Zohran Mamdani Appreciation Thread

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JamesTiberiusKirk said:
I used Rolex and Bugatti as examples of expensive things that sell EVEN WHEN the price goes up. (Veblen goods) If the price of ownership of a luxury apartment goes up a few percentage points, it's not going to affect the market. Those people who can't afford the small increase can't afford the place (or item) in the first place.

And, the only place you can own a NYC penthouse, is in NYC. Sure, a penthouse in Wisconsin might be 1/10 the price but it's 1/10 the price BECAUSE it's in Wisconsin. A $5M apartment in NYC is that much because of the location.

Anyhow, time will tell which of us is correct.
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Here's an article I came across from 2019 by the CBC-NYC from when Cuomo and DeBlasio were attempting to pass a pied-a-terre tax. (link at bottom) It lays out some of the same flaws that are being overlooked now. One thing of note from the article is the people who own luxury 2nd homes pay the same/similar property & other taxes as full time residents while using less city resources.

As said though, what happens next is all speculative for the moment. I just don't see it being a net positive for NYC.

I think @IndyWS6 made a good general point. Everyone should pay their fair share, but why should someone be penalized with extra taxes for being successful? IMO imposing extra taxes on the wealthy points to jealousy, not fairness.

https://cbcny.org/research/pied-terre-tax
 
MadAsAHatter said:
Here's an article I came across from 2019 by the CBC-NYC from when Cuomo and DeBlasio were attempting to pass a pied-a-terre tax. (link at bottom) It lays out some of the same flaws that are being overlooked now. One thing of note from the article is the people who own luxury 2nd homes pay the same/similar property & other taxes as full time residents while using less city resources.

As said though, what happens next is all speculative for the moment. I just don't see it being a net positive for NYC.

I think @IndyWS6 made a good general point. Everyone should pay their fair share, but why should someone be penalized with extra taxes for being successful? IMO imposing extra taxes on the wealthy points to jealousy, not fairness.

https://cbcny.org/research/pied-terre-tax
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This is a bit of thread drift but I think it follows our discussion.

Personally I agree, no one should be burdened with an unfair amount of tax. I'd be all for a flat tax. Universal. Including churches. Plus close the loopholes the ultra wealthy have like using loans against mega-assests and other sneaky dodges the middle class can't use.

That'll never happen of course so we're stuck with band aid solutions to have the ultra rich pay the same amount as the rest of us.
 
JamesTiberiusKirk said:
This is a bit of thread drift but I think it follows our discussion.

Personally I agree, no one should be burdened with an unfair amount of tax. I'd be all for a flat tax. Universal. Including churches. Plus close the loopholes the ultra wealthy have like using loans against mega-assests and other sneaky dodges the middle class can't use.

That'll never happen of course so we're stuck with band aid solutions to have the ultra rich pay the same amount as the rest of us.
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They pay a hell of a lot more than the rest of us. And by us I mean me and most normal middle class people with actual taxable income.
 
Geo said:
My doctor specifically instructed me not to get libtard toe fungus on my lips.
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Why? Had you been doing a lot of that before he warned you? Must have, otherwise that wouldn't have come up in conversation.
 
Just for shits 'n giggles, WITHOUT googling, tell me what you think the word communism means.
 
So, you think it means "handsome guitarist".

You shouldn't use words you can't define. Why? Because you'll use them incorrectly and publicly display your ignorance.
 
JamesTiberiusKirk said:
Not by percentage of income. Not even close.
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Do you know who cares about percentage of income ? Jealous people. Lazy people. People who want other people to pay for shit they use. Progressive income tax is bullshit. You want to keep a higher percentage of your income, do the fucking work, get a good job.

The top 10% pay 40% of all federal tax. The bottom 31% pay zero.
 
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1776746286491.jpeg
 
Communist:
It's not greedy to want to protect your own earnings.

Communist:
It's not greedy to want to take as much as possible from others' earnings, namely the rich.
 
Floyd Eye said:
Do you know who cares about percentage of income ? Jealous people. Lazy people. People who want other people to pay for shit they use. Progressive income tax is bullshit. You want to keep a higher percentage of your income, do the fucking work, get a good job.

The top 10% pay 40% of all federal tax. The bottom 31% pay zero.
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You’re a fucking idiot

Rich people calling for higher taxes are jealous and lazy as well?
 
JamesTiberiusKirk said:
This is a bit of thread drift but I think it follows our discussion.

