School me on Marshall Mods

LukeCurd

New member
Don't worry, I killed my evil twin and he won't be coming back. :yes:

I am trying to trace the lineage of modded marshalls.
Jose
Golub
Cameron
FJA
Fortin
Friedman
the list goes on.

1. I would like to now the main tonal variations and how extra gain stages are achieved.
2. The going price for a gain mod with depth control.
3. The preferred Marshall platform to start modding. mk1 mk2 mk3?
4. Contact info on folks doing mods at this time. There are so many that do not advertise I would like them to have the opportunity to earn some business.
 
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Is that you?
 
LukeCurd":3ee8yc5j said:
Don't worry, I killed my evil twin and he won't be coming back. :yes:

I am trying to trace the lineage of modded marshalls.
Jose
Golub
Cameron
FJA
Fortin
Friedman
the list goes on.
Jose Arredondo:
classic schematic is a super lead with an extra preamp tube and the infamous "jose master"
each input has an extra cascaded gain stage
basically 3 stages + cathode follower using one plexi input (like a slightly hotrodded jcm 800)
the "jose master" is, at first a master volume, which allows you to crank the gain knob without cranking volume, like in the jmp/jcm master volume series, but the special thing about it is the zener diodes, which gives an extra bite

Suhr x Golub:
the Golub Lead mod is supposedly a variation on the Suhr/Custom Audio OD100/3+SE circuit
the Suhr would require at least one extra tube for the gain circuit, one more for a tube buffered loop
not much familiar with the Golub version, but if it's any close to the Suhr, than must have lots of low mids, bass and a ton of saturation
that's the real Doug Aldrich tone everybody is always searching here
fat, compressed, but really punchy with tons of sustain

Cameron:
his Jose seems to be a heavily tweaked version of the original Jose
lot more gain, tighter and heavier low end
only would require extra tube if you wanna maintain parallel inputs, like on the original Jose
so also 3 stages + cathode follower
I suppose the high gain x low gain thing is about the engaging the diodes on the master volume, but someone might correct me on this
the Aldrich mod is 4 gain stages, no cathode follower, so no extra tubes, unless you want a tube buffered loop or dedicated clean
not having a cathode follower changes a lot more than actually having the extra gain stage, for my ears
you get a tighter picking response, more in your face dense mids, a bit like a Splawn mod
I usually prefer the openness and smoother compression of a cathode followered amp, but I love the extra articulation of not having one, and that's probably why Doug uses it for the leads only
I have no idea about the other Cameron mods, like the ocean and the atomica

FJA
I have no idea what Jerry does as well... but by the sound, I'd guess he adds gain on first stages and clamps a lot of the noise and fizz out
his amps seems to have that "punch in the face, then step back" thing
maybe he doesn't get the credit he deserves on the marshall mods cause he's been the "peavey guy" for a long time

Fortin
Mike is one of the coolest guys on the amp mod market
he's kind of a mad scientist and he's always experimentating new things on his mods, but the guy truly knows his work
he seems to be quite obsessed on the circuit details and the materials he use
loops, fancy depth controls, ultra high gain channels capable of cleaning up like a non-pushed plexi
his mods are a bit over the top for me, but are probably some of the most versatile and complete mods out there
if I ever go to canada, I'll be definitely getting something from him

Friedman
Dave makes some interesting stuff as well
and his also quite obsessed with the details, like capacitor brands, transformers, etc
the Marsha/Brown Eye amp is also Jose based, being 3 stage + CF on the brown eye mode and adding an extra stage in the front for the hairy brown eye mode, so the gain knob actually comes after the second stage (not sure how it affects the control capability)
saturation switch is supposedly a "jose" diode on the master
the Naked amp, and also the Budda Superdrive, designed by him, were based off the Naylor Superdrive 60
they have a quite peculiar (JCM based?) preamp section
different values from the usual marshall-voiced amps, though, but still 3 stage + cathode follower
bright cap/resistor filters before actual coupling caps is something quite weird that must have some very noticeable effect on how the amps sound
gain control seems to be after second stage as well
I have no idea what he does in the power amp, though, but probably a modern sounding negative feedback configuration and the naylor presence, which works differently from the regular marshall presence
tube buffered loop or dedicated clean channel would require extra tube in both cases
hairy brown eye mode requires extra tube (brown eye only won't)

