I don't understand the high end Pickup Market

[thegame]

Exactly my point. How many different ways can you wrap wire around a magnet? The difference is the marketing.

Evidently, there are an almost infinite number of different ways to do so since so many pickups use the same basic materials yet are voiced so differently even from the same manufacturer. Winding a pickup is an artform. Two cooks can use the same ingredients and one may taste good while the other could taste like shit

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

I like pickups.
They're like cute little metal harp microphones.

 

[Geo]

Whatever Tom Holmes does is worth every penny. I bought one from him 15 years ago for about $250. I wish I had bought 10 of them.

That being said, if you are just going to heap mass distortion on your sound, the pickup really doesn't matter that much.

 

[Erock]

definitely agree there is a feel and sound to the different brands and models. I'm not sure how people can play them, high gain or not, and not feel/hear the differences. I unfortunately like a bunch of high end pups that people hyped. Basically an addict to BK pups, which people seem to have a pretty "tepid" opinion of these days. I will spend the loot though, because I know what I'm getting after using so many.

 

[Meanjoegreene]

Weren’t the first PAFs super bright as to compete with the telecaster ?

 

[Killcrop]

No, the difference is the 1000s of hours in R&D people spend perfecting their version of the pickup.

Guitars are literally just 20$ in wood with a couple pounds 3$ of pot metal. There's no reason guitars should cost more than 50$.

See how stupid that sounds?

Not the same thing. There is a lot of labor in building a guitar. The exact amount of labor goes into a Dimarzio as a Ron Ellis. The rest is in your head.

 

[vultures]

definitely agree there is a feel and sound to the different brands and models. I'm not sure how people can play them, high gain or not, and not feel/hear the differences. I unfortunately like a bunch of high end pups that people hyped. Basically an addict to BK pups, which people seem to have a pretty "tepid" opinion of these days. I will spend the loot though, because I know what I'm getting after using so many.

I am a Bare Knuckle fanatic. I've been through tons of Seymour Duncans, Dimarzios and other random pickups. Bare Knuckle always knocks it out of the park and you get exactly what they describe. Although, I use the Ragnarok in everything now and it's really hard to justify $225/pickup or $434/set..

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

Okay, enough joking this is my opinion and I may probably be the only one here who's deaf without help from augmentation. I can absolutely tell the difference in pickups. 9/10 imports sound weak, dull, flat, screechy, muddy or just uninspiring garbage altogether. For me personally where I find the most impact is in feel/response/clarity/definition/output and how all of those work together. I cannot really comment on tone for the most part as any of y'all would probably agree if you've listened to my clips.

My on average favs are a handful of modern Seymour Duncans. I'm not a personal fan of most bare knuckles that I've tried, but others are and that's okay. They sound good in their hands/rigs, just not mine. I have nothing against Dimarzios and probably won't change them out in a guitar if it came that way, but also probably won't buy them specifically. Would never recommend $1k set of pickups as it's mostly impractical, my first hand experience is very little, but I would never tell someone not to spend their money however they want. If it makes them happy than so be it. But import pickups are usually garbage and even some well known stuff, imo. You aren't getting the same experience from a set of $50 pickups as you are from a $200+ set 99% of the time.

 

[Erock]

Okay, enough joking this is my opinion and I may probably be the only one here who's deaf without help from augmentation. I can absolutely tell the difference in pickups. 9/10 imports sound weak, dull, flat, screechy, muddy or just uninspiring garbage altogether. For me personally where I find the most impact is in feel/response/clarity/definition/output and how all of those work together. I cannot really comment on tone for the most part as any of y'all would probably agree if you've listened to my clips.

