XTC 20thA or Axe Fx3?

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Catthan

Catthan

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Not a discussion about how good modelers are or aren’t, rather a what would you do given the circumstances.

The circumstances..
I play through a load box and IRs and monitor via Slate VSX headphones.
Only amps that have ‘transcended’ the something is missing issue is my previous Gowers and my current Wiz MC1 100W..

Suppose I could get a Bogner XTC 20th A or an Axe.
The 20th anni is one amp I hear great things about and never got to try. However, I sold 3 101Bs in the past and thinking if I liked them so much I’d have kept the last one over the Wizer. Still, the xtc is an addictive tone and feel.

A real amp in my setup will sound good through only some IRs vs most amps in the Axe will sound good paired with dedicated IRs of which I got loads.
I think playing feel can be improved in the big Axe by adjusting the input settings.
Plus, many of the user presets in the FAS community are better than I ever got from the real amps when I owned them including the lower gain big crunch tones which I always struggle to dial in with my setup.

I did try the FM3 and compared to my Wizard it felt like the plastic sex doll equivalent but that’s bc the Wizer is a beast; many real amps can be made to sound or feel shite in a setup like mine so I don’t see this as a lack of the axe. The Wizard stays of course.

OTOH the Bogner is, well.. a fockin 120W proper head of an amp and I’m always drawn to them even though they don’t stay. The 20th is one I’ve not owned and supposed to be the shit if you’re not too purist about blue channel authenticity. Given past experience it just seems that I do many good amps like this a disservice..

Blasting through a proper cab and getting amp in the room vibes is not a practical reality for me and doesn’t weigh in the discussion.

Why not both you might ask.. well,, if I were to gape my credit card I’d get another Tyler bc of the headstock among other things. Plus they hold value better than, say, Andersons..

Looking for interesting perspectives, things I might have not thought for either option.
 
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If you're already using a load box and IRs, then get the Axe FX. That's the ideal use case for it, it's tone and feel are spot on when compared to that, and it has the option to use the impedance curve of load boxes or real amps internally for even more control. And it has some XTC models build in.
 
After reading your current situation, the Axe FX-3 is the clear choice.

And if I was in your position, I'd be posting clips of my new XTC.

FWIW - I owned an XTC-A (6L6) - sold it - and still regret letting it go.
 
Owned both but did not use the 20th with ir/load box
Currently have fm9 thru clrs and the 20th xtc models are pretty good
On paper I would say axefx but since you didnt like the fm3 then go with the xtc
 
roodboy said:
Owned both but did not use the 20th with ir/load box
Currently have fm9 thru clrs and the 20th xtc models are pretty good
On paper I would say axefx but since you didnt like the fm3 then go with the xtc
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I did like the FM3 enough to give the big boi a try. Only complaint was that the feel which I think can be improved on the AXE (and FM9). something about the input settings being less tweakable on the FM3
 
If you didn’t like XTCs before you likely don’t now. I vote AX3. Bogners are sitting right now and seem to be hard to sell for some reason.
 
I ran a Kemper for a few years, and have an XTC 20th 6L6.

Real amp all day long and twice on Sunday.
 
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Had a 101b and sold it for an AxeFX. Sold the AxeFX and now have 3 bogners to include a 101b again. Only way I’d say AxeFX is if you need the effects too, because they really are good. Otherwise get the amp.
 
Catthan said:
I did like the FM3 enough to give the big boi a try. Only complaint was that the feel which I think can be improved on the AXE (and FM9). something about the input settings being less tweakable on the FM3
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sounds like the auto impedance thing fm3 doesnt have that
I notice it with fuzz pedals
Its easier to flip an axefx than an xtc if you dont like it
 
Catthan said:
Blasting through a proper cab and getting amp in the room vibes is not a practical reality for me and doesn’t weigh in the discussion.
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This is where real amps shine and are above modelers.
So i would say buy a AxeFx. In your situation it just makes more sense. I love my AxeFx and use it quite often. But i also have 10+ tube amps and love those as well. But you really need to move some air to enable them to outshine a modeler.
 
I have A/B'd a bunch of different amps through a Suhr Reactive load into an IR and compared them to the Axe counterpart amp model through the same IR, and it's very hard to distinguish between them using headphones. I get the "amp in the room" problem that some folks have but for recording or low volume playing through monitors or headphones, it doesn't make sense to have the loaded down tube amp if that's all that you're going to use it for.
 
I would just get good plugins and go straight in to the computer if this is the case. Why hassle with a clunky piece of hardware in between? This is where I always land though, if you’re looking for the amp feel and experience it can’t really be replicated and if you’re looking for the workflow and flexibility, go plugins. Modeler hardware only makes sense if you are traveling, touring, or gigging where you need ultra quiet stage which is something else entirely.
 
