A good amp should record well.

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anomaly

anomaly

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No excuses. Any amp that is decent should be able to record well. If an amp just sounds good in the room but doesn't record well, then it's useless. How many gigs do people play un-mic'd? I can't think of seeing many, if any gigs without a mic on the cab. If it sounds good recorded then it's a good amp, if it sounds shitty or weird mic'd up then you might wanna reconsider your purchase. Ya, I know some amps take some work to sound right recorded, like the IIC+ for instance, but once a person has the hang of it, they;re usually able to make them sound killer.

In the room tone is basically just for hobbyists/bedroom players. But don't you find that if an amp records well then it usually sounds good in the room as well?
 
anomaly said:
In the room tone is basically just for hobbyists/bedroom players. But don't you find that if an amp records well then it usually sounds good in the room as well?
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Yes, but the recorded tone doesn't necessarily sound like what you hear in the room. Which is why making amp demos/reviews can be a tricky job because most people watching these are never going to record anything with said amp.
 
I really only care about how amp sounds with a 57 and V30/Greenback, for the most part. Those are my reference points and where I almost always end up with any rig.. I do play a lot of unmiked gigs so never really touch anything below 50 watts, but those gigs never really sound great, and the amp tone is the least of the problems.
 
I guess this is with the assumption the Mic and Pre are of decent quality? A bad set up can kill the capture.
 
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I think you're over-simplifying a very complex discussion. I think that in terms of close mic recording, with the right speaker pairing and a lot of time on mic placement you can get almost any amp to record well. Problem is most guys don't want to commit to keeping a whole bunch of different cabs around.

For example- how many killer albums have a 2 channel Recto on them? I've had a hell of a time getting a good close mic recorded tone out of MULTIPLE 2 ch Recs (Fs and Gs). It's almost embarrassing. Does that mean they suck? Or in hindsight was it because I was using 2005 & newer V30 cabs that are hella fizzy compared to older ones? Example-

 
Bad mic placement can kill a good sounding amp.

Good mic placement can make a tiny practice amp sound great. I think Nuno and Warren DeMartini had good luck with setups like that in the early days.
 
I have four EQ / volume settings on my amps:

1. In the room, at home sitting 6 feet from a V30 4X12 cab settings

2. Close mike for recording settings

3. In the room with a band (rehearsal / jamming) settings

4. Close mike for a live performance settings

These settings, and the amps I use for these applications tend to be very different. Some of the amps that I have enjoyed at home immensely don't record very well...some don't "cut-through" very well with a band. Others may record very well, but aren't as fun to play at home. I think you get the point. This has been my experience. The only amps that I have owned that I can honestly say does pretty well in all of these categories has been the Peavey 5150 and the Mark III Red Stripe. Right now, I am not jamming, playing out live or recording. So the amps I keep around are the ones that sound and FEEL best to me at home.
 
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sahlomonic said:
Bad mic placement can kill a good sounding amp.

Good mic placement can make a tiny practice amp sound great. I think Nuno and Warren DeMartini had good luck with setups like that in the early days.
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Good mic placement is not THAT hard to get.

Don't get me wrong, perfect mic placement is.

But you can at least get very usable results in the tried and true spot everyone is using. If not usable, at least familiar enough to be able to compare to everything else that's being mic'd out there. If it's not working at least sounding usable, then the amp is being dialed in wrong. Plain and simple.

There are some exceptions. Like amps that don't get along with certain speakers. But 95% of the time, it works.
 
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GJgo said:
I think you're over-simplifying a very complex discussion. I think that in terms of close mic recording, with the right speaker pairing and a lot of time on mic placement you can get almost any amp to record well. Problem is most guys don't want to commit to keeping a whole bunch of different cabs around.

For example- how many killer albums have a 2 channel Recto on them? I've had a hell of a time getting a good close mic recorded tone out of MULTIPLE 2 ch Recs (Fs and Gs). It's almost embarrassing. Does that mean they suck? Or in hindsight was it because I was using 2005 & newer V30 cabs that are hella fizzy compared to older ones? Example-

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That's the thing. If you're not pairing the amp with the right speaker, you're not getting the most of it in the room either.
 
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I think part of the issue here is people might be attempting to dial in an in-the-room round that doesn't translate to recording, and I think that's a huge mistake. I've never had an issue with an amp dialed in to sound good mic'd sounding bad in the room. But it's a lot more common to dial in an amp that sounds great in the room without any knowledge of what usually translates well to recording, and then getting sucky recorded tones.

