Amp clean channel + distortion pedals vs. multiple different amps

[Kraku]

Do you occasionally/often use distortion pedal + clean channel in the amp, without adding any extra distortion from the amp itself? If you do, what pedals do you use for that and what type of music do you play/write?

I'm asking because I'm wondering how well one might be able to replace the idea of having multiple amps with having an amp with a clean channel + X amount of distortion pedals.

 

[alund]

If gigging, best is to find a versatile amp that does all 3 tones (EVH Stealth). But if you are set in a studio and nothing moves then get the best of a clean,—>> high gain amps with some sort of head/speaker changer. Like: JC120—>larry or hellrazor,

Having said that I do occasionally use a clean SLO100 with boost, eq pedals at varying stages of angry

 

[Kraku]

Didn't answer my question. I'd like to know what distortion pedals you usually use in such scenario and what type of music do you play/write while doing so. This way I know what type of combinations might work for what type of music.

About my own context: I am not gigging. I'm only writing music in my tiny home studio.

 

[DanTravis62]

Didn't answer my question. I'd like to know what distortion pedals you usually use in such scenario and what type of music do you play/write while doing so. This way I know what type of combinations might work for what type of music.

About my own context: I am not gigging. I'm only writing music in my tiny home studio.

If you aren't gigging, there's almost no reason to do this then, unless you very specifically want to play stoner doom or something that requires fuzz pedals.

The best solution, if you absolutely HAVE to run a clean amp, would be to use a Synergy or Rack pre into the fx loop

But clean tones are so easy to get, and gain tones so difficult, that unless you're gigging it's just like why?

 

[Kraku]

If you aren't gigging, there's almost no reason to do this then, unless you very specifically want to play stoner doom or something that requires fuzz pedals.

The best solution, if you absolutely HAVE to run a clean amp, would be to use a Synergy or Rack pre into the fx loop

But clean tones are so easy to get, and gain tones so difficult, that unless you're gigging it's just like why?

I don't fit the typical musician type, which writes only one type of music. I write everything from classical music, to rock, to industrial, to techno and dance floor stuff. Hence I usually find myself looking for everything from 60s surf guitars, to Rammstein type of guitar tones, to industrial, to 70s prog rock, etc. Whatever my inspiration requires.

 

[BlueParfait]

When I was gigging, I found that a moderately distorted amp worked the best for me.

If I wanted more gain, I boost the front end with an OD or a boost, or both

If I wanted it clean, I just roll down the volume knob, and the "clean" sound I got from that generally sat in a mix much better than an actual clean tone.

 

[DanTravis62]

I don't fit the typical musician type, which writes only one type of music. I write everything from classical music, to rock, to industrial, to techno and dance floor stuff. Hence I usually find myself looking for everything from 60s surf guitars, to Rammstein type of guitar tones, to industrial, to 70s prog rock, etc. Whatever my inspiration requires.

You don't need pedals then, per se, you need a nice modeler

Perhaps a pedal form factor one like the hx stomp or quad cortex? You are going to be severely disappointed if you try to get all of those tones with pedals into a clean amp, ESPECIALLY for recording

I would pare it down to your favorite clean amp and favorite high gainer if you must, but you are forever going to be disappointed with your gain tones if you try to go this route

And you're just going to end up wasting a shitload of money and buying more amps anyways in the end

 

[Kraku]

You don't need pedals then, per se, you need a nice modeler

Perhaps a pedal form factor one like the hx stomp or quad cortex? You are going to be severely disappointed if you try to get all of those tones with pedals into a clean amp, ESPECIALLY for recording

I would pare it down to your favorite clean amp and favorite high gainer if you must, but you are forever going to be disappointed with your gain tones if you try to go this route

And you're just going to end up wasting a shitload of money and buying more amps anyways in the end

OK, sounds like you might be correct.

I'm trying to stay away from digital modelers and profilers, and stick to actual analog gear. I try to keep my guitar distortion tones in the analogue realm, just for the fun of it. So maybe I'll do some research and choose a few good sounding amps, some with clean tones and some really high gain, and then see what I'm still missing.

 

[Omnipotent1]

If you want easy just get a modeler. If you want to get really nerdy… Run a hybrid system… Personally I’ve found regular clean channels on high gain amps don’t do the trick. However I can vouch for the Bogner Barcelona & that’s what I run my modelers/profilers into with their cab sims turned off. Use the modelers as your distortion pedal & try to get a “class A” dedicated clean amp (which is meant to be used as a pedal platform) for best results..Barcelona is great if you can find one, Two Rock traditional if you have F-you money. lol

 

[alund]

Didn't answer my question. I'd like to know what distortion pedals you usually use in such scenario and what type of music do you play/write while doing so. This way I know what type of combinations might work for what type of music.

