Zakk's tone on That Metal Show

[Soulstealer]

Everyone else at the time was 3 notes. Those were much easier to do, but the seemingly simple 2-note pentatonic runs, played as fast and clean as Zakk does them, were far trickier. I give him tons of respect for that, however basic it may seem to some of you. There are legions of guys who shred through scales with 3-per-string patterns, but far fewer who truely have a handle on blazing through 2-per-string runs.

Three notes per string is what people were doing when Zakk came out because the two note per string licks were left behind in the hands of the 70's players by guys like Eddie, Randy and Yngwie. 3 notes allowed you to play more musically IMO. Two note per string fast picked runs always left you with a downstroke while moving to the next string. I don't think that was harder. I think that is much easier for alternate picking. The fact that no one else was doing 2 notes per string anymore wasn't because it was harder, it was because people were trying to play a Paul Gilbert lick from 1987 in 1987 and Zakk was trying to do a 1972 Frank Marino lick in 1987.

Well, I was backwards then, because it was harder for me. It seemed harder to find players who did it cleanly, too. Eric Johnson, Steve Stevens occassionally (Look In Her Eyes), Jake was decent on Badlands stuff like Shine On....can't think of many others. It wasn't just the pentatonic runs, though....Zakk kills it on those Miracle Man arpeggios, the Devil's Daughter hybrid picking, etc, even some newer stuff that I've heard. He's got a wicked right hand. Yeah, he's like a lot of players as they age, though....the push to explore and expand their licks maybe falls away a bit. You get a lot of pet licks and comfortable stuff. I don't know, I don't buy his records anymore, but I still like hearing Zakk play here and there. I like the fire and aggression he plays with. The squealies are funny to me, too.

 

[Greazygeo]

Note selection? Really?. Were there some backing tracks he was playing over that would put anything he played in a context?

You guys are complaining about Zakk being Zakk and doing his thing? Not that I'm a fan of his tones, but they are his and he appears to like it. Looked like he was having fun and just noodling.

 

[V-Type]

Going too amend my offending post.
Zakks note selection was on and in key and better than other recent Zakk vids imo.
A 2nd and 3rd listen revealed how inaudible I find his drenched gain/effects chain too be.
I guess the noise between the notes "breath" is my real disdain.
Also I wonder if Zakk has a condition or ailment he is dealing with.

 

[Badronald]

Is there a vid online?

Found this. It has some of the riffing as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql9rZOt6oUc

 

[Badronald]

Wasn't bad, just the same old licks. The chorus is annoying.

 

[nevusofota]

I wish Van Gogh painted like Rembrandt

 

[Chubtone]

Note selection? Really?. Were there some backing tracks he was playing over that would put anything he played in a context?

Yeah really. An instrumental or sung line can't be musical or melodic unless there is a backing track? For someone who plays as well as you do George this is the most confusing thing I've ever read from you.

 

[Chubtone]

I wish Van Gogh painted like Rembrandt

I wish Van Gogh didn't limit his entire creative output to techniques he had developed by 21 years of age.

I wish Van Gogh didn't dismiss an entire stylistic genre because it had "already been done" by one guy and replace it with a style that had already been done by 99% of every other rock guitarist since the beginning of time.

I wish Van Gogh didn't keep re-inventing himself with a new persona that was more bizarre and laughable than the one that preceded it.

I wish Van Gogh didn't make you wonder if he was mentally challenged every time he opened his mouth.

I could do this all day long

My reference above was remember when Zakk said that he wasn't going to have the classical influence in his style because Randy had "already done that"? Randy had already completely covered the "classical thing" in a career covering two albums? The ENTIRE potential classical influence was used up by about 5 or 6 Rhoads solos that went in that direction? Good thing no one told Yngwie that.

And the thing that was so freaking funny about Zakk dismissing that was that since Randy had somehow obliterated any chance to use a classical influence in heavy metal ever again, Zakk was going to do something much more original. He was going to use the same soloing approach that every single rock player in history had already used instead. Let's see, Randy's influence in the same band that Randy was in vs 12,000,000 other guitarists approach. Still makes me shake my head.

And the shoe-horning of that country influence where it didn't belong drove me nuts too. His thinking, "Randy did classical, that's all used up. So I'm going to use country. Then the next guy can use polka and the next can use bossa nova." FFS, one of those works well in a dark-heavy metal context. The others don't.

 

[Greazygeo]

Note selection? Really?. Were there some backing tracks he was playing over that would put anything he played in a context?

Yeah really. An instrumental or sung line can't be musical or melodic unless there is a backing track? For someone who plays as well as you do George this is the most confusing thing I've ever read from you.

All I'm saying is that any line or lick can sound many different ways depending on the chords it is used over. I took a class with Scott Henderson once and we covered using pentatonics over different chord choices. Pretty neat stuff. Not saying Zakk does any of that thinking, but like I said sounds just like he was noodling. He just does his thing...not my thing, but when you hear it you know it's him.

