NAD #2 - Fortin Cali

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maddnotez

maddnotez

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Well the Cali arrived. Interesting amp, I really like it upon first impression but I will need a lot of time with this one. There are tons of switches and to be quite honest it is kind of hard to dial in for me.

It chugs, can get pretty brutal and TBH it sounds pretty fucking sick to me. Does not have to always be "klanky" as Fortin's can be known for which is good.

I do dislike a few things however. It is pretty finicky and hard to dial in as stated above but I literally just got it so I really need to dive in and learn the amp.

On first impressions it sounds better at low volumes. I prefer saturated tones and while this does have a SAT option (awesome), when you turn the amp up it seems to get thicker and lose the saturation. Definitely something I need to look into learning - how to keep the saturated tone at a high volume?

EDIT - This paragraph was user error........I think my biggest dislike so far is the way that the actual saturation set up. The bass knob has a pull option that engages the SAT....But then what happens to the bass? No idea, no way to control the Bass when Sat is engaged. Pretty stupid if you ask me. I guess it becomes a fixed frequency. Some of the many switches can definitely adjust the "thump" but I would prefer this instead: Instead of having THREE bright switches (what the fuck?) maybe have only 2 and then its own SAT switch or even an extra dial or something. IDK this is just foreign to me.

The white tolex looks pretty fucking awesome in person which surprised me.

The volume taper is horrible. Does not really bother me but I know a lot of players hate this kind of thing. Seems to go from 0 to 8,000 pretty quickly but on the other hand it can get LOUD for what I think is a 50w amp which is win.

I am new to Fortin amps, first one I have ever played and I have spent maybe 15 minutes with the dials so take all of this with a grain of salt.

Does it sound killer? Definitely.

Is it a perfect amp? Definitely not. (does that even exist?)

Is it worth the super mega price tag? Idk, it seems to be a pretty awesome amp and I like it, well built and I am not quite sure what I can get the amp to do just yet so that is TBD for me but it does sound really good. It also has that "rare" I will only build 200 of these amps Fortin Aura so I will sell this for $10k if anyone is interested.

Here is my obligatory cell phone clip :love: Keep in mind the speaker setup is garbage in this cab.

Caparison Dellinger 7 AXFM
Maxon OD 808 (thanks napalmdeath)
Peavey MS412 - 2 K85 on bottom and op top it has a K70 and a Marshall GM speaker, yikes. Need to fix my setup, was just a quick buy because I was cab-less but anyway check it out.

Give me some time with the amp and I may change my opinion on some things. Overall killer amp and I am not mad.

Edit: Disregard my sloppy playing and I wanted to add I feel this amp definitely needs a boost pedal. Doesn't bother me too much, I typically prefer a boost on 90% of the amps I have played anyway.

 
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Congrats! Had a chance to play one when my buddy had one. It's a very slick amp, very aggressive. My buddy ended up selling it and i bought Bubbastain's Fortin modded VTM 120 that i really love. Overall i think it's a great amp but requires a lot of time to dial in my experience.
 
DragonCrestPC said:
Congrats! Had a chance to play one when my buddy had one. It's a very slick amp, very aggressive. My buddy ended up selling it and i bought Bubbastain's Fortin modded VTM 120 that i really love. Overall i think it's a great amp but requires a lot of time to dial in my experience.
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Thanks, definitely will need a LOT of time with this amp to learn it.
Smashedguitarist said:
Sounds nice. Congrats, man.
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Thanks dude.
 
You are definitely screwed on the low end department for sure, those amps have absolutely no low end to begin with, super strange sounding to me. But if you enjoy it , cool, happy NAD.
 
VESmedic said:
You are definitely screwed on the low end department for sure, those amps have absolutely no low end to begin with, super strange sounding to me. But if you enjoy it , cool, happy NAD.
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I mean it's not a bass amp.
 
VESmedic said:
You are definitely screwed on the low end department for sure, those amps have absolutely no low end to begin with, super strange sounding to me. But if you enjoy it , cool, happy NAD.
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thats how the Fortin meshuggah is too, but it packs a punch when you dime it
 
After a bit more time with it I have to say I am finding a major problem.

