NAD: Langner (Bay Area Thrash) modded Marshall

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FourT6and2 said:
That's correct. The Aldrich is typically a plate-fed tone stack with 4 tube stages, but it does have a different sound/feel than a 4-stage Marshall with cathode-driven stack.
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I don't know anything about what plate-fed or cathode-driven means. Will have to learn lol. I liked that the Aldrich mods seemed to sound in general more growly, gritty, less smooth than the Cameron Jose mods IME. When I first got that OG Langner modded 2204 mod I immediately thought this is kinda like a much better, more pissed off yet also juicier, better feeling version of the Cameron Aldrich modded 2203 I used to have. Although I usually don't like diode clipping as much I wonder if I would've liked Langner's take on it maybe
 
MetalHeadMike said:
We of course all have different ears and tastes for sure and you and I have talked about it a lot over the years. I totally understand your comments about amps being sterile, overly filtered, cardboard, plastic.

Flat, synthetic, processed, inorganic, cold & sterile, lacking warmth...those are the terms I use that I think mean the same thing. I don't care for amps with those qualities either. There can be some other good things about amps like that but overall I tire of them real quick. Especially when you A/B them next to amps with the opposite qualities.

The MOAB+ I have is 180 degrees from any of those terms. It can be the most juicy fun to play aggressive but warm amp with great organic qualities and great clarity or it can be the most open, raw, punchy tone I've heard out of any Marshall, or any other amp for that matter. I'd go as far as to say it also has a level of articulation and definition that surpasses even any Wizard.

Its more organic-natural-warm and at the same time aggressive than anything else I've had...including every single Wizard. Is the one I got somehow different from others? I have no idea, but this one is about the best tone and feel from an amp of the many I've owned.

I'll end this rant in pure RigTalk fashion...My tone search is over, no more GAS, I'll never buy another amp again, this is it, I'm done, its the best amp I've ever played in my life, but my MOAB+ will be for sale next month...LOL!

EDIT: If my wife could read the above statement, she'd die laughing or punch me in the dick, or both, because she knows how sick in the fuckin head we all are on this site and full of shit we are, no matter how much we think we mean it when say "that's it, I'm done, no more amps"...LOL!
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The Moab is a badass amp for sure. It has the clarity and bloom that I like in an amp.
 
braintheory said:
Agreed. Honestly as picky as I am about many things, I really never cared at all how well amps clean up with volume roll backs. To me that's not at all what I mean when I say an amp has good dynamics and IME will never rival the very best clean amps I've played, but I get functionally a nice thing to have for those that find it useful. I'm just not a practical guy at all and just look for 10/10 in any department I can find, not 7-8's
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I think this is only a feature that matters on a single Channel amp. Most of the time I don't roll back for cleans, but every once in awhile you have to have something cleaner and I love having it there.
 
Smash said:
I think this is only a feature that matters on a single Channel amp. Most of the time I don't roll back for cleans, but every once in awhile you have to have something cleaner and I love having it there.
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I don't need an amp to clean up well, as I don't play out anymore. But, out of nowhere one of my old bands from 15-20 yrs ago called and we're doing a show next weekend. Outdoor gig so I'll be able to push some air. I was going to gig the Snorkler but I brought my Langner 72 for a rehearsal and I was amazed at how well it does clean up with the guitar vol. I can get a bluesy 'dirty clean' which will work fine for the few tunes I need a cleaner sound on...like Far Behind for example.
That was a very surprising bonus for me. The Langner will be at the show.
 
Racerxrated said:
I don't need an amp to clean up well, as I don't play out anymore. But, out of nowhere one of my old bands from 15-20 yrs ago called and we're doing a show next weekend. Outdoor gig so I'll be able to push some air. I was going to gig the Snorkler but I brought my Langner 72 for a rehearsal and I was amazed at how well it does clean up with the guitar vol. I can get a bluesy 'dirty clean' which will work fine for the few tunes I need a cleaner sound on...like Far Behind for example.
That was a very surprising bonus for me. The Langner will be at the show.
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I don’t gig anymore, we just record stuff and a lot of the ambient sections require a nice chimey clean to get the thing we are after so I run a Vox AC15 for that stuff, it just offers a huge amount of difference so the dynamic’s of the song come through better on that type of music. It would be a nightmare to run all that shit live 🫣
The DCP1 also has a perfectly usable clean channel the I’ll run on occasion
 
JTyson said:
I don’t gig anymore, we just record stuff and a lot of the ambient sections require a nice chimey clean to get the thing we are after so I run a Vox AC15 for that stuff, it just offers a huge amount of difference so the dynamic’s of the song come through better on that type of music. It would be a nightmare to run all that shit live 🫣
The DCP1 also has a perfectly usable clean channel the I’ll run on occasion
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A good ‘60’s Copperpanel Vox is one of my all time favorites for cleans. The 2 channel Langner modded 2204 I used to have actually had a really good, warm clean channel, but it never got that pristine
 
