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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 11, 2015 2:11am 
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Can someone explain to me what these mean? I know a handful or two of scales and the notes on the board and like 3 modes of every scale I know but nothing about theory. Theory truly interests me and I've tried looking it up but seems like I find something that skips what the 3rds and 5ths actuLly mean. :doh:


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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 11, 2015 2:29am 
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minor 2nd
major 2nd
minor3rd
major3rd
perfect 4th
aug 4th
perfect 5th
minor 6th
major 6th
minor 7th
major 7th
Octave

There are your intervals^
The root, 3rds and 5ths are your basic chord, i.e. ACE
A is root
C is a minor 3rd above the root
E is the perfect 5th above the root

A lot of rock/metal only plays the root and fifth (which is technically NOT a chord, as you need 3 notes for the chord)

Perfect 4th is basically a 5th inverted; a 4th below ACE is the E

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PostPosted: Thu, Mar 12, 2015 9:03pm 
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So in this case the major 2nd would be B? And the minor 6th would be F?


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PostPosted: Thu, Mar 12, 2015 9:04pm 
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If A is the root?


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PostPosted: Mon, Mar 16, 2015 1:09pm 
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Yes, that is it!

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PostPosted: Mon, Mar 16, 2015 1:13pm 
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The Trooper by Iron Maiden is a good example of how to apply this info.

The opening riff has harmony guitars in 3rds, sometimes minor 3rd or major 3rd depending on the note you need to keep it in the scale:


e-----------------------------
B-----------------------------
G-----------------------------
D-----------------------------
A-7--7-7-5----5--5-5-3-------
E-----------7-----------5-----

Harmonized in thirds

e-----------------------------
B-----------------------------
G-----------------------------
D-----------------------------
A-10--10-10-9----9--9-9-7---
E--------------10----------8-

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PostPosted: Mon, Mar 16, 2015 1:18pm 
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crankyrayhanky wrote:
Yes, that is it!

Aren't 2nds refered to as "9ths" though? :confused:

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PostPosted: Mon, Mar 16, 2015 1:21pm 
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Bronco wrote:
crankyrayhanky wrote:
Yes, that is it!

Aren't 2nds refered to as "9ths" though? :confused:


It depends on the pitch

E>F is a minor 2nd, but put that F an octave up and it is a minor 9th, for example:

    ROOT E
    minor 2nd F
    major 2nd
    minor3rd
    major3rd
    perfect 4th
    aug 4th
    perfect 5th
    minor 6th
    major 6th
    minor 7th
    major 7th
    OCTAVE E
    minor 9th F
    major 9th


Or in guitar speak:
    open low E >1st fret F is a 2nd
    open lowE > 13th fret F is a 9th

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PostPosted: Thu, Apr 23, 2015 4:19pm 
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Cool man, thanks for clearing that up for me. Really wish I paid attention more in music class in school. I was probably busy skipping music class to play guitar but I shoulda went here and there.


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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 13, 2016 10:20am 
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Honestly I don't think his question was answered. The reason a major third is what it is, is because it's the 3rd note up the major scale from the root. Minor 3rds,7th etc is that number of notes up the minor scale. Perfect 4th and 5th are perfect because they are both the same in both minor and major scales. Sorry fir the necro bump.


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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 13, 2016 8:42pm 
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I get what you're saying, but that may confuse the crap out of most newbies... unless of course OP has taken classes during the last 2 years since his post.

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PostPosted: Wed, Dec 14, 2016 3:57am 
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Sorry I'm old. 42. I thought I was being ez on them! :)


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PostPosted: Tue, Mar 13, 2018 11:30pm 
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I think this should be a pegged post. Very basic, but much needed information.

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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 18, 2018 6:17pm 
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Here's some popular chord diagrams with the roots (1), fifths (5) and thirds (3) notated. The capital M means a major third. The small m means a minor third. Chords that contain only 1s and 5s are fifth chords also known as power chords. I made this to help me understand music theory.

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PostPosted: Sat, Feb 23, 2019 10:36pm 
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critter cam wrote:
Here's some popular chord diagrams with the roots (1), fifths (5) and thirds (3) notated. The capital M means a major third. The small m means a minor third. Chords that contain only 1s and 5s are fifth chords also known as power chords. I made this to help me understand music theory.

