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PostPosted: Fri, Feb 02, 2018 7:34am 
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I've been using an EWS subtle volume control with my VH4 with great results. I simply place it in my serial loop and crank it down a good amount, and then put my MV at noon and CV at 11. With that being said, my Herbert MK2 seems to not really like the pedal. When I use the same settings on the pedal on my Herbert, the tone becomes completely sucked out, and all I hear are the high frequencies and they sound super harsh and sizzly. Further, I can't seem to dial in any good volumes with the pedal, it's as if the Herbert is overpowering it or something.

I'm hoping someone around here would have some sort of an idea as to why this is the case :confused: Any input would be appreciated!

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PostPosted: Fri, Feb 02, 2018 8:03am 
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Sounds like you are in the parallel loop...

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PostPosted: Fri, Feb 02, 2018 8:08am 
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Vin Diezel wrote:
Sounds like you are in the parallel loop...



I appreciate the advice my man. I'm pretty certain i'm in the serial loop. I see a switchable, serial, and parallel. Of course, there always is the possibility I accidentally used the parallel, but i'm almost certain it was the serial.

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PostPosted: Fri, Feb 02, 2018 10:53am 
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Vin Diezel wrote:
Sounds like you are in the parallel loop...



Just to follow up- I double checked it, I did in fact plug it into the series loop. This is very strange- the volume pedal works great with my VH4

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PostPosted: Fri, Feb 02, 2018 12:13pm 
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Does the serial loop work without the ews?

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PostPosted: Fri, Feb 02, 2018 12:27pm 
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Vin Diezel wrote:
Does the serial loop work without the ews?


Yup, it works fine with the effects on their own, and with the volume pedal last in the loop.

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PostPosted: Fri, Feb 02, 2018 4:19pm 
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Then it is not the ews that is causing problems.

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PostPosted: Fri, Feb 02, 2018 6:47pm 
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Vin Diezel wrote:
Then it is not the ews that is causing problems.


I ordered a buffer pedal from analogman. I hope it helps with my issue. Would you have any ideas as to what could be causing it?

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PostPosted: Sat, Feb 03, 2018 7:22am 
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Omega1397 wrote:
Vin Diezel wrote:
Then it is not the ews that is causing problems.


I ordered a buffer pedal from analogman. I hope it helps with my issue. Would you have any ideas as to what could be causing it?


Effects loop doesnt need a buffer, it is tube driven.

Channel masters are the send level controls, you can see if you are simply overloading the volume pedal by turning this down and seeing if it gets better. Also check batteries and power supplies.

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PostPosted: Sat, Feb 03, 2018 7:29am 
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moltenmetalburn wrote:
Omega1397 wrote:
Vin Diezel wrote:
Then it is not the ews that is causing problems.


I ordered a buffer pedal from analogman. I hope it helps with my issue. Would you have any ideas as to what could be causing it?


Effects loop doesnt need a buffer, it is tube driven.

Channel masters are the send level controls, you can see if you are simply overloading the volume pedal by turning this down and seeing if it gets better. Also check batteries and power supplies.


Hmm, thank you. I bought a buffer because when I placed my EQ pedal in my effects loop, I was getting a noticeable volume drop, and then when I turned the eq on my volume would jump.

As for the volume pedal, I’m not too sure what the deal is. With my VH4 I’m able to set the CV to 11, and the MV to 12. However, with the Herbert it’s like it just blows through it, and when I use the same setting on my volume pedal with my Herbert that I use in mg Vh4, the tone gets sucked dry from the Herbert. I use the serial loop with my VH4.

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PostPosted: Sat, Feb 03, 2018 4:31pm 
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I actually posted two videos of what's going on:

Part 1 VH4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6J1ium5I
Part 2 Herbert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKQBEt7kGa4

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Last edited by Omega1397 on Sun, Feb 04, 2018 10:31am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 04, 2018 10:15am 
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moltenmetalburn wrote:
Omega1397 wrote:
Vin Diezel wrote:
Then it is not the ews that is causing problems.


I ordered a buffer pedal from analogman. I hope it helps with my issue. Would you have any ideas as to what could be causing it?


Effects loop doesnt need a buffer, it is tube driven.

Channel masters are the send level controls, you can see if you are simply overloading the volume pedal by turning this down and seeing if it gets better. Also check batteries and power supplies.