I've owned the XTC 20th Anniversary with 6L6 tubes. One of my very favorite tube amps I have owned. It was a Swiss Army Knife and did it all very well. I think you would be very happy with it if you like the previous XTC versions. I have a couple of other clips but here is one I recorded about 12 years ago with this amp:



I have also owned an Axe-FX III and an FM9. Great units that sound great with lots of deep diving. I owned a Kemper toaster from 2012 to 2020 (that's when I bought the Fractal). I recently bought a Kemper Stage and it's great! The one thing I like about Kemper over the Fractal units is that I don't have to use IRs anymore. I don't have a problem with IRs at all. I always felt that whenever a new batch of IRs was released, they were always the next-gen versions, and I could never hear a difference. Again, just a me thing. Here is a clip I recorded with my FM9. I had a friend of mine sing on this cover and I recorded all of the bass and guitars. I used a Friedman Smallbox model that was created by Pete Thorn that I tweaked a bit for my needs.



All of that being said, the Fractals are great. So are the Kempers. I'm sure the QC and Helix are too. Best of luck on your search!
 
One thing to consider is if amps have a lot of different ways to shape feel and tone, like the XTCs do with all of their options, it's hard to capture all of that digitally. I'm not sure how the Axe FX models compensate for those switchable options in some way, outside of their normal tweakable options. But you do get more amps available than just the 20th XTC to try out too, along with all of the effects.

Nothing wrong with real amps into reactive loads or attenuators, been using them for years. I do think they feel fine to play with those, but I only have a Kemper to compare to.

Maybe just go with whatever you can find a better deal on.
 
For what your needs are the Axe FX is probably a logical choice. But you can never go wrong with a Bogner.
I would much rather fiddle with all those knobs on the Ecstasy than open another menu on a screen. Plus the Bogner will never need software updates or rebooting.

The AxeFx looks and feels like an appliance and the Bogner an instrument.
 
Warning: Incoming novel. You're between two excellent options, really.


A year or two ago, I bought an Ecstasy 20th 6L6 and had it for about a week before (stupidly) returning it. I returned it because its Blue channel just flat out isn't as good as the 101B's Blue channel. I was stuck on the notion that because it said "Ecstasy" on the front, the Blue channel mattered more than anything else.

BUT, a few months ago, after realizing I had been missing the XTC 20th for more than a year since I returned it, I picked up another one and it's here to stay, BECAUSE...

Red Channel:
Absolutely top tier. As good as anything I've ever played. Believe it or not, it kind of sits somewhere between a 5150 and Recto, but it's a bit clearer with more string detail in the highs, and with just a bit more squish or bounce in the feel in a good way. Also, with the right boost, it's easily as aggressive and crushing as a 5150 or Recto. People say Ecstasies are too dark. Not the 20th. It can be dialed very dark and it's honestly one of the best dark high gain tones I've heard, but the XTC 20th also sounds awesome when you brighten it up because its top end is a bit crispier than the 101B.

Green Channel:
One of the best clean channels I've ever heard from a channel switcher. It's basically a Fender Blackface front end. Max out the channel volume and use Gain as your volume control and you've got a Fender in 100w 6L6 head format.

Blue Channel Plexi Mode:
And finally, while the Blue channel in standard mode just isn't as good as a 101B's Blue channel, the Ecstasy 20th's Blue Plexi mode with a slight boost in front is honest to god the best modern medium gain just-over-edge-of-breakup tone I have ever heard or played anywhere. Just phenomenal. It's one of the most addictive and expressive sounds I've ever heard from an amp.


My original tunnel vision caused me to return the Ecstasy 20th amp because its Blue channel wasn't quite as good as the 101B's Blue channel. Don't fall into that trap. While that may be true, all the other modes in the amp are absolutely top tier. The one I have now isn't going anywhere for as long as I can help it. It is absolutely a lifer amp.



HOWEVER...



The Axe-Fx is easily the single most capable, most encyclopedic and most total solution for the electric guitar to have been produced in any format, ever. I'll also say that through the Axe-Fx, I have learned more about guitar tone than in all my years of forum reading and tube amp playing combined. I absolutely cannot recommend a Fractal flagship modeler enough. If there are effects you want but don't have, the Axe-Fx has them in there, either directly or with some creativity can be dialed in, almost guaranteed.

Personally I think some of the Axe's amp models in some cases sound EXACTLY like the real amps they model, and in other cases they sound close but not exact. Each model is kind of its own thing. They may or may not sound and feel exactly like your personal amp but I can't say they're worse. I will say there are plenty of Fractal's models that are "as good as" their corresponding tube amp in terms of both sound and feel though, aboslutely. With the right understanding and implementation of IR's, it is completely convincing. With the right poweramp and cab, it is completely convincing.

They're also wildly flexible in terms of routing. I've setup a single Axe-Fx III to do full WDW with the ability to separately blend the dry signal into the wet cabs and/or the wet signal into the dry cabs if I wanted AND send a separate fully mixed stereo signal to FoH all in a single patch, with the abiltiy to seamlessly toggle any wet effect at will without impacting the dry signal, all with zero phase issues or anything.


You really can't go wrone with either. Sorry if this makes the choice harder lol.
 
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