Cool little pict-o-chart.

I still refer to this little black book, I can't remember the name of it - but I do believe it's called "The Little Black Book of Scales" - and it's come in so handy.... Gonna see if I can find it.

Yep - this one:
Attachment:
Screen Shot 2019-02-23 at 7.35.29 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-02-23 at 7.35.29 PM.png [ 53.32 KiB | Viewed 1737 times ]

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PostPosted: Sat, Feb 23, 2019 10:37pm 
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I play a lot by ear when composing stuff, but in order to get things layered on top and get sense of difference and tension, I've loved having this book handy in order to see what I can slap on top of my root or key or whatever to give it something "melodic" but unpredictable. I can't stand predictable music.

YMMV.

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PostPosted: Sat, Feb 23, 2019 10:44pm 
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I could use that book^ I gravitated towards all online stuff now like:
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/
That site was incredible to me as a way to tie it all together by manipulating notes and exploring. I use the Reverse Scale tab the most to help identify my improv riffs and see where they belong and where they are mapped out.

I have a Guitar Grimoire of Scales around here somewhere...need to dig that up, I think I have an arpeggio edition too

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 24, 2019 3:01pm 
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crankyrayhanky wrote:
I could use that book^ I gravitated towards all online stuff now like:
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/
That site was incredible to me as a way to tie it all together by manipulating notes and exploring. I use the Reverse Scale tab the most to help identify my improv riffs and see where they belong and where they are mapped out.

I have a Guitar Grimoire of Scales around here somewhere...need to dig that up, I think I have an arpeggio edition too

The nice thing about the book is it's visceral - and you don't get led too temptingly to start down any rabbit holes as (I find) one would with the screen flipped up.

It's basic - but gives you what you need and more. It's beat to shit - cuz I use it a lot sometimes just on paper when writing lines and melodies to be layered. Great book.

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PostPosted: Tue, Sep 17, 2019 5:05pm 
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Fuego wrote:
Honestly I don't think his question was answered. The reason a major third is what it is, is because it's the 3rd note up the major scale from the root. Minor 3rds,7th etc is that number of notes up the minor scale. Perfect 4th and 5th are perfect because they are both the same in both minor and major scales. Sorry fir the necro bump.

Not quite that would make phrygian the go to minor and make the diminished 5th in locrian a minor 5th.

Perfect interval, unison, P4th, P5th
Minor, 2, b3, b6, b7
Major, 2, 3, 6, 7
Diminished, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Augmented, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Why? We can use enharmonic names and not worry. I mean G melodic minor is G, A,Bb,C,D,E,F#... spelled "correct" it'd be Abb, Bbb, Cbb, Dbb, Ebb, Fb, Gb...
What nonsense.
But there is a use if you know that a Dm7 arpeggio is d f a c making it a Db and thinking Db Fb Ab Cb keeps the naming logic in check.

Also intervals invert and add up to 9 (8 numbers per octave starting on 1).
So c to a is either M6 or m3
Or C to F# aug4 or Dim5 etc...

As for 13 vs 6 etc...
In scales we usually reference up to the octave in chords the 13.

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PostPosted: Wed, Sep 18, 2019 12:06am 
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degenaro wrote:
Fuego wrote:
Honestly I don't think his question was answered. The reason a major third is what it is, is because it's the 3rd note up the major scale from the root. Minor 3rds,7th etc is that number of notes up the minor scale. Perfect 4th and 5th are perfect because they are both the same in both minor and major scales. Sorry fir the necro bump.

Not quite that would make phrygian the go to minor and make the diminished 5th in locrian a minor 5th.

Perfect interval, unison, P4th, P5th
Minor, 2, b3, b6, b7
Major, 2, 3, 6, 7
Diminished, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Augmented, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Why? We can use enharmonic names and not worry. I mean G melodic minor is G, A,Bb,C,D,E,F#... spelled "correct" it'd be Abb, Bbb, Cbb, Dbb, Ebb, Fb, Gb...
What nonsense.
But there is a use if you know that a Dm7 arpeggio is d f a c making it a Db and thinking Db Fb Ab Cb keeps the naming logic in check.

