rsm
Well-known member
reminds me of the old "less filling, tastes great" debate
pipelineaudio
Active member
I don't think there's anything *wrong* with that video. It just depends what you are trying to show. In the video itself you hear different pitches based on how hard he hits it and what he hits it with. And hopefully nobody really needs to point out just how much that dampening he does changes the results
Very cool video! I don't see how it refutes anything I said
JohnnyGtar
Well-known member
7704A
Well-known member
Why is that relevant? What matters is having accurate measurements of how guitars behave, and what we hear, and being able to use those two things to build a predictive model that matches reality. If you have evidence from your numerous builds that shows it must be the wood, then I'm all ears. So far though you haven't presented any, or do you have a good critique for the alternate explanation I provided for some bodies seeming to be duds?
Based on what evidence? Some vague gesturing towards the number of guitars you've built isn't satisfactory since it leaves out so many details. What specifically convinces you it has to be the wood? What was your methodology?
And what would this accomplish? Genuine question. Guitar players can tell me about their impressions of the various guitars they've played and trends they've noticed, which may provide some hints at areas to investigate, so that at least is worthwhile. But the lack of controlled testing environments puts a limit on the usefulness this info.
-----
Which doesn't prove that body wood matters. Among other things, you need to also show that the body resonances absorb non-negligible amounts of energy from the strings. They don't.
I think someone, maybe you, posted a paper where they simulated this. The existing literature on guitar physics deals with this and/or similar things like the resonant frequencies of an assembled guitar. The argument is not that the body doesn't have resonances, it's that they do not matter because they absorb effectively zilch energy from the strings. Check out the book I've linked earlier in the thread, they have tons of measurements on real guitars looking at everything from what affects how hard it is to bend a string to how much energy travels from the strings through the bridge to the body.
Merely being coupled does not mean it significantly effects things though. The nature and degree of coupling matters. The book I mentioned tests and measures that.
-----
From a cursory search I haven't found a full copy of that paper. I'll have to check some libraries later. From the abstract though, it looks like they just took a chunk of wood and excited it (phrasing...) and looked at the resonant frequencies of each chunk. This falls short of showing that body wood matters though. For one, it sounds like they didn't do modal analysis on an actual guitar, just chunks of wood, which will vibrate differently than a guitar. Two, they did not examine how much energy is actually absorbed by body resonances in an electric guitar and the resulting (in)audible effects. As I mentioned in another post, the argument isn't that the body doesn't have modes of vibration, it's that they don't matter.
-----
So... A bunch of opinions stated without evidence?
-----
The strings have been measured to pass approximately zilch to the body. Any vibrations that get through to the body will be attenuated by heat losses inside the body and/or radiation off the body's surface. Of whatever is left, approximately zilch has been measured to get passed back to the strings. So you end up with a fraction of zilch times zilch, so there is no appreciable effect on tone at all.
-----
I don't recall anyone arguing that only the strings and pickups matter, I'm definitely not. I'm arguing that the wood of a solid guitar body doesn't matter.
Last edited:
Fart Ripper
Member
Fart Ripper
Member
Including the mass and density?
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
Everything plays a role in the tone generated. Wood density, wood type, body thickness, body shape.
This is amusing though. The same guys who say globe earth is obvious are in here saying body wood doesn't matter.
7704A
Well-known member
Yes.
Sure, but not all roles are equally big. Body wood's role is basically non-existent.
Wherever the evidence points: whatever best models reality. If you have evidence that strongly indicates the body wood does matter, I'd love to hear it.
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
Which reality though? At home, playing by yourself or in a live setting? Clean, edge of breakup, mild OD, or super saturation? Set some parameters. The more you junk up the core clean tone with gain and effects the less those differences will come into play sonically IME.