About my own context: I am not gigging. I'm only writing music in my tiny home studio.

I can tell you I have a bunch of different pedals but you have to know they act different with each amp and guitar that I play.
Boss SD1, boss EQ, griff’s 808, wampler tumnus, Mxr eq, staxx dumbler. I really like eq’s when the amp does what I want for a bit of shaping. I might use my tumnus or my Griffin to boost a clean tone to edge of break up. But a great amp is where the tone lives especially when you have time to dial things in. That’s the answer I have for your question.
Having said that, you need a modeler. Axe Fx III or the like. It really can do everything you need.

 

[glpg80]

If I wanted it clean, I just roll down the volume knob, and the "clean" sound I got from that generally sat in a mix much better than an actual clean tone.

This is one of the most important statements of the entire year on this forum. There’s so much truth to this it’s unreal. It’s why I hate clean channels in high gain amps and prefer designs that can clean up with the guitar volume assuming the pickups aren’t so hot that it never gets there.

I much prefer 1.5 channel amps where the clean channel is an instantaneous gain restructure of the lead channel over a clean that loses all of the balls and cut of the lead channel. I hate cleans that combat drum symbols or sound like they’re going to give you instant tinnitus. I also can’t stand cleans that as you turn up the volume they have no harmonic content to actually amplify and they don’t get louder. Clean channels are one of those things that are hard to get right anymore IMO.

 

[griff10672]

OK, sounds like you might be correct.

I'm trying to stay away from digital modelers and profilers, and stick to actual analog gear. I try to keep my guitar distortion tones in the analogue realm, just for the fun of it. So maybe I'll do some research and choose a few good sounding amps, some with clean tones and some really high gain, and then see what I'm still missing.

OOhhhhhh I like this guy !!

Plenty of people use a clean tube amp with all analog pedals .... that's where gain staging / stacking can really get fun !

Would a really good modeller or something like the Axe FX work ??? Sure ..... I've heard some killer setups .... some of them sound amazing .

but if you want to stay all analog ...... I would get a some kind of Fender or something with a shit ton of headroom ..... bedroom or not ... I would look for a 100 watter ...... the more clean headroom you have .... the more room those analog pedals will have to breath and do their thing ... especially distortion pedals ...

I agree with the above about a high gain heads clean channel might not be good enough ..... I know there's some high gainers out there with awesome clean channels but IMO they are few and far between .... ( my Bogner Shiva 20th had an incredible clean channel that ate pedals up like candy )

The biggest problem I have with this kind of setup is the Fender's don't usually have loops ..... and all my modulation effects go into the loop except for my phaser and envelope filter type pedals .....

but every set up has it's pros and cons .....

 

[Smash]

Volume roll on a high gain single channel for cleans is the way

 

[Omnipotent1]

This is one of the most important statements of the entire year on this forum. There’s so much truth to this it’s unreal. It’s why I hate clean channels in high gain amps and prefer designs that can clean up with the guitar volume assuming the pickups aren’t so hot that it never gets there.

I much prefer 1.5 channel amps where the clean channel is an instantaneous gain restructure of the lead channel over a clean that loses all of the balls and cut of the lead channel. I hate cleans that combat drum symbols or sound like they’re going to give you instant tinnitus. I also can’t stand cleans that as you turn up the volume they have no harmonic content to actually amplify and they don’t get louder. Clean channels are one of those things that are hard to get right anymore IMO.

Whaaaaaat @BlueParfait @glpg80 @Smash I had no clue about this.. it was always in my nature to push everything.. I could never get a decent clean tone out of my high gainers… This might be life changing.. so roll volume back on the lead channel & boost the master to taste?

Also @glpg80 I have been meaning to ask you but kept forgetting.. why is it that most high gain monsters have such a dry dead clean channel? I know you kind of mentioned the gain restructure but could you decipher this for me please I’ve scratched my head for way too many years on this..

 

[BlueParfait]

Whaaaaaat @BlueParfait @glpg80 @Smash I had no clue about this.. it was always in my nature to push everything.. I could never get a decent clean tone out of my high gainers… This might be life changing.. so roll volume back on the lead channel & boost the master to taste?

Also @glpg80 I have been meaning to ask you but kept forgetting.. why is it that most high gain monsters have such a dry dead clean channel? I know you kind of mentioned the gain restructure but could you decipher this for me please I’ve scratched my head for way too many years on this..