Also intervals invert and add up to 9 (8 numbers per octave starting on 1).
So c to a is either M6 or m3
Or C to F# aug4 or Dim5 etc...

As for 13 vs 6 etc...
In scales we usually reference up to the octave in chords the 13.


Just adding to this, the "perfect" label is referring to how consonant an interval is, and so perfect intervals are considered to be the most consonant intervals. In fact, octaves and unisons are considered perfect intervals too. Something else interesting is that there's a very old debate as to whether or not the 4th is really a perfect interval.


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PostPosted: Wed, Aug 19, 2020 4:22am 
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Well, thirds are what western music is built on.
This is where our ears have been trained over all.
Then the basis of western music is then based
on the I, IV, V progression, or a slight variation.

The Numerical meaning of thirds, fourth's, fifths
is the scale degrees of the key your in.
So this is the numbers of any scale we are in.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
8 is the same as 1, known as the octave.

Stacking thirds, is called triadic harmony.
This is the building blocks of western music.
And also where are ears gravitate to when
we are building a slue of notes, or writing.

The I, IV, V chords are built on stacked thirds.
And cover the complete scale or key we are in.
This is the I, IV, V built on the numbers of the scale.

I = 1, 3, 5
4 = 4, 6, 8(1)
5 = 5, 7, 9(2)

Or like this too.

Going bottom to top
from 1, 4, 5 on the very bottom row up.
5 - - - - 8 -2
3 - - - - 6 -7
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
(this is not formatting correctly
The BB Code is removing the
second space I am trying to use.
This is more the parser for PHP
and the BB Code. The parser
is what writes out the code after
we type something out.
The Parser is hard coded to see
only one space.)

As you can easily see these
are in fact stacked thirds.

and when we see the notes on the music
staff this is how the notes are written, stacked.

As a lot of music today like,
rock and metal use only the
1 and 5th scale degrees
when playing the I, IV, V progression.

This leaves all kinds of space for wild
sounds, keyboards, singing, cranked up amps
fill this sound very fast as dose effects and layering
tracks etc, or even leaving this musical space for the
bass player, and even the singer if the music is written good.

Jazz uses a bit more "stacking" of thirds, forths, fifths
and the numbering for them can be seen as basic addition
on top of what we have seen above on "Going bottom to top" I wrote out.


The numbering system for jazz type of chordal stacking is then
based on the same 1 - 8 system? but after 7 we have then
the numbering system like this, the bottom row is the complete scale, and key.
and the top row is the scale degrees after 7. still the same scale degrees, but
now they are written one octave above the normal 1 to 8 scale degrees.
Mathematically an octave is twice the amount above the underlying scale degree
But here we are looking at the stacked notes of the key above the scale we are in.

8, - 9,- 10, - 11, - 12, - 13 - 14, - 15
1, - 2, - 3, -- 4, --- 5, --- 6, - 7, -- 8
(this is not formatting correctly)

So at this point? we have every scale degree covered
and then we also have the octave above this scale as well.
Stacking notes is all harmonic related, chords, etc.

I will add some more to this as I get it formatted right.
It's hard to format this here as the alignment gets messed
up from using the non standardized BB Code.

But this a great start and I might even add even more
as to see how everything related to a well known written song
on the musical staff as to aid in ear training and sight reading.

The resolution of these scale notes as they move about
in a song is where I am heading, but this should prove
rather hard on me as the BB code is hard to work with.

Updated Aug 30th, 8:45 PM
I will being adding more as I write everything out above
in Ardour DAW so we can see it and hear it. I will make
a video of the above content and then see how that goes.

We have no formal means of writing music in the digital
world, not like we do for say screen writing? Or TV over all.

So using a tool like Ardour may help some.
I am currently using Ubuntu Studio 20 LTS.

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PostPosted: Thu, Sep 24, 2020 12:36pm 
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Bronco wrote:
crankyrayhanky wrote:
Yes, that is it!

Aren't 2nds refered to as "9ths" though? :confused:


It depends on which octave they are placed. They sound different and that's what the 9th is trying to capture. Don't confuse music theory with music, music theory is trying to understand and explain why things sound good according to western music, but music can be made without adhering to those rules. It's an explanatory tool, not necessarily a prescriptive set of rules.


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