My on average favs are a handful of modern Seymour Duncans. I'm not a personal fan of most bare knuckles that I've tried, but others are and that's okay. They sound good in their hands/rigs, just not mine. I have nothing against Dimarzios and probably won't change them out in a guitar if it came that way, but also probably won't buy them specifically. Would never recommend $1k set of pickups as it's mostly impractical, my first hand experience is very little, but I would never tell someone not to spend their money however they want. If it makes them happy than so be it. But import pickups are usually garbage and even some well known stuff, imo. You aren't getting the same experience from a set of $50 pickups as you are from a $200+ set 99% of the time.

ya know, I think it's a balance and crapshoot at this point. I have had pups that I had no intention of keeping in certain guitars, that ended up sounding fantastic. ie. Miracle Man in a basswood body?!? In contrast I've had pups that sounded like ass in guitars everyone uses them in with no issues. I've come to the opinion, that you have to match the pickups to the characteristics of the chunk of wood you have. AFTER hearing it in person. I've ordered stuff based on "expert" writings on characteristics, but they are using a baseline I didn't have.

 

[valve]

this should be common knowledge by now, but if you use a too long or shitty cable with a high capacity, the benefits from scatter winding will probably lost.

i like @thegame 's cookin' analogy!

that clear and no mud attack is kind of addictive and you can't go back. And yes, feel is also a huge part.
But to fit the PU with the right EQ to the EQ of your guitar is still kind of a crap shoot. then there is also stiff vs soft, for guitar and PUs...
so knowing the duncan range pretty well, i have a better chance to find a good match, than with most other brands.
but than if you have enough guitars, you can turn it around and find the best guitar for a specific PU. Yes, this got toally out of hand

There is an upcharge once you established your name though. If their business is established, they actually should be able to produce it for a lower price, but you always see the prices going up!
on the other hand, why wouldn't they? simple supply and demand.

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

ya know, I think it's a balance and crapshoot at this point. I have had pups that I had no intention of keeping in certain guitars, that ended up sounding fantastic. ie. Miracle Man in a basswood body?!? In contrast I've had pups that sounded like ass in guitars everyone uses them in with no issues. I've come to the opinion, that you have to match the pickups to the characteristics of the chunk of wood you have. AFTER hearing it in person. I've ordered stuff based on "expert" writings on characteristics, but they are using a baseline I didn't have.

I def feel like the wood is a thing. Because I literally feel it and it changes how I play if not the tone itself. Species also being a baseline, where the specific density of the piece(s) wood is ultimately the most impactful on that front, imo like you're seemingly saying. I try to keep that baseline approach when recommending pickups, if I do at all. I feel like other factors such as the tuning, scale length, distance to bridge, string gauge are also important factors to keep in mind. It's hard to say okay well you have an ebony fingerboard on a maple neck and an alder body, so this is going to work for you. Sometimes a height or pole adjustment are the only thing needed. Another thing to consider are the pots/caps/wiring that may be enough to make that change work. I've done pot swaps that changed the guitar to being flat and muddy from previously dynamic and vice versa. Action, pick, and player themself are just as important for dynamics, attack, sustain. So, it's ultimately all relative.

 

[Erock]

I def feel like the wood is a thing. Because I literally feel it and it changes how I play if not the tone itself. Species also being a baseline, where the specific density of the piece(s) wood is ultimately the most impactful on that front, imo like you're seemingly saying. I try to keep that baseline approach when recommending pickups, if I do at all. I feel like other factors such as the scale length, distance to bridge, string gauge are also important factors to keep in mind. It's hard to say okay well you a ebony fingerboard on a maple neck and an alder body, so this is going to work for you. Sometimes a height or pole adjustment are the only thing needed. Another thing to consider are the pots/caps/wiring that may be enough to make that change work. I've done pot swaps that changed the guitar to being flat and muddy from previously dynamic and vice versa. Action, pick, and player themself are just as important for dynamics, attack, sustain. So, it's ultimately all relative.

