Wtf is it with L. P ''s

[Anonymous]

FWIW, if any of you ever want a killer Les Paul and want to make sure it's not a dud, I can only say incredible things about Jim and Janine from Route 66 Classic Guitars (http://www.route66classicguitars.com)

I've had the pleasure of picking up a couple Lesters from them - unplayed - unseen - and each one came PERFECTLY set up, and to this day, are my fave players out of the bunch. They just came out of case ready to go, and felt perfect in my hands. Jim knows his woods, his tones, the feel, the 'everything'.

So just saying - this isn't GC or MF - this is route66, and they know their stuff

Mojo

i have a question regarding this...so, does the dealer have the say whether they keep a guitar sent to them or not? or do they order them all custom? im not really following the train of thought here....

what difference is a dud if it's at route 66 guitars, or in some obscure US or canadian shop?

and, honestly, if gibson is doing this type of bullshit, then, well,.....it's bullshit. what happpened to the days of them just building a quality product without playing the game with people regarding preferential treatment?

 

[Erock]

I have no real experience with LPs at all. Played my friends fathers real 58 LP many years ago, and thought it felt bulky and uncomfortable to play. Of course, i had no idea the significance of the guitar i was playing at the time. Played a few more over the years, and never really bonded with any. Just a superstrat guy, that's what I learned on and felt comfortable with. FF to this month, and I got a 2012 standard (08 spec) in a trade, and I absolutely love it. I've owned a lot of high end guitars, even sc shapes, and didn't bond like this. If this is the dregs of all LPs, I can't wait to play a good one!

 

[Ventura]

solution - commission custom build, luthier resumes and interviews will begin.

UNCLE MO, starts and never an end, change the pots, caps., try and try different pups. tuners, new nut . new tail pieces, shave the neck, re-carve.
Might as well just have it built to specs.

I know a GREAT lil' cabinet maker/wood worker in yer province, Good Sir

i have a question regarding this...so, does the dealer have the say whether they keep a guitar sent to them or not? or do they order them all custom? im not really following the train of thought here....

what difference is a dud if it's at route 66 guitars, or in some obscure US or canadian shop?

and, honestly, if gibson is doing this type of bullshit, then, well,.....it's bullshit. what happpened to the days of them just building a quality product without playing the game with people regarding preferential treatment?

I'm not sure how to answer this other than the fact that whenever I've called these cats with respect to wanting a specific Les Paul, they've gotten it for me - or even had it in stock - and they're all amazing players. Jim speaks very candidly about what he has on the shop floor, and when he says it's "magic", it means it is. I'm not sure if they "send back" any lemons or the like; I just know that when he says "it's a beautiful player", it means it really is a beautiful player. When he says "just check out the resonance with that one", sure as shit, the thing just hums like none other with a simple chord. When he says "hear this to believe it", he's right, it sounds 'perfect'.

He and I have spoken about the fact that many things mean different things to different people. We've agreed that he and I seek the 'exact' same things in Les Pauls. So perhaps this is a head start in the success record we've had to date.

 

[pstar]

Uncle mo,
Cabinet maker as in liquor cabinets , hahaha
Oh speaker cab.
Do tell

 

[Anonymous]

solution - commission custom build, luthier resumes and interviews will begin.

UNCLE MO, starts and never an end, change the pots, caps., try and try different pups. tuners, new nut . new tail pieces, shave the neck, re-carve.
Might as well just have it built to specs.

I know a GREAT lil' cabinet maker/wood worker in yer province, Good Sir

i have a question regarding this...so, does the dealer have the say whether they keep a guitar sent to them or not? or do they order them all custom? im not really following the train of thought here....

what difference is a dud if it's at route 66 guitars, or in some obscure US or canadian shop?

and, honestly, if gibson is doing this type of bullshit, then, well,.....it's bullshit. what happpened to the days of them just building a quality product without playing the game with people regarding preferential treatment?