Personally I agree, no one should be burdened with an unfair amount of tax. I'd be all for a flat tax. Universal. Including churches. Plus close the loopholes the ultra wealthy have like using loans against mega-assests and other sneaky dodges the middle class can't use.

That'll never happen of course so we're stuck with band aid solutions to have the ultra rich pay the same amount as the rest of us.
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Floyd Eye said:
Do you know who cares about percentage of income ? Jealous people. Lazy people. People who want other people to pay for shit they use. Progressive income tax is bullshit. You want to keep a higher percentage of your income, do the fucking work, get a good job.

The top 10% pay 40% of all federal tax. The bottom 31% pay zero.
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This is one of those great examples of how to lie with statistics where you can frame the data to show anything you want. You really need the all the raw data in this case for any of the stats to have meaning.

I don't know hard stats off hand, but this should be close enough to use for examples:
  • The top 10% pay more dollars/individual than the average American.
  • The top 10% pay less percentage wise in income tax than the average American. 8%:12% after deductions is the ratio I believe. But this excludes all other taxes such as sales, capital gains, property, etc.
  • Per individual, Top 10% pay more in taxes to income (about 70% of their income) than the average American (about 30% of their income).
  • The top 10% pay 40% of the total tax revenue while 59% pay about 60% of the total and 31% pay 0%. Interpreting it 2 ways; The top 10% pay less of the total tax revenue or the ratio of % people to % tax, the top 10% carries the burden. (not sure if this is income only or total taxes)
Other things you have to factor in which usually aren't disclosed in these little snippets of stats. What criteria is being used to determine wealthy? Are people who pay zero tax being included or excluded? What types of taxes are being included? Are corporate taxes included or individual only? Are these final actual numbers including deductions or tax bracket and pre-deduction numbers being used? Are State taxes being included or just Federal. On top of all of this you also have to factor in the whole graduated tax BS. Are numbers being pulled from each graduated portion or is a marginal rate being used?

So you can see there are may ways to frame the data to make it show anything you want without actually falsifying anything. It's "lying" by omission or framework. As best as I could tell from when I looked at raw numbers the "wealthy" Americans tend to shoulder the biggest burden that includes all forms of taxes after deductions; the more money you make the higher amounts of total taxes you pay.

It comes down to the whole tax system is distributed unevenly. Personally I think no one should be penalized with taxes for being successful. Everyone should pay their "fair" portion based on the same criteria so ratios are even regardless of wealth level. Unfortunately I don't have a solid solution on how to do that. Apparently neither do people in government since the go to solution always seems to be tax the rich.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
This is one of those great examples of how to lie with statistics where you can frame the data to show anything you want. You really need the all the raw data in this case for any of the stats to have meaning.

I don't know hard stats off hand, but this should be close enough to use for examples:
  • The top 10% pay more dollars/individual than the average American.
  • The top 10% pay less percentage wise in income tax than the average American. 8%:12% after deductions is the ratio I believe. But this excludes all other taxes such as sales, capital gains, property, etc.
  • Per individual, Top 10% pay more in taxes to income (about 70% of their income) than the average American (about 30% of their income).
  • The top 10% pay 40% of the total tax revenue while 59% pay about 60% of the total and 31% pay 0%. Interpreting it 2 ways; The top 10% pay less of the total tax revenue or the ratio of % people to % tax, the top 10% carries the burden. (not sure if this is income only or total taxes)
Other things you have to factor in which usually aren't disclosed in these little snippets of stats. What criteria is being used to determine wealthy? Are people who pay zero tax being included or excluded? What types of taxes are being included? Are corporate taxes included or individual only? Are these final actual numbers including deductions or tax bracket and pre-deduction numbers being used? Are State taxes being included or just Federal. On top of all of this you also have to factor in the whole graduated tax BS. Are numbers being pulled from each graduated portion or is a marginal rate being used?

So you can see there are may ways to frame the data to make it show anything you want without actually falsifying anything. It's "lying" by omission or framework. As best as I could tell from when I looked at raw numbers the "wealthy" Americans tend to shoulder the biggest burden that includes all forms of taxes after deductions; the more money you make the higher amounts of total taxes you pay.

It comes down to the whole tax system is distributed unevenly. Personally I think no one should be penalized with taxes for being successful. Everyone should pay their "fair" portion based on the same criteria so ratios are even regardless of wealth level. Unfortunately I don't have a solid solution on how to do that. Apparently neither do people in government since the go to solution always seems to be tax the rich.
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Flat tax. Even the losers making 12k a year like young Homo Lover pay.
 
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