What’s the probability that Van Halen 1 was this settup

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Amp_chaser

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Hi guys,

I know it’s digging into the rabbit hole again and again however I’ve listened many times to the records and I’m pretty sure I can hear 2 amps one very hot and articulated and one bassy and spongy which is very reactive to picking.

to back this idea apparently according to Young Guitar from Sep 1978 there were 2 Marshall amps on the records of Van Halen 1. Many suppose it was the wooden one however it could have been anything.

I’ve heard that Joe Bonamassa uses cabs with right and left inputs.

What if it is what Eddie used this with two different amps : The 68 and another one. Funny enough there is one amp that sounds as hot as the first record the 2203 can sound as hot as the vh1 record. There are pictures of eddy in the early days with a 2203 :

IMG_6870.jpeg


To support this idea the Mod V from Rockstah is one of the closest sounding amps to vh1 it is inspired by the 2203.

It could either be a 68 with a 2203 slave.

Or a Y split signal to a single cab modded with right and left input with both amps at the same decibels. The 2203 has the master volume and you could use the variac or perhaps the back (master volume) knob to attenuate the 68 plexi. Top left sm57 and bottom right sm57 then you just have to blend them together.

What’s your opinion about this ? Worth a try ?

This would dispel a lot of myths and would explain why no one was able to sound exactly like Van Halen 1 with a single amp.
 
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psychodave said:
In my experience the Rockstah mod 5 sounds almost nothing like VH. I owned a mod 5 done by Mark. The magic with Mark's mod, was Mark.
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It’s possible I never owned any of them. However the 2203 or the wooden plexis should be investigated. I believe that only 1 of the 2 wooden amps was serviced. So we don’t know if the second one has something special in it. There is a club days picture where you can see a wooden plexi with 2 knobs in the place of the bright inputs.
 
psychodave said:
In my experience the Rockstah mod 5 sounds almost nothing like VH. I owned a mod 5 done by Mark. The magic with Mark's mod, was Mark.
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The Mod 5 was a PPIMV with a few tone tweaks.. sounded nothing like EVH.

Mark had a knack for recording his rig with GarageBand DAW.

:cool:
 
harddriver said:
So Ed dragged all those plexi's and superleads around from 1978-1986 because he used Marshall 2203's and or they were all Jose modded.

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Id’say it’s one of the most accurate but it still lacks that huge bass when he picks. If this guitar magazine says the record was 2 amps it was probably it. Perhaps his fender bandmaster. In one of the most accurate post that was made on metro forums there were slaved amps with the bass only on and the rest except volumes were off.
 
psychodave said:
In my experience the Rockstah mod 5 sounds almost nothing like VH. I owned a mod 5 done by Mark. The magic with Mark's mod, was Mark.
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My exact experience with the Mod 5 as well, it gives you gain but it does not play of feel like a variaced plexi with the correct effects signal path.
 
Amp_chaser said:
Id’say it’s one of the most accurate but it still lacks that huge bass when he picks. If this guitar magazine says the record was 2 amps it was probably it. Perhaps his fender bandmaster. In one of the most accurate post that was made on metro forums there were slaved amps with the bass only on and the rest except volumes were off.
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Have you ever played a true 68 plexi or 69-72 Superlead or a kit plexi 100 watter with all NOS parts, Sylvania 6ca7's and Sylvania 12ax7A's with the exact setup that Eddie publicly used?

If you had you probably wouldn't be making the argument put forth as gospel. I accept that a good 2203 sounds great, I own a 79 2203 when it was 100% bone stock and it was a killer amp..... but it lacks everything my 68 plexi has with the exact same signal chain when it comes to accurate Ed tones IMHO.

Variac, EP3 echoplex, MXR flanger, MXR phaser, greenbacks of you choice. Not to mention the possible use of 55HZ and 75HZ M or H30 Celestions.

If you ever dig through the old Metro amp EVH forums you will find I have played every setup that was ever speculated and the heavily variaced 68 plexi with the exact ED signal chain that is known from public pictutures is the clear winner for my ears. So far nothing out there on YT of a Jose or modded 2203 nails everything quite like Jim Gaustads and other videos like that Suhr SL68 video into the OXBOX. Al Estrada Slaves his SUhr SL68's into Matrix power amps and he has killer VH1 tones and then some.