Hey my man,

I'd hate to bother you about my issue, but could you perhaps check out the videos I posted and give me your input?

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 04, 2018 12:39pm 
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Omega1397 wrote:
I actually posted two videos of what's going on:

Part 1 VH4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6J1ium5I
Part 2 Herbert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKQBEt7kGa4



I watched the vids and something is definitely off. Either the pedal does not flat out play nice with the Herbert or maybe the V5 preamp tube is microphonic in the Herbert.

Have you tried any other fx in the Herbie loop like your reverb or eq pedals? Any issues with those pedals or do they sound normal?

Just plugging straight in (no loop engaged) your Herbert sounds fine. I'd honestly just recommend ditching the volume pedal with the Herbert altogether and just tweaking the channel volumes and global MV to get a useable tone. Also try backing off your channel bass pots to around 11:00 and the master deep pot to 10-11:00 as the Herbert has a lot of bass... a whole lot of bass and it kills off a lot of the tone at low volume settings. I'd keep your master presence at 3:00 where you have it set now though. The Herbert loop might just not like that pedal.

Are your tuned to standard 440 or dropped tuned on your guitar?

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 04, 2018 12:48pm 
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Wizard of Ozz wrote:
Omega1397 wrote:
I actually posted two videos of what's going on:

Part 1 VH4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6J1ium5I
Part 2 Herbert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKQBEt7kGa4



I watched the vids and something is definitely off. Either the pedal does not flat out play nice with the Herbert or maybe the V5 preamp tube is microphonic in the Herbert.

Have you tried any other fx in the Herbie loop like your reverb or eq pedals? Any issues with those pedals or do they sound normal?

Just plugging straight in (no loop engaged) your Herbert sounds fine. I'd honestly just recommend ditching the volume pedal with the Herbert altogether and just tweaking the channel volumes and global MV to get a useable tone. Also try backing off your channel bass pots to around 11:00 and the master deep pot to 10-11:00 as the Herbert has a lot of bass... a whole lot of bass and it kills off a lot of the tone at low volume settings. I'd keep your master presence at 3:00 where you have it set now though. The Herbert loop might just not like that pedal.

Are your tuned to standard 440 or dropped tuned on your guitar?


I appreciate your input. I have a fresh Ruby AC5 HG from valvequeen in the preamp V5. Further, my delay and reverb sound fine in my loop. I'll hook up my EQ to my loop to see if there is any issues. If you recall from a post I made here, I had issues placing the EQ in my loop on my VH4- i'd have a volume drop when the pedal is disengaged in the loop, and when I activate the pedal (with the volume and gain on the pedal at 0) there is a volume jump. I ordered an analogman buffer yesterday for the EQ pedal isues.

Just to clarify: I'm not having issues finding a good volume level with my Herbert in my small apartment. I'm just baffled as to why I can't crank the MV on my Herbert with the volume pedal, as opposed to my VH4 which works out pretty nicely.

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 04, 2018 1:03pm 
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Omega1397 wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
Omega1397 wrote:
I actually posted two videos of what's going on:

Part 1 VH4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6J1ium5I
Part 2 Herbert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKQBEt7kGa4



I watched the vids and something is definitely off. Either the pedal does not flat out play nice with the Herbert or maybe the V5 preamp tube is microphonic in the Herbert.

Have you tried any other fx in the Herbie loop like your reverb or eq pedals? Any issues with those pedals or do they sound normal?

Just plugging straight in (no loop engaged) your Herbert sounds fine. I'd honestly just recommend ditching the volume pedal with the Herbert altogether and just tweaking the channel volumes and global MV to get a useable tone. Also try backing off your channel bass pots to around 11:00 and the master deep pot to 10-11:00 as the Herbert has a lot of bass... a whole lot of bass and it kills off a lot of the tone at low volume settings. I'd keep your master presence at 3:00 where you have it set now though. The Herbert loop might just not like that pedal.

Are your tuned to standard 440 or dropped tuned on your guitar?


I appreciate your input. I have a fresh Ruby AC5 HG from valvequeen in the preamp V5. Further, my delay and reverb sound fine in my loop. I'll hook up my EQ to my loop to see if there is any issues. If you recall from a post I made here, I had issues placing the EQ in my loop on my VH4- i'd have a volume drop when the pedal is disengaged in the loop, and when I activate the pedal (with the volume and gain on the pedal at 0) there is a volume jump. I ordered an analogman buffer yesterday for the EQ pedal isues.