I can switch between a Sheraton Pro with Epi pickups and a genuine Gibson ES with 57 classics through my rig in a live setting and no one will know the difference yet at home there is quite a bit of tonal variation there. Does that make body/neck wood and even construction irrelevant? That would be a pretty obstinate position to take. So we're talking about to which degree it will become noticeable. I def disagree with the "basically non-existent" premise. There is something that is imparted into the final tone of an instrument based on type of and the particular piece of wood. How much it will effect the outcome in a given setting is what you should be asking.
K
Kraku
Member
I'm surprised that people still in 2025 believe in the fairy tales that the wood type used in the electric guitar has any effect on the tone of the guitar. To share some light into that confusion, I'll share this video here so you can get a better understanding what makes a difference for the electric guitar sound:
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
I can provide links to youtube flat earth videos if you think it'll help.
K
Kraku
Member
How about you actually watch the video?
Fart Ripper
Member
That video has to be one of the most frequently misunderstood ones that ever comes up in these discussions. Jim Lil without realizing it basically built a steel guitar. Which a Telecaster evolved from. Of course it’s going to sound similar. Let me know when that video approximates a Les Paul.
He didn’t prove anything related to the point he’s trying to make scientifically.
dead-pan
Well-known member
Markedman
Well-known member
One of the major reason I bought my metal guitar is this video. If I ever get into a tone wood discussion, I'll break the metal guitar out and end all the arguments right there and then.
I don't give a shit about most specs on a guitar. I've no opinion on the type of wood, scale length, fret type or size, radius, weight or shape.
I do care about pick ups and strings.
Neck dive is an immediate no.
Guitar buzz when play unplugged means the guitar is not good. The buzz can be fixed sometimes but most times it's because the guitar is made of shit, not a string or tuning peg problem.
I've owned dozens of good guitars and price isn't a big deal breaker in quality. I like a tight sounding, like a piano, guitar. The Steinbergers I own are the tightest ever. I paid $525.00 for a Newburgh GR4 model. The guitar is a 10, absolutely perfect in every way.
Knaggs is my favorite player guitar. It is better in every way than any guitar I've ever played and would sell everything I own to have one Knaggs.
Markedman
Well-known member
WOW!
A Les Paul's tone is in the pick up, not the shape! Please!
A guitar's shape does not affect the tone in any way. That is fact. (Did you watch the video?) Ever change pick ups?
I wouldn't own a Les Paul that quacks like duck which is what most people like in a Les Paul, and that's what is expected. My Les Paul ain't quacking. It is because I have pick ups that don't sound like a duck quaking. If I put the quacking Les Paul pick ups in a Strat shape guitar it would quack like a LP.
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
I've seen it before. It doesn't prove/disprove anything. Wood choice and a particular piece will exert some level influence on the finished tone, even on a solidbody electric guitar. How much is the subject of debate. It is funny to watch dudes who use gobs of gain as their core tone argue about this though.
Aluminum neck pedal steels generally sound different than wood necked pedal steels so there's my wild card I'm throwing into the convo. You won't find a stringed instrument player more anal about their clean tone than a steeler.
Fart Ripper
Member
Why don’t you swap the pickups out of a Les Paul into a neck made out of balsa wood and a body in whatever shape you prefer made out of a 1x4 piece of plywood, and let me know how you fare.
I’m not saying certain alternative materials to wood can’t produce good results, however their characteristics do matter.
7704A
Well-known member
All the above.
What convinces you of that? Specifically for the body.
Indeed, context is key. My understanding of the evidence is that the answer is "The body wood does not affect the outcome in any playing context."
It's been mentioned before in this thread, but that video fails to control for all the variables and so only shows that guitars with wood made from different bodies can sound different, it doesn't show that it's the wood causing it them to sound different.
Pedal steels are structurally different than solid body guitars, they appear to mostly just neck. Even on an electric guitar, the neck is a different structure than the body. So the analogy can't be drawn between pedal steels and solid guitar bodies. There may be a valid one between pedal steels and guitar necks though. My understanding of the existing literature is that the construction of the neck does matter for a guitar's tone, which is why I've been careful to specify that I'm talking about body wood.
Do you have evidence of this? How'd you come to this conclusion?
Last edited:
K