This argument you continue to put forth was settled with Jim Gaustad's famous Brown Sound video, period end of story, if someone cannot acknowledge how good that sounds then they are being intellectually dishonest. It just has ust about everything VH1 was famous for and he did it with a stock 68 Metro kit plex with a variac and Ed's known signal chain,( minus the MXR 6 band EQ) on video for the world to see.

Don't get me wrong I love Jose modded amps, I have modded quite a few myself and they all sounded killer for people who didn't want to mess with the real entire SETUP. I have a 5 watt EL34 1x12 combo 2203 Marshall that I Jose Modded with a Jose Master and a Sat switch that emulates variacing and it sounds really killer for the times I want some Ed tones that are close enough without firing up the 68 plexi with all the variac bullshit and the entire setup but it does not hold a candle to my entire Ed rig setup with my 68 Metro NOS plexi. I'm not trying to be snarky or all knowing, I just have been down the road and am pointing out what works for me and many others looking for Ed tones. If all those videos don't confirm to your ears a good Ed tone then I cannot point you in any other direction.

My advice to you is to buy a Suhr SL68/SL67 MKII or Friedman Plex, or build a plexi 100 watter get Ed's exact signal chain, EP echoplex(clinch ep-pre's work nicely), MXR phase 90, MXR flanger(old if you can find one), MXR 6 Band(old blue one), PAF of your choice or hotter, a Variac and either a Fryette PS2 o PS100 or a UA Ox box for recording and I bet you won't be able to stop grinning with all your Ed tones.
 
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Amp_chaser said:
Id’say it’s one of the most accurate but it still lacks that huge bass when he picks. If this guitar magazine says the record was 2 amps it was probably it. Perhaps his fender bandmaster. In one of the most accurate post that was made on metro forums there were slaved amps with the bass only on and the rest except volumes were off.
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You obviously have not listened intently to the actual ISOLATION clips. There really isn't all this GAIN you are making it out to be, this isn't Jose levels of gain even. In the mix the guitar sounds way more distorted and gainer but it's not tons of gain.



 
harddriver said:
Have you ever played a true 68 plexi or 69-72 Superlead or a kit plexi 100 watter with all NOS parts, Sylvania 6ca7's and Sylvania 12ax7A's with the exact setup that Eddie publicly used?

If you had you probably wouldn't be making the argument put forth as gospel. I accept that a good 2203 sounds great, I own a 79 2203 when it was 100% bone stock and it was a killer amp..... but it lacks everything my 68 plexi has with the exact same signal chain when it comes to accurate Ed tones IMHO.

Variac, EP3 echoplex, MXR flanger, MXR phaser, greenbacks of you choice. Not to mention the possible use of 55HZ and 75HZ M or H30 Celestions.

If you ever dig through the old Metro amp EVH forums you will find I have played every setup that was ever speculated and the heavily variaced 68 plexi with the exact ED signal chain that is known from public pictutures is the clear winner for my ears. So far nothing out there on YT of a Jose or modded 2203 nails everything quite like Jim Gaustads and other videos like that Suhr SL68 video into the OXBOX. Al Estrada Slaves his SUhr SL68's into Matrix power amps and he has killer VH1 tones and then some.


This argument you continue to put forth was settled with Jim Gaustad's famous Brown Sound video, period end of story, if someone cannot acknowledge how good that sounds then they are being intellectually dishonest. It just has ust about everything VH1 was famous for and he did it with a stock 68 Metro kit plex with a variac and Ed's known signal chain,( minus the MXR 6 band EQ) on video for the world to see.

My advice to you is to buy a Suhr SL68/SL67 or Friedman Plex, get Ed's exact signal chain, EP echoplex(clinch ep-pre's work nicely), MXR phase 90, MXR flanger(old if you can find one), MXR 6 Band(old blue one), PAF of your choice, a Variac and either a Fryette PS2 o PS100 or a UA Ox box for recording and I bet you won't be able to stop grinning with all your Ed tone.
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1. Where do I say that the Settups I suggest are gospel ?

2. Eddie didn’t use any sylvania tubes until vh2. It was erie tubes and Mullard for the preamp. We got even picture confirmation from the 1978 Japanese tour and from Dave Friedman who says eddies favorite tubes were telefunken.

3. For the argument I’ve heard the suhr sl68 and sl67 and It lacks something for vh1 the pick response isn’t as bassy as the original records. If it’s hot it’s not bassy. I offer you to prove yourself with some records of your sl68 with feel your love tonight and let’s compare it to this :



Each time eddie picks you can hear a bassy sound pound on your face or chest. At the same time you have a very hot and articulated sound. I doubt any stock single Marshall can do to the two at the same time. Perhaps 2 Marshall amps yes but not 1.