At bedroom levels I have it sounding incredible but when I turn up the volume the amp just sounds like dogshit.

I kind of mentioned this in the first post but I can't emphasize this enough. It is to the point where I am wondering if I need new tubes? Do I not know how to dial this in? Or is this just in the design and not for me?

It is almost like the amp is struggling or something. Idk its hard to explain. Loses all the gain and saturation that I love when loud. Never experienced anything like it.


Can any cali owners comment on this?
 
maddnotez said:
I mean it's not a bass amp.
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That’s definitely true, but not my point obviously either. It lacks the low end of any similar tube amp I’ve heard, just incredibly thin sounding with no low end. I mean people can get mad at my directness but it is what it is. It’s not really a debatable point, they are extremely thin in the low end register compared to similar designs, whether you like that or not is up to you. I was just completely shocked everytime I’ve heard one mic’d up, or in olas videos on YouTube especially.
 
maddnotez said:
After a bit more time with it I have to say I am finding a major problem.

At bedroom levels I have it sounding incredible but when I turn up the volume the amp just sounds like dogshit.

I kind of mentioned this in the first post but I can't emphasize this enough. It is to the point where I am wondering if I need new tubes? Do I not know how to dial this in? Or is this just in the design and not for me?

It is almost like the amp is struggling or something. Idk its hard to explain. Loses all the gain and saturation that I love when loud. Never experienced anything like it.


Can any cali owners comment on this?
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retube it, drop the bias slightly colder as well... these amps are biased way too hot stock, which may be part of your problem. You don’t need a super hot power amp for a high gain preamp, the amp is just gonna fall apart the more you push it. Try dropping the bias and retube it, see if that helps.
 
VESmedic said:
That’s definitely true, but not my point obviously either. It lacks the low end of any similar tube amp I’ve heard, just incredibly thin sounding with no low end. I mean people can get mad at my directness but it is what it is. It’s not really a debatable point, they are extremely thin in the low end register compared to similar designs, whether you like that or not is up to you. I was just completely shocked everytime I’ve heard one mic’d up, or in olas videos on YouTube especially.
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The clips I've heard arent really that good. I've heard a couple select few that were very good.

But idk, it definitely has low end, its not like overwhelming by any means but it's there.

Will try to rebias though. Thanks for the suggestion. That's kind of what this amp will come down to for me. I love the tone at low volumes but I don't like it loud.

Also need a better cab for sure.
 
maddnotez said:
After a bit more time with it I have to say I am finding a major problem.

At bedroom levels I have it sounding incredible but when I turn up the volume the amp just sounds like dogshit.

I kind of mentioned this in the first post but I can't emphasize this enough. It is to the point where I am wondering if I need new tubes? Do I not know how to dial this in? Or is this just in the design and not for me?

It is almost like the amp is struggling or something. Idk its hard to explain. Loses all the gain and saturation that I love when loud. Never experienced anything like it.


Can any cali owners comment on this?
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Yeah that doesn't sound right at all. My buddy and I use to crank it. It also had a rich low end in my experience. Retube/rebias it.
 
As far as the push/ pull bass pot that engages the SAT, the bass should still be adjustable when pulled. The SAT should be either ON or OFF. That's how a switched pot works.
 
VESmedic said:
That’s definitely true, but not my point obviously either. It lacks the low end of any similar tube amp I’ve heard, just incredibly thin sounding with no low end. I mean people can get mad at my directness but it is what it is. It’s not really a debatable point, they are extremely thin in the low end register compared to similar designs, whether you like that or not is up to you. I was just completely shocked everytime I’ve heard one mic’d up, or in olas videos on YouTube especially.
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In any band I've been in, if there's a need for the guitar player to add more low end then we need a new bass player.
 
DragonCrestPC said:
Yeah that doesn't sound right at all. My buddy and I use to crank it. It also had a rich low end in my experience. Retube/rebias it.
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THIS. Big time. Every amp that was biased WAY too cold reacts in the same way as you are experiencing.
 