But that's the thing. And I don't think it's necessarily bad, but many people are just not interested in mic'd tones. It's OK. Everyone dials in the tone to whatever makes them feel happy. But don't be shocked when a well-dialed in Peavey 6505 sounds better recorded than an expensive vintage boutique head that someone dialed in without caring how it would translate in a recording.

JMO.
 
Rex Rocker said:
Good mic placement is not THAT hard to get.

Don't get me wrong, great mic placement is.

But you can at least get very usable results in the tried and true spot everyone is using. If not usable, at least familiar enough to be able to compare to everything else that's being mic'd out there. If it's not working at least sounding usable, then the amp is being dialed in wrong. Plain and simple.

There are some exceptions. Like amps that don't get along with certain speakers. But 95% of the time, it works.
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Indeed. I know I’ll never gig again without having a square of tape on the cab so the soundguy knows to at least put the mic there and depending on which mic it is, I can angle it if need be. Getting it pointed at that square is the important part because if YOU know that’s sweet spot, you’re only relying on the soundguy to make subtle adjustments for the mix/room.

I’ve seen soundguys catch shit on forums for sticking a mic in a random spot. They surely know there’s a sweet spot, but finding it on that particular cab while they’re trying to get the whole band set up ain’t gonna happen. Help him help you.
 
RevDrucifer said:
Indeed. I know I’ll never gig again without having a square of tape on the cab so the soundguy knows to at least put the mic there and depending on which mic it is, I can angle it if need be. Getting it pointed at that square is the important part because if YOU know that’s sweet spot, you’re only relying on the soundguy to make subtle adjustments for the mix/room.

I’ve seen soundguys catch shit on forums for sticking a mic in a random spot. They surely know there’s a sweet spot, but finding it on that particular cab while they’re trying to get the whole band set up ain’t gonna happen. Help him help you.
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Yep!

For a live environment, the tape thing works.

Also, I thought about it, and my post only applies to the usual suspect 12" speakers with the small-ish dustcap and 1.75" voice coils. If you're using something odball like EV's, JBL's, Redbacks, Jensens, etc, the sweet spot surely shifts.
 
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I took a 57 diameter sized flashlight and circled the center of the speaker with a silver sharpie and now I mostly just go dead on, it usually always sounds good, is easy to replicate and i have a reference should I need to make adjustments
 
Another challenge I find is that I find most modern high-gain amps' sweet spots as far as volume goes where they record the best is slightly lower than band practice volumes. At least from the ones I've tried, and from the bands I've been in.

So that poses a challenge, for sure. But honestly, they're not THAT far off so that you need to completely rethink your settings. You might need some little tweaks here and there, but for the most part, I think they're not far off. After all, most modern high-gain amps' poweramps are designed to be loud and clean, for the most part.

But it's all relative. You might like more of a pushed poweramp sound than I do.

I'm just speaking from my experience of mic'ing high-gain amps for metal tones. I'd have no idea how to approach a cranked AC30, Bassman, or Plexi, TBH.
 
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With my Mesas I find they record best in the 100-105 dB range.
 
Yep… people that aren’t getting good tones out of stuff that sounds good in the room to them either need to rethink speaker choice, adjust mic placement, adjust settings on their amp, or adjust their mic pre to the correct level. Lots of variables, it takes time to get it right.
 
GJgo said:
I think you're over-simplifying a very complex discussion. I think that in terms of close mic recording, with the right speaker pairing and a lot of time on mic placement you can get almost any amp to record well. Problem is most guys don't want to commit to keeping a whole bunch of different cabs around.

For example- how many killer albums have a 2 channel Recto on them? I've had a hell of a time getting a good close mic recorded tone out of MULTIPLE 2 ch Recs (Fs and Gs). It's almost embarrassing. Does that mean they suck? Or in hindsight was it because I was using 2005 & newer V30 cabs that are hella fizzy compared to older ones? Example-

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I think you just needed to lower the presence or treble. I know recto's are notoriously hard to record with... you know, not many session players use them at all because of that. I've gotten great results out of a 2006 recto cab with a Mark IV, so I don't think it's the cab either, but I could be wrong?? maybe it's just a bad example of a V30?? Did you try any of the other speakers on the cab? or try moving the mic around the dust cap? cause it sounds different at different places around the edge of the dustcap.
 
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