Trump/Vance just put Zelinskyy in his place

[jdel77]

How much money and weapons has Australia sent Ukraine? Any troops on the ground?

If you feel so strongly you should go over and be the tip of the spear on the front lines yourself. Take your husband with you.

The US is not going to send troops to fight this war. Period.

I’ve already dealt with you in other threads mate, and the forum knows you struggle to understand the bigger picture across a range of geo-political issues.
You’re ignorant of what happens when Putin annexes Ukraine. Try to think 3 or 4 steps ahead. It’s not about immediate frontlines.

 

[jdel77]

It's amazing, how entitled the effeminate bitches in other countries are to send US money and troops simply to virtue signal that they support their neoliberal war-mongers.

Christ who made you a Rig-Talk moderator

You gonna have a personal crack at me then I’ll return serve, you fucking wanker.
If you can’t see that Trump and his little mutt Vance are essentially inviting Putin to reform the Eastern Bloc MKII then you’re a stupid fool.
If you’ve got family who served in WWII or any Cold War conflict then you should be aware of what that means.

 

[Floyd Eye]

I’ve already dealt with you in other threads mate, and the forum knows you struggle to understand the bigger picture across a range of geo-political issues.
You’re ignorant of what happens when Putin annexes Ukraine. Try to think 3 or 4 steps ahead. It’s not about immediate frontlines.

Dude, until the US started meddling in The Ukraine it WAS Russia. As it has been for nearly the entirety of it's existence. The fucking sky doesn't fall just because Ukraine becomes Russia again. You act like it was some kind of democracy over there or that anything the US or the west did to foment this war was done in the name of democracy and that's simply bullshit. I thought you guys were all against nation building and forcible democracy spreading after the 2003 Iraq shit show ?

 

[jdel77]

Actually Brother J, IMHO at least, it looked like Trump wasn't happy about Z's comment that Putin couldn't be trusted that triggered the whole thing.

Bro, Putin can’t be trusted. He’s broken 25 ceasefire agreements since the Crimean Annexe in 2014.

Zelensky simply asked why he should trust America to ensure Putin doesn’t keep breaking peace accords. That’s a totally legitimate question.

Then the whole thing went to shit once Vance got his nose out of joint. Trump realised his mutt was barking for him and immediately it was about him looking stupid, so he went down a catalogue of irrelevant events blaming everyone else in US politics. Immediately made it about himself, as the narcissist he is.

No one answered Zelenskyy’s question regarding Putin adhering to ceasefires.

The rest of the world is laughing at Trump’s shallowness and thin skin.

When you're one of the two parties being mediated, saying that the other one cannot be trusted is an epic fail, an absolute no-no, let alone to do it for the world to see.

That's all I've got. Not gonna debate this with anyone.

That was more directed at Russia mate. Zelenskyy was essentially asking how would things change for this conflict under Trump.

EDIT
Oh and I forgot:
Apparently he's been late for important meetings due to "oversleeping".

Then there's his refusal to wear a suit for these important occasions and negotiations. It's like rolling up to Wimbledon and ignoring the all-white dress code.

So yeah, that fast-and-loose comment I mentioned might just have been the last straw in a saga of perceived disrespect, plus of course it won't help negotiations with Russia any.

Fair call there mate. But there’s a history of world leaders wearing tactical gear to war meetings isn’t there?

 

[VonBonfire]

Trump is literally handing the keys to the door of Europe which is Ukraine, to Putin. I hope that makes sense.

Detail to me why the defense of Europe should be shouldered by Americans....again.

 

[jdel77]

Wait…
Are we talking about Jdell?

Of course he is. He just hasn’t got the balls toto say it straight out, cos he knows fuck all about me

 

[jdel77]

Read that article I posted brother. I would like to know what you think about it.

I’ll try to find the link mate. I’m not here that much these days.

 

[Floyd Eye]

I’ll try to find the link mate. I’m not here that much these days.

https://www.aaronmate.net/p/how-10-years-of-us-meddling-in-ukraine

 

[jdel77]

Dude, until the US started meddling in The Ukraine it WAS Russia. As it has been for nearly the entirety of it's existence. The fucking sky doesn't fall just because Ukraine becomes Russia again.

It’s pretty much been tennis-balled back and forth between Polish and Russian ownership for 500 years.

You act like it was some kind of democracy over there or that anything the US or the west did to foment this war was done in the name of democracy and that's simply bullshit. I thought you guys were all against nation building and forcible democracy spreading after the 2003 Iraq shit show ?

All I’ll say man is that once Putin takes all of Ukraine, and not just the initial Donbas and Odessa, then he’ll go West till he runs out of land.
It’ll be Poland, then Germany, then Belgium etc… etc… until the Eastern Bloc is re-established.
You really want your tax dollars going towards a second Cold War?
Ukraine’s establishment as an independent state = Putin has his leash shortened.
Trust me, that lunatic operating on a short leash is in everyone’s interests.

 

[Floyd Eye]

It’s pretty much been tennis-balled back and forth between Polish and Russian ownership for 500 years.



All I’ll say man is that once Putin takes all of Ukraine, and not just the initial Donbas and Odessa, then he’ll go West till he runs out of land.
It’ll be Poland, then Germany, then Belgium etc… etc… until the Eastern Bloc is re-established.
You really want your tax dollars going towards a second Cold War?
Ukraine’s establishment as an independent state = Putin has his leash shortened.
Trust me, that lunatic operating on a short leash is in everyone’s interests.