I'm not sure how to answer this other than the fact that whenever I've called these cats with respect to wanting a specific Les Paul, they've gotten it for me - or even had it in stock - and they're all amazing players. Jim speaks very candidly about what he has on the shop floor, and when he says it's "magic", it means it is. I'm not sure if they "send back" any lemons or the like; I just know that when he says "it's a beautiful player", it means it really is a beautiful player. When he says "just check out the resonance with that one", sure as shit, the thing just hums like none other with a simple chord. When he says "hear this to believe it", he's right, it sounds 'perfect'.

He and I have spoken about the fact that many things mean different things to different people. We've agreed that he and I seek the 'exact' same things in Les Pauls. So perhaps this is a head start in the success record we've had to date.

thanks man! it sounds like he knows his guitar speak, as do you.

i've always wondered though, if they get an OBVIOUSLY shitty one in the store....what exactly DOES happen to it...do they push it as the 2nd coming of the holy grail...or, do they try a different setup to see if it responds....if it's a dud in all aspects...what happens..they just let it sit til it sells?

 

[Ventura]

Uncle mo,
Cabinet maker as in liquor cabinets , hahaha
Oh speaker cab.
Do tell

PM'd

thanks man! it sounds like he knows his guitar speak, as do you.

i've always wondered though, if they get an OBVIOUSLY shitty one in the store....what exactly DOES happen to it...do they push it as the 2nd coming of the holy grail...or, do they try a different setup to see if it responds....if it's a dud in all aspects...what happens..they just let it sit til it sells?

I really don't know what happens to them. I've checked out R66's stock on line, and it always seems they've got "good" guitars, never run of the mill axes. If it's a Strat, it's a custom build. If it's a 335, it's pristine. If it's a Tele, it's usually a former country star's guitar. If it's a Lester, it's either a special order, non-VOS, Yamano select, or the like. They just have the one's that are a) not as common, and b) seemingly hand tested.

Perhaps I oughta keep throwing cabbage their way until I get a dud

Avagoodone Gents!!

 

[pstar]

uncle mo,
hennessy xo only in my liquor cab.
already talks underway.
Meeting to happen, when schedules premitting.

 

[Ventura]

uncle mo,
hennessy xo only in my liquor cab.
already talks underway.
Meeting to happen, when schedules premitting.

Nice!!!!

 

[mdc1mdc11]

FWIW, if any of you ever want a killer Les Paul and want to make sure it's not a dud, I can only say incredible things about Jim and Janine from Route 66 Classic Guitars (http://www.route66classicguitars.com)

I've had the pleasure of picking up a couple Lesters from them - unplayed - unseen - and each one came PERFECTLY set up, and to this day, are my fave players out of the bunch. They just came out of case ready to go, and felt perfect in my hands. Jim knows his woods, his tones, the feel, the 'everything'.

So just saying - this isn't GC or MF - this is route66, and they know their stuff

Mojo

Agree, here and I forgot to thank you Ventura for turning me on to Route66 last year. Bought a Custom Shop 59 last year and it is a great guitar. The other thing to consider is what has been said earlier in that sometimes its the player and not the guitar in terms of what they should be using.

Great people and they seem to have an approach to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

[stratotone]

bought an LP friday new from GC, checked it out first... was and is a great guitar. Gibson makes good stuff, you just have to be careful and go through a few sometimes. When I bought my SG faded, I went through EVERY SG they had in stock (around 9 or so) and the faded had the best neck/build quality.

Pete

 

[guitarnie]

If you blew through 20 Les Paul's and not a single one fit; you don't need a Les Paul. Talk shit about a 2012 LP and then wait till 2062 and see what is up. (I won't be there)