Smash said:
I think this is only a feature that matters on a single Channel amp. Most of the time I don't roll back for cleans, but every once in awhile you have to have something cleaner and I love having it there.
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It’s definitely a nice bonus and I understand it can be needed if that’s what one is working with, but I just never heard a truly great quality clean tone from that kind of setup, so it doesn’t interest me. If I try a single channel amp and it sounds just ok I’m not gonna be impressed with it all of sudden because it cleans up super well when you roll back the volume lol. Would that redeem the UU or other amps you know I don’t like? Hell no!! And it doesn’t mean they have good dynamics either if the high gain mode itself is boring or very homogeneous to picking nuances the way those kinds of amps typically are
 
braintheory said:
It’s definitely a nice bonus and I understand it can be needed if that’s what one is working with, but I just never heard a truly great quality clean tone from that kind of setup, so it doesn’t interest me. If I try a single channel amp and it sounds just ok I’m not gonna be impressed with it all of sudden because it cleans up super well when you roll back the volume lol. Would that redeem the UU or other amps you know I don’t like? Hell no!! And it doesn’t mean they have good dynamics either if the high gain mode itself is boring or very homogeneous to picking nuances the way those kinds of amps typically are
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I completely understand. I am easy to impress as far as clean goes. I never really want a true clean as i think it sounds horrible and chimey. So what i am looking for is the pushed clean
 
Smash said:
I completely understand. I am easy to impress as far as clean goes. I never really want a true clean as i think it sounds horrible and chimey. So what i am looking for is the pushed clean
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Haha I like pristine, sparkly, chimey cleans, but it depends I guess what style you’re using it for. You probably would’ve loved the clean channel of the Langner mod I had. It was very warm and always had at least just a little hair/grit to it and a very woody tone. Never got pristine or totally clean, but was a beautiful sound
 
braintheory said:
I don't know anything about what plate-fed or cathode-driven means. Will have to learn lol. I liked that the Aldrich mods seemed to sound in general more growly, gritty, less smooth than the Cameron Jose mods IME. When I first got that OG Langner modded 2204 mod I immediately thought this is kinda like a much better, more pissed off yet also juicier, better feeling version of the Cameron Aldrich modded 2203 I used to have. Although I usually don't like diode clipping as much I wonder if I would've liked Langner's take on it maybe
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Part of the "Marshall sound" is the cathode follower. The tone stack needs to get driven/fed with a signal from the preamp. Traditionally, it's the signal off the cathode of the preceding stage. But that ties up a gain stage. Some smart people figured why not feed the tone stack from the plate instead. This frees up the cathode for an additional gain stage without adding another tube. But it does yield a different sound/feel as you described. A little more growl, less smooth.
 
FourT6and2 said:
Part of the "Marshall sound" is the cathode follower. The tone stack needs to get driven/fed with a signal from the preamp. Traditionally, it's the signal off the cathode of the preceding stage. But that ties up a gain stage. Some smart people figured why not feed the tone stack from the plate instead. This frees up the cathode for an additional gain stage without adding another tube. But it does yield a different sound/feel as you described. A little more growl, less smooth.
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What are some popular production amps that use a plate driven tone stack?
 
FourT6and2 said:
That's correct. The Aldrich is typically a plate-fed tone stack with 4 tube stages, but it does have a different sound/feel than a 4-stage Marshall with cathode-driven stack.
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Splawn uses this architecture too... It has a rawer more direct clanky feel to it. Some like it, some don't. I like it, but I like other amps too. I'm very intrigued with this Langner mod and decided to build a donor amp and send it to @FourT6and2 for the mod.

20250619_100444.jpg
 
FourT6and2 said:
Good question. Maybe the Mesa Boogie Maverick, Hiwatt Super-Hi 50, Fortin Cali 50, mmmm can't think of any others off the top of my head but they're out there.
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Roccaforte HG100 which was borrowed from the TUT amp books if I remember correctly...

I believe the Fried amp Aldrich is also plate driven.
 
MetalHeadMike said:
I don't think I've played clean except for the few years I played a lot of acoustic.
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This is why i dont like true clean channels. I compare it to an acoustic and it always annoys me. But certain songs loose the clarity when played completely overdriven, so i like to back off the gain on a moment's notice to let multiple notes sustain without getting muddy
 
FourT6and2 said:
Part of the "Marshall sound" is the cathode follower. The tone stack needs to get driven/fed with a signal from the preamp. Traditionally, it's the signal off the cathode of the preceding stage. But that ties up a gain stage. Some smart people figured why not feed the tone stack from the plate instead. This frees up the cathode for an additional gain stage without adding another tube. But it does yield a different sound/feel as you described. A little more growl, less smooth.
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Doing some searching it does look like a lot of amps I liked are plate fed. What are some examples of cathode driven mods or amps? Which one is this Langner mod? Do any also combine diode clipping with these? Pardon my ignorance if some of these questions don’t make sense lol

Also, while it seems like I seem to have a preference of this over diode clipping there were still plenty of plate driven mods/amps I didn’t like at all where I’d still much prefer the diode clipping Cameron’s I had, so maybe some other variables also shaping it I’d think
 
A lot of peaveys are plate driven, including ultra series (ultra, xxx, jsx) classic, and 5150
 
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