 

[Dopethrone]

in other news, brent from mastodon has perfected the "zakk wylde" vocal.
and honestly, that's the only thing that's really put me off about zakk, but even at that, he's still doing it his way....i've admired him as a musician for years. before he was doing it his way, no one else was doing it that way. not even a forum full of ex experts and experts alike that love kicking people, especially when theyre down.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I stumbled into this link tonight:

I actually have this disc, but didn't listen to it much because it has a somber vibe. I am really digging it tonight though as it matches my mood. Zakk's vocals area mix of Greg Allman, Ozzy, and Axl. I hate the Axl part which has become more prominent through the years, but this disc is heavy Allman-ish vocals. The guitar work is actually tasty in many areas. Any Book of Shadow fans would probably dig this disc

 

[blackie13]

I wish Van Gogh painted like Rembrandt

I wish Van Gogh didn't limit his entire creative output to techniques he had developed by 21 years of age.

I wish Van Gogh didn't dismiss an entire stylistic genre because it had "already been done" by one guy and replace it with a style that had already been done by 99% of every other rock guitarist since the beginning of time.

I wish Van Gogh didn't keep re-inventing himself with a new persona that was more bizarre and laughable than the one that preceded it.

I wish Van Gogh didn't make you wonder if he was mentally challenged every time he opened his mouth.

I could do this all day long .

You just described van Gogh to a certain extent...

 

[UDTBUDS]

ZAKK is cool but Trunk and gang need to go

 

[Chris O]

Just watched the episode in question.

YES - it's Zakk doing what Zakk does. For the last 20 years.
YES - it sounded BETTER than most of the "guests" that have been on the show.
YES - the guy has personality. He's got a great sense of humor, and seems like a genuinely nice guy.
YES - he's a different "character" than he was in the Ozz days. He's an ENTERTAINER. They put on a SHOW. Deal with it.

It thought he was great. He sounded good. He sounded HUGE. Nobody complains about the ridiculous effects Schon uses...so why Zakk? Warren Demartini was AWFUL on TMS...and he's revered like a GOD here. Zakk looked healthy...and happy. He sat...so what?? I love the internet. Lots of brave souls riding their keyboards to glory...

Good times. Like I said - I wish I sucked half as bad as he does...

 

[Soulstealer]

Just watched the episode in question.

YES - it's Zakk doing what Zakk does. For the last 20 years.
YES - it sounded BETTER than most of the "guests" that have been on the show.
YES - the guy has personality. He's got a great sense of humor, and seems like a genuinely nice guy.
YES - he's a different "character" than he was in the Ozz days. He's an ENTERTAINER. They put on a SHOW. Deal with it.

It thought he was great. He sounded good. He sounded HUGE. Nobody complains about the ridiculous effects Schon uses...so why Zakk? Warren Demartini was AWFUL on TMS...and he's revered like a GOD here. Zakk looked healthy...and happy. He sat...so what?? I love the internet. Lots of brave souls riding their keyboards to glory...

Good times. Like I said - I wish I sucked half as bad as he does...

Totally agree. Warren really bummed me out, as he was my hero growing up. Totally half-assed it, playing riffs and boring slow lines when people wanted to see some shredding. I think he's just really not suited to being in the spotlight as a solo player. He also tries to be tasteful sometimes to a fault. He's at his best when he's wailing.

 

[messenger]

I just watched it and don't think it was that bad at all. I was expecting something similar to the original Wylde Audio demo with him in the hotel room.

 

[Browns Fan]

I thought he sounded spot on! People just love to bash great players.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I just remember a time when he played everything cleanly, two notes or three. He also suffers from hyper speed need now. The guy was fast in 88 , how much faster do you need to get? I always enjoyed the phrasing of his solos. Those first two albums he did with oZzy are awesome. Not because he plays anything off the charts, but because he plays some awesomely crafted solos. No more tears? Miracle man? Come on, some great stuff there. He has gone to shit in the last ten years though. Also that tone, what is up with that damn warble chorus? how can be think that is bitchin? Even Hendrix would sit back and say " dude, you totally missed the point ... I layer my effects I don't swim in them"

 

[RockyStar]

I liked his playing, I didn't care a lot for his tone. Too wet with no note separation. If he could lighten up the effects I think it would have sounded much better. It is ok to season the steak but not so much so that you can't taste the steak.

 

[V-Type]

I just remember a time when he played everything cleanly, two notes or three. He also suffers from hyper speed need now. The guy was fast in 88 , how much faster do you need to get? I always enjoyed the phrasing of his solos. Those first two albums he did with oZzy are awesome. Not because he plays anything off the charts, but because he plays some awesomely crafted solos. No more tears? Miracle man? Come on, some great stuff there. He has gone to shit in the last ten years though. Also that tone, what is up with that damn warble chorus? how can be think that is bitchin? Even Hendrix would sit back and say " dude, you totally missed the point ... I layer my effects I don't swim in them"

Agreed.

The guy sounds Great on an acoustic rig but the moment he slaps an electric on wham with the muddy sounding oversaturated chorusy undefined tones.
His tone stack hides how clean he does/can play imo.
Early Zakk was not near the brutalz he is today thogh....