Rig-Talk

Scammed me, held onto my amp and money for a long time, claiming the amp was broken. I found him selling it here and on Reverb, USING MY PICTURE IN MY ROOM THAT I LISTED! He ended up telling the truth about lying after a month of fighting. Don’t sell to this guy, he will use the equipment and claim it has problems if he doesn’t like it.

wow...
couple of good deal threads w/ him on the Feedback section. you may want to post over there as well if you guys really got cross-legged. it'll stay there, yet become buried on the classifieds.

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dfrattaroli"...If you're the real deal, fame will find you. Otherwise, I'd really love to hear 99 Luft Balloons please. Carry on."

By his feedback he obviously has done a lot of good deals...but telling me the amp i sold him is broken and holding all the money...but selling it here and on Reverb for more money as mint? That’s crap.

not disagreeing it is/was a shitty move...merely suggesting you also put your feedback in the feedback section of the forum.

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dfrattaroli"...If you're the real deal, fame will find you. Otherwise, I'd really love to hear 99 Luft Balloons please. Carry on."

Ah ok, gotcha.

I thought the payment and shipment were somewhat simultaneous? So you shipped the amp before receiving payment? Just trying to fully understand, if that's the case u sent it n good faith and got taken for a ride? How pleasant that must have felt. WTF

More details are needed, especially when you blast someone like that

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https://www.reverbnation.com/flatearthriot

He sent the money first, because it was a large amount, PayPal put it on hold until shipment was confirmed. No problem. Then after 3 days he opened a dispute with PayPal saying the amp was not working and damaged. This went on and on...meanwhile he was selling it here and on Reverb as mint and all this stuff. I would have never caught him had he not used the picture of the amp in my bedroom. After I upload links and pictures to email he dropped the dispute, coincidently as it was sold here. I have so much proof. The guy has good feedback, but I would avoid selling him anything, cause if he doesn’t like it he will claim it’s damaged.

His response when he was caught was ‘it’s my amp I can do what I want’.

This type of behavior seems to be getting worse from people. I sold an item to a guy on ebay recently, he immediately tried to say there is an issue, I told him my other identical item that I still had was exactly like the one I shipped him and that's how they were. I told him if truly felt there was an issue with it I would gladly take it back and issue a full refund but he would have to pay shipping on his end to return it. I gave him tens days to return it, he would never respond. WTF? After the tens days I told him the return offer was null and void as I gave him ample time to return the item.

Even after the last email, still no response at all.

So did he file a claim for a return on your amp through Reverb? Yes alot of buyers are using false claims these days. A recent case from someone here was a guy holding a Mesa Power amp for three months after taking delivery then saying it was damaged in shipping, filed a PP claim, the seller was forced to give a refund and the buyer never shipped the amp back to him and then was selling it on Ebay with the same pictures. The buyer had used PP credit to purchase and it seems PP stuck it to the seller so they wouldn't lose their money. He was suing PP, I not sure how it worked out.

Did you finally get your money from him?

In ten plus years of selling and trading here/TGP/Reverb, I’ve never put someone on blast. However, when 3,000 dollars is held for weeks while someone has my equipment saying it’s damaged and Inhave to see it being sold elsewhere? That’s not cool. If I get in trouble for this I understand, but if it keeps someone from getting F’ed, then it was worth it.

He didn’t file through Reverb for a refund...he couldn’t, he was reselling it there. He contacted PayPal directly.

I guess I am not sure why it wasnt shipped back when received damaged" seems I would have the second he said it was broke... send it back keep.your money, so I guess you were waiting for him to asses a broken price and then agree or not to accept that? Whole deal sounds convoluted almost. If I shipped an amp someone gets it says its broke I am sending a label to get it back. No wait necessary. Ymmv

True. The reason it wasn’t sent is he was trying to sell it as well. When money is pending with PayPal it has to be released from the buyer when Item is received. He refused to do this. After three days, the money is released, however on day three he put in a PayPal dispute. On day three he can no longer get an instant refund. By this time he was selling it elsewhere. Was also a $200 shipping charge to Canada which I had to pay out of pocket, would have been both ways.

So did PP side with you and force him to give back your refund after you showed them he was listing your amp on Reverb and sitting on your money? I think behavior like you describe should be called out, it cannot be justified in any way. If there was an issue with the amp you sold he should have returned it not held your money.

So I assume he ended up keeping your amp and returning your forced refund by what you have stated.