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Yeah those are my Heritage Gary Moore Signatures, from 1991, both ordered from new, one of each series of 75. I have them listed for sale and an English GM fan is in the process of buying my Almond burst, from the rarer second series.
This thread is no real news to me, it's in many cases not just a poor guitar dealer set up as far as playability.
When I bought the two Heritage's in 1991, the Amber one was at Manny's and I had already ordered one from the factory. This ended up being from the second series of 75, the Almond burst, which Gary had originally specified as the color he wanted. Read my history of the Heritage GM's from the Lord of the Strings GM European fan site:
http://www.garymoorefc.com/en/guitars_heritage
The first two pictured belong to the biggest Heritage dealer Jay Wolfe of Jupiter, Flo rida, my Amber has moore spectacular color and flame, but have had to let her go.
Both these guitars were superbly made overall, just the finishing on the boards and the fretting, nuts were less than Chinese quality, curious for two of the same specialty top of the line models back then.
High spots in the finger boards, uneven frets, just shi**y finishing in the playability department forced me as a player to have to alter rare guitars back then.
I have never regretted it though.
The horror stories I have read of the Gibson's which automatically carry such a high premium based on the name alone, which in many, many cases they do not deserve.
I had both guitars expertly 'fixed' by the late great John Zeidler, sadly to pass at a very young age to leukemia.
I had him fit proper Gotoh Nashville's and stop tail pieces, he suggested the DiMarzio stainless steel fret wire. This was pretty rad in 1991 to have but these guitars once having the boards leveled properly and refretted correctly and proper nuts fitted, play like dreams.
I don't trust many major guitar manufacturers and people have been amazed when I say I have never been tempted to have any Historics, ect.
I have had two 1954 LP Juniors and a 1952/56 LP Goldtop conversion, all sold now, but unless another '50's Gibson would find it's way to me...no thanks!
A guitar repairman here in Phoenix worked at the Gibbo Custom shop and he had horrific tales to tell and he wrote a 6 page letter to Henry J. when he resigned.
Nothing surprises me anymore in guitar tales.
It is sad but true about the quality control issues, with Gibson in particular.
I'm sure the odd PRS and other booteek geetars have issues as well, but Fender seem to have become more uniform.
I called Heritage on the issues at the time but was loath to return any of them as I was less than impressed with the way they went out.
Fortunately my great friend the recently transplanted Texan Matt Lee Phillips, who now resides in LA and will be at the upcoming LA Amp show as a visitor. His company Bunkman guitars has made hand built guitars of the finest quality out of his home garage for years.
Matt already built my killer SS replica Hamer SS-3 white/black for me, with the upgrade of the EBMMEVH asymmetrical neck profile on it's maple flamed capped neck.
http://www.bunkmanguitars.com/
All my future guitars once I can ever buy anything again will be from Matt, that includes San Dimas style Charvel's, ect.
It is terrible what is going on and as a regular contributor to both of the major LP forums, I can only shake my head.
I met Edwin Wilson and Tom Murphy in Chicago back in 1993, when they had the some pre-prototypes of the Hysterical series, a 1957 Goldtop in particular that had a huge ding in the lower bout, but it was one of the finest sounding and playing LP's ever, includes real '58 Goldtop and many real '50's LP's I have played since. Could have bought it for $2K back then, but was a poor student nurse and could not. Tom played her at the show jam, "Sweet Home Chicago" of course and that guitar had a fat neck and just was incredible, I will never forget it.
They had a R9 body on display in white with penciled in dimensions and they had high aspirations for this upcoming series.
Many years later, some great guitars have been produced in that series, but the large after market in Historic Makeovers, shows that everyone can do better with more time and motivation and more money.. .
I find the twenty in a row hard to swallow as well, but, so many virtually unplayable guitars are shipped out for big bucks and it is sad. Certain customers it must be said don't get these poorly finished guitars, I won't name names, but look on TLPF and you will see collectors who would never be shipped a substandard piece...sad.
Atomic Playdough

 

[bravedude2]