Just to clarify: I'm not having issues finding a good volume level with my Herbert in my small apartment. I'm just baffled as to why I can't crank the MV on my Herbert with the volume pedal, as opposed to my VH4 which works out pretty nicely.


Then it's just something with the design of that volume pedal that doesn't jive with the Herbert. Try a different volume pedal? EBMM?

I really feel that the Herbert is one of the best sounding low volume high gain sounding amps bare none. I think the 180W scares a lot of potential buyers off that would love it... but it sounds great at lower volumes.

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 04, 2018 1:16pm 
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Wizard of Ozz wrote:
Omega1397 wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
Omega1397 wrote:
I actually posted two videos of what's going on:

Part 1 VH4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6J1ium5I
Part 2 Herbert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKQBEt7kGa4



I watched the vids and something is definitely off. Either the pedal does not flat out play nice with the Herbert or maybe the V5 preamp tube is microphonic in the Herbert.

Have you tried any other fx in the Herbie loop like your reverb or eq pedals? Any issues with those pedals or do they sound normal?

Just plugging straight in (no loop engaged) your Herbert sounds fine. I'd honestly just recommend ditching the volume pedal with the Herbert altogether and just tweaking the channel volumes and global MV to get a useable tone. Also try backing off your channel bass pots to around 11:00 and the master deep pot to 10-11:00 as the Herbert has a lot of bass... a whole lot of bass and it kills off a lot of the tone at low volume settings. I'd keep your master presence at 3:00 where you have it set now though. The Herbert loop might just not like that pedal.

Are your tuned to standard 440 or dropped tuned on your guitar?


I appreciate your input. I have a fresh Ruby AC5 HG from valvequeen in the preamp V5. Further, my delay and reverb sound fine in my loop. I'll hook up my EQ to my loop to see if there is any issues. If you recall from a post I made here, I had issues placing the EQ in my loop on my VH4- i'd have a volume drop when the pedal is disengaged in the loop, and when I activate the pedal (with the volume and gain on the pedal at 0) there is a volume jump. I ordered an analogman buffer yesterday for the EQ pedal isues.

Just to clarify: I'm not having issues finding a good volume level with my Herbert in my small apartment. I'm just baffled as to why I can't crank the MV on my Herbert with the volume pedal, as opposed to my VH4 which works out pretty nicely.


Then it's just something with the design of that volume pedal that doesn't jive with the Herbert. Try a different volume pedal? EBMM?

I really feel that the Herbert is one of the best sounding low volume high gain sounding amps bare none. I think the 180W scares a lot of potential buyers off that would love it... but it sounds great at lower volumes.


I'm by no means saying it doesn't sound good at low volumes, i'm just baffled by why it works fine with my VH4 but not Herbert. I know the impedance of the EWS pedal is 25kOhm. Perhaps I should try a lower impedance volume pedal... I'm looking at the Ernie ball pedals, but they're 250k impedance, which I think is too high. The lowest they have is 25kOhm, which is the same as the EWS. Perhaps I should try making my own volume pedal with a lower impedance. In that regard, i'm not sure wether I need a higher or lower impedance.

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 04, 2018 1:27pm 
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Omega1397 wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
Omega1397 wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
Omega1397 wrote:
I actually posted two videos of what's going on:

Part 1 VH4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6J1ium5I
Part 2 Herbert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKQBEt7kGa4



I watched the vids and something is definitely off. Either the pedal does not flat out play nice with the Herbert or maybe the V5 preamp tube is microphonic in the Herbert.

Have you tried any other fx in the Herbie loop like your reverb or eq pedals? Any issues with those pedals or do they sound normal?

Just plugging straight in (no loop engaged) your Herbert sounds fine. I'd honestly just recommend ditching the volume pedal with the Herbert altogether and just tweaking the channel volumes and global MV to get a useable tone. Also try backing off your channel bass pots to around 11:00 and the master deep pot to 10-11:00 as the Herbert has a lot of bass... a whole lot of bass and it kills off a lot of the tone at low volume settings. I'd keep your master presence at 3:00 where you have it set now though. The Herbert loop might just not like that pedal.

Are your tuned to standard 440 or dropped tuned on your guitar?