That is exactly what happened. Once he got ‘caught’ lying and I proved it to PayPal he no longer had a case.

Lol, you sent me an amp with a mish mash of crappy defective preamp tubes and I scammed you? Nice try kid

Maybe I should post the message you sent claiming you changed all tubes and nothing was fixed. I got all the proof in the world that your the exact person that I would never deal with.

All the gear people have on this forum and pre amp tubes cause a fucking dispute? That is Fucking pathetic period. If 2 people cant be happy selling a tube amp over pre amp tubes and work out an agreement without paypal even being involved is so pathetic it sucks to even be reading this shit. Pathetic. Maybe it was 2000 dollar nos stock RCA 12ax7 pres... my fault

https://imgur.com/a/RcDahOK

https://imgur.com/a/2B4a12T

Nice try kid.

If it was just Preamp tubes, no problem. But I’m not coming out of pocket $200 and refunding for something that you are selling as mint behind my back. I also offered to buy a whole new set for him.

I’m not gonna bicker back and forth. People can make their own decisions. I just hope you are fair to the next person.

Yes, the preamp tubes in a amp listed as mint should work. Which is why I replaced the garbage you had in there before I sold the amp. Regardless, I won't be disputing this any further as it's a closed case with Paypal. The fact that you felt the need to make a post in the classified section of a gear site only reinforces your immaturity. Peace

It does look like abbath78 was trying to pull a fast one here. It is a shame basic moral ethics has been shunned by society these days. It looks like he just didn't like the amp and wanted the option to have some time to play it but have the option to return it.

If you want to do the buy and try these people need to buy new from Sweetwater or Musicians Friend.

Can you imagine what the return rate is at Sweetwater?

This is wack.
abbath, you say you replaced the tubes but believe the amp is still defective and demand a return.
None of that is in the ad here on RT...we're supposed to believe you just didn't feel like waiting on a PayPal dispute to resolve? If the amp was fine as stated in the RT ad, then there is no dispute. If the amp is defective, then the RT ad is a misleading scam.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt earlier, but unless I'm missing something, your rep is cooked here

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https://www.reverbnation.com/flatearthriot

Well you’re claimed that you replaced all of the tubes and the amp still did not work as posted. Also posted is the fact that while you were telling me this the amp was being sold as mint somewhere else. No matter which way you cut this you were being deceiving and lying to someone. To me a $3000 sale should be done in complete honesty and transparency. If you were really having these issues, which obviously you weren’t, why wouldn’t you disclose it in the sale? That in itself is untrustworthy. I really hate to put all this out, as I’m sure somewhere you’re a good dude, but Let’s not talk about level of immaturity

Thanks for posting!!!!!!

abbath you are coming off really bad here. You should probably try to make it right. Reputations follow you around on the net when you pull stuff like this.

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The harsh cold winter gives way to a warm, rainy spring.

Abbath, you offered to trade the Helios in question for my ESP Kamikaze, which I initially agreed to. You then decided to change your mind after I agreed to it. That part is fine, people change their minds, but were you offering me the same amp that you told the OP you believed was defective?? Was I going to potentially get an amp that sounded like a wah or flanger was on channel 2?? Maybe there’s an explanation but it doesn’t appear that there is.

A buddy of mine was about to pull the trigger on a cash buy on this amp. Glad he didn’t at this point...

Someone did buy this amp. Hopefully they’re aware of the issues on channel 2.

The way I see it -

1) If it was defective it should not have been sold here as mint.

2) If it wasn’t defective, a claim shouldn’t have been made with PayPal and the guy’s money withheld.

3) If you believed preamp tubes were the issue, it takes 5 minutes to install replacements and test it. You should have known right away what the bottom line was.



Makes sense now. Why would a brand new amp have “brand new preamp and power tubes.” Only supports the evidence that there was something up with it.

As someone standing way off on the side line here, this certainly doesn't have a good look for abbath78. I PM'd him asking his take on the amp and there was no mention of wah or flange sounds or a questionable loop. And as we all can see it was listed as mint.

However, I am curious how this is explained? https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... t-28266796

I have been kicking around the idea of buying an Eclipse so I have been watching threads about them including watching what is on Reverb for sale. When yours was posted for sale and this thread was started around the same time it didn't sit right with me. The amp is making too much noise and acting strange in a high gain mode, yet it is for sale?
It would have felt better if A) the questionable operation in that channel/mode was disclosed or B) that thread had a resolution to it, meaning you came back and said something like 'yup it was a bunk V2 preamp tube...all is well'

Too much doesn't add up from either side for me.

