a Strat, however I bet a Strat made out of different materials is going to sound different than the one made out of cardboard. Though they will all have a “Strat” vibe.
Chapman stick being a great example. The carbonite ones sounded different than the wood ones. Though both types sounded like Chapman sticks. Same construction methods outside of materials.
Though in many ways the whole discussion is esoteric as the most important element is the person utilizing the instrument.
Fart Ripper
New member
Though the body and neck do influence each other.
Hiwatts-n-Gibsons
Well-known member
Got ya.
7704A
Well-known member
Neither of which are known for their grasp of physics. One is a guitar player, one is a luthier, neither occupation requires being a physicist. Brawer kinda gives away that he's unaware of the physics of guitars too here:
https://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/nine-things-guitarists-get-wrong
Swapping the pickups is a good first test, but numerous other things have been measured to affect the sound. His mentioned experiment only justifies the statement that "it's not just the pickups", the jump to "it's the wood" is unsupported both logically and by the measurements taken of electric guitars.
The chapman stick is a different structure though, it's basically only a neck. As previously mentioned, the neck of a guitar does affect the tone, so it wouldn't be surprising for the Chapman stick to be sensitive to that stuff. Drawing the analogy between that and the guitar body isn't justified though.
Naturally, yet here we are.
Not that I've seen in the literature, so as to allow body wood to affect tone, but I've not read everything. You have a source?
tallcoolone
Well-known member
I’ve put together at least a dozen different bolt on guitars—buying bodies from Warmoth and necks from Musikraft then sending them out for finish work at MJT. There is unfortunately no way to tell how ‘lively’ and resonant the end result will be. Some end up to be absolute dogs and others ring like a bell.
Wood matters
Wood matters
7704A
Well-known member
Unpredictability indicates there's some difference somewhere.
There are more things than just the wood that can vary.
Fart Ripper
New member
Totally agree.
The main issue between the body and neck is they function as unit. Occasionally they can vibrate together in such a way that cancels or excites certain tones.
I’m only saying that tonewood is not a zero contributor not necessarily the most important element.
Construction method being pretty significant.
Pickups and strings don’t coexist without other influences in a vacuum.
I thank you for the link you provided earlier, however I’m too lazy to re-research first sources today.
pipelineaudio
Active member
Check out the parallels between the magic tonewood claims and the magic DAW sound claims. Its so often the same people.
Like the great Christopher Hitchens said "if it can be asserted without evidence, it can be dismissed without evidence". Luckily in the magic DAW sound subject, the null test was very easy and quick to dispel that nonsense, but still droves of the faithful still believe it
thegame
Well-known member
@pipedream audio still refusing to acknowledge the Warmoth video lol
I guess it’s more fun to debate than concede
I guess it’s more fun to debate than concede