Racerxrated said:
THIS. Big time. Every amp that was biased WAY too cold reacts in the same way as you are experiencing.
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I couldn’t disagree more with amps designed like this. Every amp I drop the bias on immediately becomes much tighter , aggressive, bigger low end and bigger highs.. I have clips of my Diezel Einstein I did this with just to show the fact and kept everything else exactly the same in the signal chain, you can’t dispute it, Atleast with that amp in that scenario. My Herbert was exactly the same experience, and the super hot 5150s always sound like a flubby smooth bloated mess when turned up a bit compared to the “cold” stock 5150s.

Of course, this is all amp dependent and relative to the design of the power amp in what is considered “hot” or “cold”, for sure. The fortins I know for a fact though, Atleast stock, are ridiculously hot.

as far as needing a bass player, I’ll admit my experience is more specifically aimed at recording vs live, I have no opinion on fortins live to be honest. But for tracking, where you can get away with much more than you can live ( in regards to amount of bottom end or high end or lack of/excessive midrange for example) the fortin stuff was some of the absolute worst amps I’ve ever heard under a microphone. Olas videos of where he has 6 or 7 amps in the room shows this perfectly what I am talking about. I mean it’s awful. All mids, no highs, no low end, every other amp stomps it, and this was my experience in the room as well, let alone tracking one.

 
I played with the settings some more and made another clip closer to the amp. The low end comment is just flat out wrong. Maybe my shitty videos doesn't capture it but there are no issues with the low end. Yeah, it is not as devastating as an original ubershcall for example but pfft.

I checked the bias, when I first turned it on it read 19ma....After playing for a minute or so it read 25ma. The manual recommends 32ma so I assume this is already cold and I have not adjusted it. I am not that tech savvy frankly and idk. My cab is certainly not helping matters I can imagine. I will look into some new tubes however. I have not even opened it up yet so idk what is inside.

Anyway here is the clip. A little louder then before. Definitely loud enough to be miked at a gig for sure. Not that I always want ear blistering volumes but I was kind of like wtf when I cranked it up. This clip is straight in no boost and the more I play it the more I think it sounds better without a boost, at least with the 808. Have the MK.4.23 on the way so I will try that.


 
RedPlated said:
As far as the push/ pull bass pot that engages the SAT, the bass should still be adjustable when pulled. The SAT should be either ON or OFF. That's how a switched pot works.
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Yes I actually just realized that before this last clip I made. At first I thought it was the amount of Saturation but now I realize the knob is simply Saturation on or off and you can still control the Bass. User error.

This one is going to take a while, have never had an amp with so many interactive controls before so this is all foreign to me.
 
maddnotez said:
I played with the settings some more and made another clip closer to the amp. The low end comment is just flat out wrong. Maybe my shitty videos doesn't capture it but there are no issues with the low end. Yeah, it is not as devastating as an original ubershcall for example but pfft.

I checked the bias, when I first turned it on it read 19ma....After playing for a minute or so it read 25ma. The manual recommends 32ma so I assume this is already cold and I have not adjusted it. I am not that tech savvy frankly and idk. My cab is certainly not helping matters I can imagine. I will look into some new tubes however. I have not even opened it up yet so idk what is inside.

Anyway here is the clip. A little louder then before. Definitely loud enough to be miked at a gig for sure. Not that I always want ear blistering volumes but I was kind of like wtf when I cranked it up. This clip is straight in no boost and the more I play it the more I think it sounds better without a boost, at least with the 808. Have the MK.4.23 on the way so I will try that.


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Interesting about the bias for sure, maybe it needs new tubes but who knows, id venture to say your cab is definitely your next area to look into for sure, some speakers just don’t play well with certain amps. Unfortunately for you there aren’t tons of demos or internet “folklore” that become commonly agreed on thought when it comes to these amps and what works with them because there isn’t many of them out there( like a 5150 sounding great with a recto cab for example, pretty well established). So you may have to do alittle more digging and demoing cabs for yourself.

As far as low end, maybe in the room it sounds ok, again my comments were more directed at recording and tracking, I should have been more specific.
 
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