4. Gaustaad got very close but he still lacks some tonalities. There is a reason why Dave Friedman said in his recent tone talk with Ossie Ahsen that he doesn’t know what’s going on during the first record. Both of them agree on or the Marshall wasn’t stock or there was something special made to the way it was recorded. They also suggest it could have been the work of the studio.

Now you and I aren’t the creator of the universe there are no way to say you are correct or either I am. One thing is for sure there we can’t go back in time and there are tons of nda concerning Eddie which speaks a lot for itself.

5. David Lee Roth said many times to many people that Eddie used hot rod Marshall’s live. was it during the records too ? I don’t know. He said it to Steve Vai and to a lot of other artists. He even said it to a Guy whose father renovated his house. He gave him a plexi modded by Jose as a supplement as a payment. That’s the guts of the plexi I posted recently.
IMG_5887.png

The Steve vai dlr era Jose that Friedman serviced sounds very close to what the early vh sound. In fact Pete Thorn never sounded as close as having the early sound than when he played vai’s Jose. Just listen to it around min 27 :





6. There are many testimonies and guitar magazines that said that there were 2 amps used on the record if vh1. Some people even said that what they’ve done is something ridiculous. So there might have been something unusual done this day.

7. Finally Jose told us that he modded eddies plexi amp in the book made by journalist photograph Neil zlozlower. If you didn’t know Neil followed Eddie a lot of years he is the one who took most of the picture we got today like the one of the vh2 studio record. He interviewed Jose and that’s what Jose said some time before dying :

IMG_6873.jpeg

The guy was at the end of his life he even stopped modding amps. Why would he lie at the end of his life ?

When the book was published Eddie was alive and he never asked for this claim to be removed. Why ? Yeah perhaps that’s the whole truth.

But the truth for all of us is that we will probably never know.

The vh1 could have been a stock 68 with a modded Jose amp. Or even neither of those. We will never know until Ted templeman, Don landee or Alex or Michael Anthony decide to open their mouths. But they will probably never do it. They promised Zappa to give him answers he tried to interview them about the first album after eddies death and they didn’t came to answer him. Isn’t this weird ?

I mean yes it’s possible there was a stock 68 in the lot but I and many believe it wasn’t enough. It could have been the studio but was it really only the mixing ? Are we right ? No, no one can know until those above open up and that’s the issue. Because of that open speculation is permitted.

But my bet is : If they don’t come to speak it’s that they don’t want to speak if they don’t want to speak it’s probable that there are some things that someone told them to keep as a secret… and they probably still respect him. If they had nothing to hide they would come to zappa’s interview.
 
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You can speculate until the cows come home....until you have the actual equipment in front of you and play if for yourself almost every setup will always remain to be conjecture and speculation. If ya can't get the core tone with a good 68 or a good superlead with the exact signal chain then a Jose mod ain't gonna help. I would say the Occam's razor explanation of Ed setup by Robin L will get anyone 95-98% of the way, the rest is up to your playing prowess.

I don't care what Ted Templeman Don Landee did or NDA this or NDA that..... ED got the TONE LIVE on the entire fooking 78 tour with plexi's and superleads.....JEEESH.....There IS NOT a single studio effects being used live in front of those amps, it's Ed's amps and signal chain naked for all to see. If you need UBER gain get a Friedman BE100, they also have tons of bass response you might like.

I have backed all my statements up with actual real life videos and am confident in my assessments.

When you post a live Jose or modded 2203 that sounds every bit as good as Jim Gaustads plexi videos or that Suhr SL68 video into the OX box that has all the nuances a plexi has then I will concede the point, but I'm still waiting.
Do these live videos sound like the Album or Not? I think they sound better actually.

Slaving to Musicman HD130's and HD65's right in front of your face!


You never answered my question......but you speak in certain terms that the amp had to uber modded by Jose when Jose probably showed him how to run into a load and the slave setup according to alot of early accounts and Robin L and Mark Cameron. That doesn't mean the plexi don't get the tone by itself LIVE.

Have you ever played a true 68 plexi or 69-72 Superlead or a kit plexi 100 watter with all NOS parts, Sylvania 6ca7's and Sylvania 12ax7A's with the exact setup that Eddie publicly used?
 
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