The preferred Marshall platform to start modding. mk1 mk2 mk3?
super lead or lead 50 (original plexiface, metalface jmp or reissue), jmp mk2 master volume, jtm45, jcm 800 2203/2204 master volume (not the 2210/2205)
 
ericsabbath":3j5zxpqg said:
LukeCurd":3j5zxpqg said:
Don't worry, I killed my evil twin and he won't be coming back. :yes:

I am trying to trace the lineage of modded marshalls.
Jose
Golub
Cameron
FJA
Fortin
Friedman
the list goes on.
Jose Arredondo:
classic schematic is a super lead with an extra preamp tube and the infamous "jose master"
each input has an extra cascaded gain stage
basically 3 stages + cathode follower using one plexi input (like a slightly hotrodded jcm 800)
the "jose master" is, at first a master volume, which allows you to crank the gain knob without cranking volume, like in the jmp/jcm master volume series, but the special thing about it is the zener diodes, which gives an extra bite

Suhr x Golub:
the Golub Lead mod is supposedly a variation on the Suhr/Custom Audio OD100/3+SE circuit
the Suhr would require at least one extra tube for the gain circuit, one more for a tube buffered loop
not much familiar with the Golub version, but if it's any close to the Suhr, than must have lots of low mids, bass and a ton of saturation
that's the real Doug Aldrich tone everybody is always searching here
fat, compressed, but really punchy with tons of sustain

Cameron:
his Jose seems to be a heavily tweaked version of the original Jose
lot more gain, tighter and heavier low end
only would require extra tube if you wanna maintain parallel inputs, like on the original Jose
so also 3 stages + cathode follower
I suppose the high gain x low gain thing is about the engaging the diodes on the master volume, but someone might correct me on this
the Aldrich mod is 4 gain stages, no cathode follower, so no extra tubes, unless you want a tube buffered loop or dedicated clean
not having a cathode follower changes a lot more than actually having the extra gain stage, for my ears
you get a tighter picking response, more in your face dense mids, a bit like a Splawn mod
I usually prefer the openness and smoother compression of a cathode followered amp, but I love the extra articulation of not having one, and that's probably why Doug uses it for the leads only
I have no idea about the other Cameron mods, like the ocean and the atomica

FJA
I have no idea what Jerry does as well... but by the sound, I'd guess he adds gain on first stages and clamps a lot of the noise and fizz out
his amps seems to have that "punch in the face, then step back" thing
maybe he doesn't get the credit he deserves on the marshall mods cause he's been the "peavey guy" for a long time

Fortin
Mike is one of the coolest guys on the amp mod market
he's kind of a mad scientist and he's always experimentating new things on his mods, but the guy truly knows his work
he seems to be quite obsessed on the circuit details and the materials he use
loops, fancy depth controls, ultra high gain channels capable of cleaning up like a non-pushed plexi
his mods are a bit over the top for me, but are probably some of the most versatile and complete mods out there
if I ever go to canada, I'll be definitely getting something from him

Friedman
Dave makes some interesting stuff as well
and his also quite obsessed with the details, like capacitor brands, transformers, etc
the Marsha/Brown Eye amp is also Jose based, being 3 stage + CF on the brown eye mode and adding an extra stage in the front for the hairy brown eye mode, so the gain knob actually comes after the second stage (not sure how it affects the control capability)
saturation switch is supposedly a "jose" diode on the master
the Naked amp, and also the Budda Superdrive, designed by him, were based off the Naylor Superdrive 60
they have a quite peculiar (JCM based?) preamp section
different values from the usual marshall-voiced amps, though, but still 3 stage + cathode follower
bright cap/resistor filters before actual coupling caps is something quite weird that must have some very noticeable effect on how the amps sound
gain control seems to be after second stage as well
I have no idea what he does in the power amp, though, but probably a modern sounding negative feedback configuration and the naylor presence, which works differently from the regular marshall presence
tube buffered loop or dedicated clean channel would require extra tube in both cases
hairy brown eye mode requires extra tube (brown eye only won't)

The preferred Marshall platform to start modding. mk1 mk2 mk3?
super lead or lead 50 (original plexiface, metalface jmp or reissue), jmp mk2 master volume, jtm45, jcm 800 2203/2204 master volume (not the 2210/2205)
Give this man his free beer ticket :thumbsup:
 
ericsabbath: After reading your very articulate and intelligent post I have a few more questions. Also, thanks so much for your time and effort.