operator error.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah those are my Heritage Gary Moore Signatures, from 1991, both ordered from new, one of each series of 75. I have them listed for sale and an English GM fan is in the process of buying my Almond burst, from the rarer second series.
This thread is no real news to me, it's in many cases not just a poor guitar dealer set up as far as playability.
When I bought the two Heritage's in 1991, the Amber one was at Manny's and I had already ordered one from the factory. This ended up being from the second series of 75, the Almond burst, which Gary had originally specified as the color he wanted. Read my history of the Heritage GM's from the Lord of the Strings GM European fan site:
http://www.garymoorefc.com/en/guitars_heritage
The first two pictured belong to the biggest Heritage dealer Jay Wolfe of Jupiter, Flo rida, my Amber has moore spectacular color and flame, but have had to let her go.
Both these guitars were superbly made overall, just the finishing on the boards and the fretting, nuts were less than Chinese quality, curious for two of the same specialty top of the line models back then.
High spots in the finger boards, uneven frets, just shi**y finishing in the playability department forced me as a player to have to alter rare guitars back then.
I have never regretted it though.
The horror stories I have read of the Gibson's which automatically carry such a high premium based on the name alone, which in many, many cases they do not deserve.
I had both guitars expertly 'fixed' by the late great John Zeidler, sadly to pass at a very young age to leukemia.
I had him fit proper Gotoh Nashville's and stop tail pieces, he suggested the DiMarzio stainless steel fret wire. This was pretty rad in 1991 to have but these guitars once having the boards leveled properly and refretted correctly and proper nuts fitted, play like dreams.
I don't trust many major guitar manufacturers and people have been amazed when I say I have never been tempted to have any Historics, ect.
I have had two 1954 LP Juniors and a 1952/56 LP Goldtop conversion, all sold now, but unless another '50's Gibson would find it's way to me...no thanks!
A guitar repairman here in Phoenix worked at the Gibbo Custom shop and he had horrific tales to tell and he wrote a 6 page letter to Henry J. when he resigned.
Nothing surprises me anymore in guitar tales.
It is sad but true about the quality control issues, with Gibson in particular.
I'm sure the odd PRS and other booteek geetars have issues as well, but Fender seem to have become more uniform.
I called Heritage on the issues at the time but was loath to return any of them as I was less than impressed with the way they went out.
Fortunately my great friend the recently transplanted Texan Matt Lee Phillips, who now resides in LA and will be at the upcoming LA Amp show as a visitor. His company Bunkman guitars has made hand built guitars of the finest quality out of his home garage for years.
Matt already built my killer SS replica Hamer SS-3 white/black for me, with the upgrade of the EBMMEVH asymmetrical neck profile on it's maple flamed capped neck.
http://www.bunkmanguitars.com/
All my future guitars once I can ever buy anything again will be from Matt, that includes San Dimas style Charvel's, ect.
It is terrible what is going on and as a regular contributor to both of the major LP forums, I can only shake my head.
I met Edwin Wilson and Tom Murphy in Chicago back in 1993, when they had the some pre-prototypes of the Hysterical series, a 1957 Goldtop in particular that had a huge ding in the lower bout, but it was one of the finest sounding and playing LP's ever, includes real '58 Goldtop and many real '50's LP's I have played since. Could have bought it for $2K back then, but was a poor student nurse and could not. Tom played her at the show jam, "Sweet Home Chicago" of course and that guitar had a fat neck and just was incredible, I will never forget it.
They had a R9 body on display in white with penciled in dimensions and they had high aspirations for this upcoming series.
Many years later, some great guitars have been produced in that series, but the large after market in Historic Makeovers, shows that everyone can do better with more time and motivation and more money.. .
I find the twenty in a row hard to swallow as well, but, so many virtually unplayable guitars are shipped out for big bucks and it is sad. Certain customers it must be said don't get these poorly finished guitars, I won't name names, but look on TLPF and you will see collectors who would never be shipped a substandard piece...sad.
Atomic Playdough

great post dude!

 

[MetalTerrorist]

Played over 20 new l.p's, std. , c.s, r9, all were junk. Unbelievable garbage.
Will be looking at the alternatives.

I really want to like LP's too. After all, they're legendary and they sound very distinct. However, every time I've played a new one, they are severely underwhelming. They don't compete with lesser priced US PRS's. It's not just that I don't like that particular model of LP. If the action doesn't suck, it doesn't have that resonance, feel. They feel like any given Epiphone or Schecter just priced with an extra digit left of the decimal point. I've played a few old LP's that were stellar but nothing from the last 15 years has been more than 'Meh'. I sure as hell wouldn't pay $3k for any I've played. Maybe the custom shop stuff is better?

 

[LP Freak]

operator error.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[metalmaniac93]

Gibson LPs are severely overrated for the price and quality especially the newer ones. The older ones that were made in Kalamazoo, MI are the only ones that I would buy, if I was looking for a LP, but I have a Heritage.