Basically if you have a three channel amp, switch to crunch or OD and just roll the volume down, pick lighter etc

It's not clean-clean, but in context it's clean enough

If it's single channel, it's probably dynamic enough too

 

[creep66]

Fender twin>toneczar openhaus.

 

[VonBonfire]

but if you want to stay all analog ...... I would get a some kind of Fender or something with a shit ton of headroom ..... bedroom or not ... I would look for a 100 watter ...... the more clean headroom you have .... the more room those analog pedals will have to breath and do their thing ... especially distortion pedals ...

I like to crank the Twin between 7-8 on the vol control so I'm getting a decent amount of amp breakup but having the power section still maintain it's composure then pair it with a good boots that has a sound that blends seamlessly into the amp's OD. Then I can control everything from the guitar vol. You have enabled this with your creations. I'm gunning for the Pultec EQ to put the icing on the tone cake provided today's labors can cover the bill!!!

 

[romanianreaper]

Yeah there are so many variables with guitar playing and so overwhelming to know what to do. Gigging requires certain things, studio requires certain things, etc.

I agree that if you are in the studio, buying a bunch of pedals isn't really ideal. You'll be chasing all of these tones and have pedals all over the floor.

Since you don't want to go digital or modelling, id look at something like the Sansmp GT2. As far as effects go, maybe just get the ones you'll use a lot.

Ive gone back and forth between bands and my own recordings over and over. It is hard to know what is the best situation because so many choices out there.

 

[glpg80]

Whaaaaaat @BlueParfait @glpg80 @Smash I had no clue about this.. it was always in my nature to push everything.. I could never get a decent clean tone out of my high gainers… This might be life changing.. so roll volume back on the lead channel & boost the master to taste?

Exactly. Someone else is ordering an Abaddon with dual masters for this exact reason. Second master acts as a volume boost when rolling back the guitar volume knob to cut in a mix. The same 2nd master acts as a solo boost when the guitar volume is all the way up and can be helped with a boost pedal. Two master volumes that are switchable and independent are extremely helpful for live playing in single channel amps.

Also @glpg80 I have been meaning to ask you but kept forgetting.. why is it that most high gain monsters have such a dry dead clean channel? I know you kind of mentioned the gain restructure but could you decipher this for me please I’ve scratched my head for way too many years on this..

They’re voiced that way for taste. Designing for clean seems to be copy whatever X person did and call it good enough. Most people say they don’t care about a clean tone with a high gain amp until you need a clean intro and it sounds weak, doesn’t cut in the mix, and you hear the sound guy struggling to get you back into the mix with levels changing on the fly. As someone who gigged I preferred to volume roll a single channel amp until I did alternative rock covers that needed to switch to a clean tone faster than I could volume roll. Just like with everything else amp design I’ll design my own clean channel and it will have an added surprise no one has ever seen before.

 

[Smash]

Whaaaaaat @BlueParfait @glpg80 @Smash I had no clue about this.. it was always in my nature to push everything.. I could never get a decent clean tone out of my high gainers… This might be life changing.. so roll volume back on the lead channel & boost the master to taste?

Also @glpg80 I have been meaning to ask you but kept forgetting.. why is it that most high gain monsters have such a dry dead clean channel? I know you kind of mentioned the gain restructure but could you decipher this for me please I’ve scratched my head for way too many years on this..

Exactly. Someone else is ordering an Abaddon with dual masters for this exact reason. Second master acts as a volume boost when rolling back the guitar volume knob to cut in a mix. The same 2nd master acts as a solo boost when the guitar volume is all the way up and can be helped with a boost pedal. Two master volumes that are switchable and independent are extremely helpful for live playing in single channel amps.



They’re voiced that way for taste. Designing for clean seems to be copy whatever X person did and call it good enough. Most people say they don’t care about a clean tone with a high gain amp until you need a clean intro and it sounds weak, doesn’t cut in the mix, and you hear the sound guy struggling to get you back into the mix with levels changing on the fly. As someone who gigged I preferred to volume roll a single channel amp until I did alternative rock covers that needed to switch to a clean tone faster than I could volume roll. Just like with everything else amp design I’ll design my own clean channel and it will have an added surprise no one has ever seen before.

Most single channels are dynamic enough, but lets say you boost your amp, and gate it with a key. Then rolling volume cuts out the signal to the key of the gate.

My solution is i run a volune pedal end of line before amp. I set the minimum for however "clean" i want to go. This gives full volume on guitar pot always that signals gate not to cut your cleans. Essentially, i have a two channel amp my minimizing or maximizing volume pedal. The.cool thing is i have boosted cleans this way