"Suhr x Golub"
The crunch mod is something I am very interested in. I believe it adds slightly more gain but without the extra tube and has a more aggressive voicing.? I am not a fan of the compressed se/lead mod.

John Suhr & Martin Goulub & Bob Bradshaw
If forum myth serves me, they all worked at one time for CAE? Bob did the system design, John designed the speaker cabinets, amps, guitars etc. I am trying to find were Martin fits in. I remember a dust up a few year back after Diamond amps first got off the ground. Martin was advertised as designing the spec op however John Suhr felt it was a little too close to his design. Martin now works at LA sound design? This stuff is very confusing.

There is also a rumor that CAE is about to have some legal issues and I wonder what impact that has on the OD100 brand and production of the said circuit design.

"Cathode follower"
"Cascaded gain stages"
"Diodes"? Are these clipping diodes like the silver jubilee?

It seems how the extra gain stages are achieved has a drastic impact of the voicing & response of the amplifier.

I wonder if these mods can be adapted to other single channel 100 watt amps of the time. Say hi watt,or univox for instance.
 
mods added to the list:

David Bray
Reinhold Bogner
Peter Diezel & Peter Stapfer
Scott Splawn
Mike Soldano
......... to be continued.
 
Don't forget Metal Head Mods, which is a pretty unique one. I believe the guys name is Elan (spelling?) the amps were made known by Dino from fear factory in the early days of fear factory.

From what I gather and have seen the mod uses a stock marshall front end, phase inverter and power section and adds a "urinal cake" which essentially is a circuit that contains all the mods that goes in front of the first gain stage of a stock 2203 circuit. All the components are inside of a urinal cake looking object and glued to the inside of the chassis with the wires coming out of it, which makes it very difficult to reverse or repair. This mod includes a noise gate, fx loop, bass boost, and gain boost. Essentially I think it is a parallel gain stage or stages added rather then the typical series gain stage.
 
Rig Talk does not condone the molestation of Marshall amps for purposes of gain and improving your playing ability. What are you hiding?
 
Folks, I am not forgetting I am discovering. Please describe these upgrades to Marshall amps to the best of your ability.
 
Lee Jackson's mods were in high demand back in the day...they don't seem to be talked about much these days though.
 
dawnofdreamx97":g4wsiope said:
Don't forget Metal Head Mods, which is a pretty unique one. I believe the guys name is Elan (spelling?) the amps were made known by Dino from fear factory in the early days of fear factory.

From what I gather and have seen the mod uses a stock marshall front end, phase inverter and power section and adds a "urinal cake" which essentially is a circuit that contains all the mods that goes in front of the first gain stage of a stock 2203 circuit. All the components are inside of a urinal cake looking object and glued to the inside of the chassis with the wires coming out of it, which makes it very difficult to reverse or repair. This mod includes a noise gate, fx loop, bass boost, and gain boost. Essentially I think it is a parallel gain stage or stages added rather then the typical series gain stage.

that's the most messed up amp ever
saw metalhead modded JMP 2203 going for $700 a year ago
probably worth the price, but if anything goes wrong...
Mike Fortin owns a couple of these
having parallel stages with proper bass filtering in a high gain channel sounds interesting andgives a different feel
like the vht deliverance and the mesa caliber series, I think

the first krank modded marshalls looked terrible as well
 
LukeCurd":2z08tdh0 said:
ericsabbath: After reading your very articulate and intelligent post I have a few more questions. Also, thanks so much for your time and effort.

"Suhr x Golub"
The crunch mod is something I am very interested in. I believe it adds slightly more gain but without the extra tube and has a more aggressive voicing.? I am not a fan of the compressed se/lead mod.

John Suhr & Martin Goulub & Bob Bradshaw
If forum myth serves me, they all worked at one time for CAE? Bob did the system design, John designed the speaker cabinets, amps, guitars etc. I am trying to find were Martin fits in. I remember a dust up a few year back after Diamond amps first got off the ground. Martin was advertised as designing the spec op however John Suhr felt it was a little too close to his design. Martin now works at LA sound design? This stuff is very confusing.