I appreciate your input. I have a fresh Ruby AC5 HG from valvequeen in the preamp V5. Further, my delay and reverb sound fine in my loop. I'll hook up my EQ to my loop to see if there is any issues. If you recall from a post I made here, I had issues placing the EQ in my loop on my VH4- i'd have a volume drop when the pedal is disengaged in the loop, and when I activate the pedal (with the volume and gain on the pedal at 0) there is a volume jump. I ordered an analogman buffer yesterday for the EQ pedal isues.

Just to clarify: I'm not having issues finding a good volume level with my Herbert in my small apartment. I'm just baffled as to why I can't crank the MV on my Herbert with the volume pedal, as opposed to my VH4 which works out pretty nicely.


Then it's just something with the design of that volume pedal that doesn't jive with the Herbert. Try a different volume pedal? EBMM?

I really feel that the Herbert is one of the best sounding low volume high gain sounding amps bare none. I think the 180W scares a lot of potential buyers off that would love it... but it sounds great at lower volumes.


I'm by no means saying it doesn't sound good at low volumes, i'm just baffled by why it works fine with my VH4 but not Herbert. I know the impedance of the EWS pedal is 25kOhm. Perhaps I should try a lower impedance volume pedal... I'm looking at the Ernie ball pedals, but they're 250k impedance, which I think is too high. The lowest they have is 25kOhm, which is the same as the EWS. Perhaps I should try making my own volume pedal with a lower impedance. In that regard, i'm not sure wether I need a higher or lower impedance.


Either that or just look in to an attenuator like the Two Notes Reload... that works for sure with the Herbert and VH4 to lower volumes and you can silent record and play in to your Mac/pc with headphones (thru an audio interface) or thru monitors.

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 04, 2018 1:33pm 
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Wizard of Ozz wrote:
Omega1397 wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
Omega1397 wrote:
Wizard of Ozz wrote:
Omega1397 wrote:
I actually posted two videos of what's going on:

Part 1 VH4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6J1ium5I
Part 2 Herbert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKQBEt7kGa4



I watched the vids and something is definitely off. Either the pedal does not flat out play nice with the Herbert or maybe the V5 preamp tube is microphonic in the Herbert.

Have you tried any other fx in the Herbie loop like your reverb or eq pedals? Any issues with those pedals or do they sound normal?

Just plugging straight in (no loop engaged) your Herbert sounds fine. I'd honestly just recommend ditching the volume pedal with the Herbert altogether and just tweaking the channel volumes and global MV to get a useable tone. Also try backing off your channel bass pots to around 11:00 and the master deep pot to 10-11:00 as the Herbert has a lot of bass... a whole lot of bass and it kills off a lot of the tone at low volume settings. I'd keep your master presence at 3:00 where you have it set now though. The Herbert loop might just not like that pedal.

Are your tuned to standard 440 or dropped tuned on your guitar?


I appreciate your input. I have a fresh Ruby AC5 HG from valvequeen in the preamp V5. Further, my delay and reverb sound fine in my loop. I'll hook up my EQ to my loop to see if there is any issues. If you recall from a post I made here, I had issues placing the EQ in my loop on my VH4- i'd have a volume drop when the pedal is disengaged in the loop, and when I activate the pedal (with the volume and gain on the pedal at 0) there is a volume jump. I ordered an analogman buffer yesterday for the EQ pedal isues.

Just to clarify: I'm not having issues finding a good volume level with my Herbert in my small apartment. I'm just baffled as to why I can't crank the MV on my Herbert with the volume pedal, as opposed to my VH4 which works out pretty nicely.


Then it's just something with the design of that volume pedal that doesn't jive with the Herbert. Try a different volume pedal? EBMM?

I really feel that the Herbert is one of the best sounding low volume high gain sounding amps bare none. I think the 180W scares a lot of potential buyers off that would love it... but it sounds great at lower volumes.


I'm by no means saying it doesn't sound good at low volumes, i'm just baffled by why it works fine with my VH4 but not Herbert. I know the impedance of the EWS pedal is 25kOhm. Perhaps I should try a lower impedance volume pedal... I'm looking at the Ernie ball pedals, but they're 250k impedance, which I think is too high. The lowest they have is 25kOhm, which is the same as the EWS. Perhaps I should try making my own volume pedal with a lower impedance. In that regard, i'm not sure wether I need a higher or lower impedance.


