Strong hints that Van Halen 1 68 lead was just a slave amp and not the main amp.

[Amp_chaser]

You have no idea how many people on here build amps do you??? Do you think you are the only one? There are some really great amp builders on this forum if you venture outside of your VH1 threads...........

I know there are lots. That's why i also make those threads perhaps they will discovers things thank to them. I don't know how many people knew about that single channel amp in ed's basement and that dave mentionned an amps which was josé's ed collaboration and it's also a single channel for ed's tone. So that makes the hybrid between jcm 800 and 1959 a legit way to experiment. I also posted the guts of an exclusive josé amp for people to test with. But after my personal tests it's not that one that will give ed's tone it will give something gainier and that could also be interesting to experiment with for other mods.

Honnestly if someone could make that amp i would just buy it and go on other advertures like making my own mods. But unfortunately i believe that except people from the vh crew and Dave Friedman and some people close to him no one knows what was really going on with that first album tone. And perhaps that Dave only knows some elements of that early vh mod but has still many interrogations about values and setups.

 

[harddriver]

Anyone that plays the "It's really his hands" card has likely never played a variac'd amp with underbiased tubes.

That is the first question: "Are you experienced?"

You do not get early Ed without this, you cannot understand the evolution of his sound without this.

You cannot understand him without playing pure nickel strings either. HALF of the icepick people bitch about is nickel plated steel strings.

Pure Nickel strings have a higher tension, allowing you to play lighter gauge for the same scale length and remove mud from the bottom end of the EQ, allowing for more exaggerated Bass settings like 10. This is how 8.5-40 on a 25.5" scale makes sense.

It's clear Ed's bottom had the hardness of a Fender TMB tonestack, which produces a smile "Loudness" EQ when dimed. Less so with a 50K mid pot, but still necessary to boost mids if you want the vocal, full bodied midrange.

Bandmaster theory makes a lot of sense, and if you've not played a modified '59 style TMB you won't understand. Zinky's OD circuit in the Tone Master and MOFO amps does this, mated with overbias and low screen resistors, somehwat like a 5150, which only sound right at high volume.

If you aren't slaving, the power amp gain and drive has to breathe, and that happens with low screen resistors. 5150's have 100 ohm, Zinky's have 470 Ohm. Old Marshalls had none, or lower than 1K values which were introduced to balance for inferior modern EL34 type offerings.

In other words, there are so many links in the chain to create ED tones that most non-obscessed (read: NOT real Disciples/Enthusiasts) will ignore and simplify causuistry (set of relationships) for cause, or one factor: "Hands."

Without the proper power amp mojo, it ain't what Ed was talking about. If you haven't felt it, go for it, because it's probably the most essential aspect of his idea of tone.

Fender Xl150's pure nickel 9-40 strings has a certain feel and tone if you've played them. I used to be stocked up on them for my Franky, Fender only make 9-42's now.

 

[Amp_chaser]

Fender Xl150's pure nickel 9-40 strings has certain feel and tone if you've played them. I used to be stocked up on them for my Franky, Fender only make 9-42's now.

Yeah i tried to buy those they don't do them anymore x)... However if i remember correctly there is stringjoy still making nickel strings with close thickness compared to ed's string gauges.

https://stringjoy.com/guitarstrings...-strings/broadways/classic-super-light-gauge/<

i never tried those i should give them a try.

 

[Lightning]

Pyramid strings makes a Eddie Van Halen set of strings 9-40 pure nickel and they are very nice I use them as we speak I know fender stopped making the 9-40 set which I used all the time

 

[Nigel]

Fender Xl150's pure nickel 9-40 strings has a certain feel and tone if you've played them. I used to be stocked up on them for my Franky, Fender only make 9-42's now.

I play the 150R 10-46 in C# on a 25.5" scale and it slaps.