There is also a rumor that CAE is about to have some legal issues and I wonder what impact that has on the OD100 brand and production of the said circuit design.

"Cathode follower"
"Cascaded gain stages"
"Diodes"? Are these clipping diodes like the silver jubilee?

It seems how the extra gain stages are achieved has a drastic impact of the voicing & response of the amplifier.

I wonder if these mods can be adapted to other single channel 100 watt amps of the time. Say hi watt,or univox for instance.

never heard of the Golub crunch mode
maybe it's similar to the crunch channel of the CAE preamp, which is also a lot like Cameron's low gain Jose, as far as I remember
that wouldn't require extra tubes
Martin Golub assembled the amps along with John Suhr, but as a employee, not a partner
he works at LA Sound Design, but I don't know if he's the onwer
Diamond is a partnership with Jeff Diamant (hence the name)

cathode follower is a preamp triode (half tube) wired to convert the high impedance output signal of a previous gain stage to a low impedance signal, usually before the tonestack section (EQ controls) or before a loop send
technically, I don't even know what's the purpose of adding this, but it does affect the tone, specially on heavily overdriven channels
it's not a gain stage, so it doesn't amplify or drive the signal, but it compresses it and seems to tame the harder sounding mids, giving a smoother, warmer and more open distorted tone, sacrificing a little a little articulation, but adding some string separation clarity, more 3d depth
most classic and modern marshalls have this (but their higher gain models are so oversatured that all the qualities from the CF get lost)
even the JCM 900 4100, which has an almost 100% solod state preamp has this at the end of the gain circuit to smooth things down... just like the valvestate series
exceptions without a cathode follower are the jubilee, the 2210 and some other rare models
they may sound good, but they sound and feel different, more hard and edgy sounding, and that's not only the diodes fault
they simply sound more dense and in-your-face
amps with CF: super lead, jtm45, jcm 800 2204, soldanos, rectifiers, vox ac30, bogners, diezels, egnaters, evh 5150III
amps without cf: silver jubilee, cameron aldrich, splawns, mesa mark II/III/IV/V, oranges, peaveys, engls, fenders

cascaded gain stages means having gain stages wired in series, like a JCM 800
a non-master marshall has 2 stages running in parallel for the inputs and then a a cascaded stage with a cathode follower
to achieve higher saturation, most brand use extra cascaded stages, as they multiply the previous gain instead of adding (not really a good explanation, but that's how I understand it)
if you use only one input of a plexi, you have 2 cascaded stages
a JCM 2203 has 3 cascaded stages, a peavey 5150 has 6 cascaded stages
some amps mix both cascaded and parallel in a multiple gain stage setup, like the marshall vintage modern, which was an attempt to make a high gain jtm45

the jose mode does have a subtle diode clipping on the master volume, but it's not really a solid state gain stage, like those on the JCM 900 dual reverb

yes, extra gain stages and how they are voiced and wired can make a ton of difference
really depends on the design

lots of other amps could take the usual famous marshall mods
some hiwatts were pretty close to plexis in basic circuit structure, but with a different voicing
most distorted amps in the market are marshall based
 
LukeCurd":cbjrmqgo said:
mods added to the list:

David Bray
Reinhold Bogner
Peter Diezel & Peter Stapfer
Scott Splawn
Mike Soldano
......... to be continued.

Bray
not sure about the difference between his mods
but checking pictures of my friends JTM45 and some plexis around internet, I only noticed that he installs a post phase inverter master volume and gets the inputs jumped internally
he also replaces a few cathode capacitors (do not confuse with a cathode follower) with some sort of oil cap, but I'm not sure if he changes the values (which would change the amps voicing)
and he adds a cap to the v1b gain stage as well, and that must boost the gain and picking response... depending on the value it might boost upper mids as well
noticed some swapped components, but they had stock values, so I'm not sure Bray did these changes
everything else in the amps was stock
so basically: PPIMV control, jumpered input, some mysterious mojo cap and a bit of gain boost
his mods are probably the most natural Marshall sounding ones, as he just tries to achieve what a cranked marshalls sounds like with very small changes
no hair metal monster, just pure classic marshall tone