Dude, Putin would never go after a NATO country. Ukraine is Russia. It has been for a lot longer than 500 years. And most of it's people identified as Russian before Obama started fucking around over there, planting dreams of NATO into heir heads so we cold use it to launder money.

The days of the US funding this charade are over. Europe should get used to it. If they want to fight with Russia let them.

 

[jdel77]

Detail to me why the defense of Europe should be shouldered by Americans....again.

It shouldn’t.
But America has a responsibility to keep Putin’s advance limited to the Donbas/Odessa and Crimean boundaries.
Unless of course, you’re happy to go back into a Second Cold War and deal with the next Stalin, Krushchev, Brezhnev etc… etc…

You strike me as a guy who was alive during that time period, so I’ll ask you what global benefits there were for the USA from 1950 to 1991.

 

[Floyd Eye]

The US would never tolerate Russia military alliance with Mexico.

 

[Floyd Eye]

It shouldn’t.
But America has a responsibility to keep Putin’s advance limited to the Donbas/Odessa and Crimean boundaries.
Unless of course, you’re happy to go back into a Second Cold War and deal with the next Stalin, Krushchev, Brezhnev etc… etc…

You strike me as a guy who was alive during that time period, so I’ll ask you what global benefits there were for the USA from 1950 to 1991.

The cold war made a hell of a lot of money for politicians and contractors in the US and Russia.

Tell me what liabilities Russia presented the US from 1950-1991 ? You don't think we were over there because the US itself was threatened by Russia do you ?

 

[jdel77]

Dude, Putin would never go after a NATO country. Ukraine is Russia. It has been for a lot longer than 500 years. And most of it's people identified as Russian before Obama started fucking around over there, planting dreams of NATO into heir heads so we cold use it to launder money.

Course he would.
Trump’s made it clear his hatred of the UN and in Jan 2024 said he’s withholding funds for NATO.
He’s happy for Putin to fuck Europe as long as USA’s financial trade interests are secure.

The days of the US funding this charade are over. Europe should get used to it. If they want to fight with Russia let them.

Welp then America’s going to find itself shut out of a succession of international agreements and politically isolated.
Trump didn’t even know what AUKUS was so maybe that’s for the best.
Probably why he’s so busy securing financial interests from that fuck Netanyahu for natural gas and oil in the Middle East and minerals from Russia in Ukraine.

He’ll just have to explain to his Slovenian wife that he’s ok with Putin owning her country when the time comes.

 

[VonBonfire]

But America has a responsibility to keep Putin’s advance limited to the Donbas/Odessa and Crimean boundaries.
Unless of course, you’re happy to go back into a Second Cold War and deal with the next Stalin, Krushchev, Brezhnev etc… etc…

I grew up during the cold war era. It's over. He's not Stalin, so you are making false equivalencies that are bordering on hyperbole IMO. As you said, we shouldn't have to shoulder the security of europe. We've done it twice and ever since. Our founders warned us of european entanglements. Can't imagine why. The general attitude here in the US is we've done enough, time to help Americans. Let Europe deal with it's problems.

 

[jdel77]

The US would never tolerate Russia military alliance with Mexico.

Excellent analogy.
Ukraine is to Europe as Mexico is to USA.

 

[jdel77]

I grew up during the cold war era. It's over. He's not Stalin, so you are making false equivalencies that are bordering on hyperbole IMO. As you said, we shouldn't have to shoulder the security of europe. We've done it twice and ever since. Our founders warned us of european entanglements. Can't imagine why. The general attitude here in the US is we've done enough, time to help Americans. Let Europe deal with it's problems.

We’ll that worked out great in late 1941 and early 1942 didn’t it?
Do not underestimate Putin.
His heroes are Lenin and Stalin, and even though he’s not operating through Bolshevism/Communism his oligarchic platform creates the same results.
Unless you want your country to be forced to come in and mop up another mess then if I were you I’d be looking for a President who actually has the broader intelligence to see where this is going to go 10, 20, 30 years down the track.

 

[jdel77]

I grew up during the cold war era. It's over. He's not Stalin, so you are making false equivalencies that are bordering on hyperbole IMO. As you said, we shouldn't have to shoulder the security of europe. We've done it twice and ever since. Our founders warned us of european entanglements. Can't imagine why. The general attitude here in the US is we've done enough, time to help Americans. Let Europe deal with it's problems.

And I agree with Trump securing infrastructure and services for America and American citizens.
But a good President should be able to build up their country internally without reducing it to an international laughing stock.

 

[VonBonfire]

Unless you want your country to be forced to come in and mop up another mess

This is my beef with the foreign mindset, no offense. "unless you want to be forced". Like Zelensky, you just presume we'll just do it for you Like a lazy farm hand, someone else will pick up the slack. It's come to an end and it's abrupt. Europe is creating europe's mess which we won't have the money or national will to clean up again.

 

[jdel77]

The cold war made a hell of a lot of money for politicians and contractors in the US and Russia.

Tell me what liabilities Russia presented the US from 1950-1991 ? You don't think we were over there because the US itself was threatened by Russia do you ?

Once the inevitable proxy wars develop then the problem presents itself.
Tell me how Korea and Vietnam was a good thing for you guys.
How about Cuba?
How about the constant fear of Communism or other non-capitalist ideologies?
Splinter states across Afghanistan, The Middle East etc…

You honestly can’t see how putting Putin in a box has so many benefits moving forward?