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I usually stay out of the drama threads but..Wow.

Paraphrasing here but

"I paid for it so I can do with it what I want, but I'll drop the dispute because I don't have time to jump through the hoops PayPal requires to get a refund."

No my man, you got caught trying to beat someone out of a couple grand whether it be the guy you bought it from or the person you were selling it to. Scumbag move all around.

Eclipse plus mode is noisy. I wasn’t expecting this, so I emailed Bogner. Here is their response
https://imgur.com/a/CddHaZ0

Eclipse+ is noisy by nature of 6 gain stages, will feedback at stage volume unless gain is dialed back. This is coming from bogner, per that email. There was no issue

You can post those pics this way. Will make it easier to read them in the context of this thread.

Ok, guess I'm going to make one more statement 😂. I'm not sure why this whole thing has turned into one big devious conspiracy as it was all pretty straightforward. I thought there was something else wrong with the amp than just the preamp tubes so I filed a dispute. Turned out it was just tubes so I dropped the case, seller was paid every cent. I decided to sell the amp so I purchased a new set of preamp tubes for it. Buyer is getting a mint condition, perfectly functioning amp with new preamp tubes. Everything else is up to whomever to believe what they want, but I've never "ripped off" anyone in my life and feel no need to defend my character. Cheers all

If that’s the case then (as shown above) you put and continue the claim AFTER changing tubes and claimed the amp wasn’t working, the loop wasn’t working, and there was a Wah and flanger noise? If it was still problematic, why were you selling it as mint? Why lie about something so silly? Actually don’t answer that. I’m done here. I just wanted to let people know how wrong you treated me and the entire integrity of honesty and amp selling/trading. It’s gonna be hard for me to feel confident going forward. You don’t need to defend your character, but people should know to be weary of you in the future.

I didn’t want drama, and I absolutely apologize for the slandering and the blasting. I was highly wronged, and I hope going forward you treat the next person with honesty and integrity. I could have put a lot more here, but I don’t feel the need.

I’m trying to be objective. But you’re totally contradicting yourself here:

This is shady as fuck. Thanks for the heads up.

This isn't guitar center bud. Should always be prepared to get a bad tube on a used amp. Even brand new amps have defective tubes out of the box or damaged from shipping. If you want a warranty go to GC or buy new.

Yeah technically you can file a dispute for this and I can understand simply not knowing what the issue was and filing a claim but reading between the lines with all the other comments and other ads and forums, etc...yikes. As a forum member with previous deals you should already know tubes are made of glass.

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"Your cab on the floor becomes one with the earth, thus more resonant."

"It is better to ask for forgiveness than permission"

So shady....

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Shady is right ! Abbath, you listed the amp on Reverb for sale while you had an open paypal claim on it for being defective ? Only way this would make sense in your favor is if you dropped the claim first and then listed it for sale , not the other way around.

Post this on TGP and ban this fuck

Second this motion.

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F&@king Cunucks 😜

Don't ban him but change his title from Plank Cranker Trainee to Scam Alert

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People = shit


Your new lies are contradicting your old lies. The few things we actually have is our character, once that is lost you are worthless.

Ban his IP so he doesn't come back under a new name.

Anyone who files a paypal claim over tube issues deserves to be banned from rig talk. When you buy a used amp you better be ready to roll all tubes. If you don’t understand this you have a lot of learning to do. Bye Felicia.

This type of fraudulent behavior is really becoming prevalent these days, esp on ebay... damn shame

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Don't lump all Canadians into one scam pile! 😂

Question to the OP. I dont think this has been asked, if so pardon me.. How did the amp sound when you played it? It's a handwired Bogner so anything short of fucking awsome would shock me. Abbath has tons of amp playing experience so this entire explanation on his behalf reeks of shit. Conspiracy? Someone's out to sell you gear and slander your reputation? Laughable! U never ripped anyone off in your life" so holding funds while you flip an amp u bought isnt ripping anyone off, no theft , so I guess as long as he gets his money as he did that's not wrong at all. Glad to know! Now the image used to list the amp while you were claiming it was defective been fattbags original photo would this have even been detected and wed all be your bitches obviously WOW

The Helios Eclipse is insanely good! Here is me playing that exact amp before it was shipped out, one dream theater piece and one freestyle play on Eclipse+ mode.



https://youtu.be/Lgk_BIilenc

https://youtu.be/K9P_OyMhxyU

Sounds really good.