Bogner
probably one of my favorites
not sure what he did in his Marshall mods, but doubt it was much different from his amps designs
the shiva and blue channel of the ecstasy follow the idea of the jose, but without diodes
they're voiced to sound fatter and warmer than a JCM 800
the red channel adds one stage, driving it into high gain level
the uberschall doesn't fall so far from the tree, but it has a very modern preamp voicing, with tons of gain and low end
the power section has lots of mad science in it, with preset depth and presence tricks in a way that the presence pot act completely different from a regular amp, so it tweaks up to midrange levels
a shiva or blue channel circuit could be done on a JCM/Plexi without messing a lot and wouldn't require extra tubes (unless you want the shiva clean as well)
an uberschall preamp mod on a marshall without the extra gain stage of the uber would be a lot like an Egnater Seminar

Diezel
only familiar with the Einstein and VH4S
I have no idea what's going on inside the einstein, but tonewise, it's pretty close to the vh4s, but without all the dedicated channels and controls
talking about the mega and lead channels only (ch1 mode3 and channel 2 on the einstein, ch3 and ch4 on the vh4s)
first thing is that a lot of the diezel tone comes from the power amp and the materials
the ch3 and ch4 sound very close to each other, the ch4 being more bassy and saturated (adds one gain stage)
the ch3 is already very saturated as it is, so people tend to prefer it over the lead channel
circuit is actually a lot like the shiva and some of the jose children, which was a big surprise for me
very small tweaks and voltage differences just makes it a completely different sounding (pre)amp
it's a lot more saturated and much tighter sounding
very different crunch going on in the mids, but it's also a VERY mid heavy amp, not the scooped metal monster some people fear
Peter's mods on marshall were VERY extensive, almost like his later amps, but a ch3 type mod would be possible and not really a huge work
I doubt he's accepting mod jobs these days, though
my bandmate built a ch3 based circuit in a MXR sized pedal with 2 tubes laid inside it
it's the best preamp I ever heard in person, and gets pretty close to the amp
he did the same circuit in a cheap rack preamp I have, but mine sounds more like a shiva without the boost switch engaged than like a vh4
no near as much saturation as his pedal or the diezel, but still gets pretty high gain with a proper booster
I might record something if I find my interface

Splawn
his amps are also pretty close to his old mods
the rewires the cathode follower as a 4th gain stage and tweaks all the others for a different less mid spikey voicing
the also adds a lot of switches to tweak the amps voicings and gain levels
he usually adds a solid state loop, so no extra tube unless you want dedicated clean channel
as I said before, no cathode follower, so it's a cutting and articulated hot rodded tone
not really a round souped up 70's marshall tone, but more of a hard rock edgy thing
tons of articulation

Soldano
his circuit changed the face of modern distortion
he added a couple tubes, gain stage and a tube buffered loop
well... not much different from the other guys... but he came up with a different idea for hot rodding a marshall
he did add a ton of gain to the regular stages like some of the others, but then he added an almost clean stage right in the middle (what they called "cold clipping")
this stage adds very little gain compared to the others (even a stock marshall stage), but it boosts the sustain and compression in a different way that doesn't oversature the tone, putting things in a new conception of clear high gain, instead of the midrangy, grainy and saturated 80's hotrodded marshall tone
that's pretty much what mesa, hughes & kettner and framus copied in the rectifier, triamp, dragon and cobra amps
this and the higher quality parts combined with 6L6 tubes instead of EL34's changed everything
as a marshall mod, you can only do a soldano mod if you want the crunch channel only (3 stages, and no cold clipping stage) and no loop... but the classic soldano tone is the lead channel, so you need at least one extra tube
 
Cool thread, but no input on Wizard amps?
Ok maybe not a Marshall mod but a Hiwatt.
But is not Hiwatt>Marshall in many ways?

I've never had the pleasure of owning one, but I still think they're as purdy as can be:
moderncircuit.jpg


Also a word on the Dumble OD.
AFAIK it's the only amp that inserted the extra gain stages after the tone stack, unlike most Marshall Mods or Marshall based amp designs, again AFAIK. Can anyone elaborate on this?
 
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