 

[valve]

We’re all still talking about wire and little bar magnets and plastic bobbins right?
< $8 in materials…

Hell, we even have people chasing down old duncans because they sound different than current production ones

 

[valve]

I def feel like the wood is a thing. Because I literally feel it and it changes how I play if not the tone itself. Species also being a baseline, where the specific density of the piece(s) wood is ultimately the most impactful on that front, imo like you're seemingly saying. I try to keep that baseline approach when recommending pickups, if I do at all. I feel like other factors such as the tuning, scale length, distance to bridge, string gauge are also important factors to keep in mind. It's hard to say okay well you have an ebony fingerboard on a maple neck and an alder body, so this is going to work for you. Sometimes a height or pole adjustment are the only thing needed. Another thing to consider are the pots/caps/wiring that may be enough to make that change work. I've done pot swaps that changed the guitar to being flat and muddy from previously dynamic and vice versa. Action, pick, and player themself are just as important for dynamics, attack, sustain. So, it's ultimately all relative.

this!
yes, the wood matters!
i have swapped enough pickups between my guitars. the accoustic quality of the guitar is transfered throug the amp. always!
Even a simple neck swap on a fender style guitar is noticable (same tuners, same fret location).
how much you hear of it in the end, depends on your setup.
with enough gain and under a mic, i don't think i will pass a blind test though.

 

[TheBiggestJerk]

this!
yes, the wood matters!
i have swapped enough pickups between my guitars. the accoustic quality of the guitar is transfered throug the amp. always!
Even a simple neck swap on a fender style guitar is noticable (same tuners, same fret location).
how much you hear of it in the end, depends on your setup.
with enough gain and under a mic, i don't think i will pass a blind test though.

How does wood transcend to an electrical signal?

 

[valve]

How does wood transcend to an electrical signal?

Well each piece of wood (depending on all factors like dimensions, density, humidity, ... ) will resonate at a varying degree at certain frequencies, other freqs will be (to a varying degree) be absorbed/damped. as a result, string vibrations will be damped or highlighted at certain frequencies which makes for the instruments specific overtones, which then get picked up by your :drumroll: pickup.
Then, some woods will be softer, so they have more give, so the neck will flex more on the attack...

You can mount your hardware on any piece of material with the same dimensions as your current wooden guitar and it will sound different! why shouldn't it make a difference between different pieces of wood???

 

[DanTravis62]

Not the same thing. There is a lot of labor in building a guitar. The exact amount of labor goes into a Dimarzio as a Ron Ellis. The rest is in your head.

Do you actually know how much time and effort goes into building pickups, or are you just assuming because you actually DONT know?

 

[JerEvil]

Sterile, brittle, and bright is how I would describe the 59/09 in general, so I can imagine the fixed bridge makes it moreso.

I'm going to double down on the Custom 5/Jazz combo recommendation, especially if you want to make it more smooth, balanced and midrange focused. The higher gain ceramic options will get to the same destination, but it's going to be a much spikier midrange.

Edit by custom 5 I mean the SH-14 - not the SH-5 custom. I'm talking about the Custom 5 alnico

I just ordered a JB/Jazz combo for my S2 Mcarty single cut. I don’t hate the 58/15 set but they are a little bright overall.

 

[DanTravis62]

I just ordered a JB/Jazz combo for my S2 Mcarty single cut. I don’t hate the 58/15 set but they are a little bright overall.

The jb/Jazz combo is a classic for a reason. I'm just not a fan of the pokiness of the mids of the jb, but I understand people that do

 

[TheBiggestJerk]

Well each piece of wood (depending on all factors like dimensions, density, humidity, ... ) will resonate at a varying degree at certain frequencies, other freqs will be (to a varying degree) be absorbed/damped. as a result, string vibrations will be damped or highlighted at certain frequencies which makes for the instruments specific overtones, which then get picked up by your :drumroll: pickup.
Then, some woods will be softer, so they have more give, so the neck will flex more on the attack...

You can mount your hardware on any piece of material with the same dimensions as your current wooden guitar and it will sound different! why shouldn't it make a difference between different pieces of wood???

Got any science or math to back that up? Gonna need to see some receipt's for that explanation!