Either that or just look in to an attenuator like the Two Notes Reload... that works for sure with the Herbert and VH4 to lower volumes and you can silent record and play in to your Mac/pc with headphones (thru an audio interface) or thru monitors.


I really want the Reload, but i'm a little tight on funds right now. I have a second EWS coming in the mail soon (I ordered it at the same time as the Herbert thinking it would work). I'm going to try changing the pot inside of it.

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 04, 2018 2:18pm 
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For the more tech savy folks out there- What pot values would you estimate to be a better option? My volume pedal has a 25K at the moment. How much lower should I go?

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 04, 2018 3:01pm 
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Try putting your Boss tuner in the effects loop but *BEFORE* the volume box you've got. This will tell you if an additional buffer will help or not.

I have to say though, I'm incredibly skeptical that these in-line volume "attenuators" do anything more than making your gain staging more difficult.

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 04, 2018 3:46pm 
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Amberience wrote:
Try putting your Boss tuner in the effects loop but *BEFORE* the volume box you've got. This will tell you if an additional buffer will help or not.

I have to say though, I'm incredibly skeptical that these in-line volume "attenuators" do anything more than making your gain staging more difficult.


Thank you for your input. How would I tell if an additional buffer would help by plugging by boss tuner before the volume pot?

The attenuator seems to work good with my VH4, but I don't know what's up with the Herbert. I'm going to try to change pots in my second EWS to see if it helps. I'm wondering if I need a lower impedance or a higher impedance.

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 04, 2018 4:21pm 
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I tried using a boss TU-3 before the volume pedal in the loop (with the regular output, not bypass) and no luck. I also tried using the volume control on my Boss EQ, and same result.

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PostPosted: Tue, Feb 06, 2018 3:24am 
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Maybe a more systematic approach would help. ;) Stop putting in pedals and buffers.
http://www.diezel.co.uk/Herbert_English.pdf
RTFM

Get rid of everything in the three loops. Then put the EWS in the serial loop. Alone. Make sure it is plugged "send to input", "output to return".
I do not know Herbert, but a 25kOhm pot in the serial loop should not possibly be the problem.
If it is really not a user error, I would ask Peter why a volume pot with 25kOhms does not work in Herbert's loop. It's weird.

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 11, 2018 7:07am 
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Have you tried it?
Does the ews work in Herbert's loop when used alone?
It is a fact that not all effects pedals can be used in any effects loop because some cannot deal with the higher signal level. Most of them are built to be used before the amp.
BUT:
I am convinced that a 25k volume pedal can be used in this loop because Peter and also other customers would have noticed long before if it was a problem.

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 11, 2018 10:49am 
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Vin Diezel wrote:
Have you tried it?
Does the ews work in Herbert's loop when used alone?
It is a fact that not all effects pedals can be used in any effects loop because some cannot deal with the higher signal level. Most of them are built to be used before the amp.
BUT:
I am convinced that a 25k volume pedal can be used in this loop because Peter and also other customers would have noticed long before if it was a problem.


Yup, it was one of the first things I tried while troubleshooting. I appreciate the input though.

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PostPosted: Mon, Feb 12, 2018 6:08am 
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So the volume pedal works in the loop, does it?

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PostPosted: Mon, Feb 12, 2018 6:13am 
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Vin Diezel wrote:
So the volume pedal works in the loop, does it?



Nope, not for my Herbert, just the VH4. On my Herbert, once dial down the volume down with the pedal the tone gets sucked try. All that comes through is the uppermost frequencies- sounds very static, fizzy, and harsh. So I try to turn the volume up and it just blasts through super loud, with the same aforementioned tone.

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PostPosted: Mon, Feb 12, 2018 7:41am 
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I had a similar issue with different 25k volume pedals in the serial loop of both my Herbert and Hagen. In the VH4 it worked perfectly. I wanted to use the volume pedal for swell effects but when the pedal was completely down (off) I still get some bleed through/filtered signal from the amp.

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PostPosted: Mon, Feb 12, 2018 7:43am 
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MourningEngine wrote:
I had a similar issue with different 25k volume pedals in the serial loop of both my Herbert and Hagen. In the VH4 it worked perfectly. I wanted to use the volume pedal for swell effects but when the pedal was completely down (off) I still get some bleed through/filtered signal from the amp.


Wow, thanks for your input. This definitely helps nail down the issue. Perhaps some Diezel techs could chime in here?

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