 

[Nigel]

Pyramid strings makes a Eddie Van Halen set of strings 9-40 pure nickel and they are very nice I use them as we speak I know fender stopped making the 9-40 set which I used all the time

Pure Nickel Chads know. Perhaps we shouldn't advertise it. hehe

 

[Lightning]

The Fender XL150 9-40 pure nickel set was the string set Eddie used from the early days up until he was with Ernie Ball Musicman(his signature guitar).

 

[mentoneman]

my current custom set

 

[Lightning]

Mentoneman here’s Stringjoys Eddie Van Halen set which I’ve tried and they are good Stringjoy and Pyramid make a 9-40 pure nickel

 

[mentoneman]

Mentoneman here’s Stringjoys Eddie Van Halen set which I’ve tried and they are good Stringjoy and Pyramid make a 9-40 pure nickel

noice!

i added a dash more meat on the high strings but it’s pretty close. the more important element to me is the sound and playability of the wound strings as the pick traverses those.

 

[Anje]

I know that there are mostly guitar players here but there are amps builders and people who like to experiment too.

What i wished was to get back to those old metroforums days. My posts aren't made to annoy players but it was more directed to amp builders trying to get that tone. I think that since eddie is gone many new elements and clues came forth and it is an opportunity to try new things. That's why i do those threads. Why ? because you could easily think that all those techs said it was stock so it is. The same with Jim's Gaustaad's experiments but what people seem to forget is that there is a console doing some work behind his clips. Perhaps it was done that way but what if not ? Jim did a great job and contribution however he never went threw the modding rabbit hole so he leaves half of the possibilities open. Moerover he never took into account the fact that it was clearly 2 amps that were used in the first record.
I think that the 2 people which are the closest are Mike audette with his r/t mod and Ossie Ahsen with his number 1 amp. In my opinion they are way closer than jim because they don't use any eq.

yes you're right for the freeze mod. however i tend to believe there is perhaps a little bit more inside ed's pedal like a small clean boost. That would explain the rise in volume when kicking a pedal on. Or perhaps some kind of buffer when you look at the long cables he was using it would make sense.

For the record, I do love the "tech" and "gear" aspect of music too; what I posted before has nothing to do to me with being more of a "player" than a "builder", or whatever.

Ossie's "The 1" amp is mostly a stock SL into a load box, isn't it?

About the MXR: those are already buffered stock. I have an old early script, it does have a very particular "sound", with a slight "thickening boost" effect when in line. No need for a Jose mod to get that with one of those. Love that pedal, it's one of those "magic old stuff" ingredient to me.

 

[harddriver]

Wow 15 bucks for the Stringjoys..... for a set of nickel strings that most people would bypass when they were run of the mill Fender XL150's.................I wish I had bought more when Fender was still making them 5-7 bucks a set............

 

[harddriver]

For the record, I do love the "tech" and "gear" aspect of music too; what I posted before has nothing to do to me with being more of a "player" than a "builder", or whatever.

Ossie's "The 1" amp is mostly a stock SL into a load box, isn't it?

About the MXR: those are already buffered stock. I have an old early script, it does have a very particular "sound", with a slight "thickening boost" effect when in line. No need for a Jose mod to get that with one of those. Love that pedal, it's one of those "magic old stuff" ingredient to me.

There is enough boost given from a stock vintage Script MXR Phase 90 which I also have had for years. I did have that Analogman modded 74 with wet dry mix knob mod and set slightly counterclockwise off of 12 noon the pedal does provide a bit more boost the phase effect is slightly lessened.

I fully agree the Phase 90 is not the main driver of gain into Ed's 68 plexi, it just another sum of the parts of the signal chain. Mr Chaser keeps conflating the VH1 recorded tone and what the amp actually sounded like "WHILE STANDING IN FRONT OF THE AMP", the Room Mic clips and live clips clearly prove whatever was done to enhance that base tone was done by Ted Templemen, Don Landee and the other recording engineers.

 

[Lightning]

Pyramid strings are cheaper $9 a set

 

[mentoneman]

last night’s festivities included Ellis pickups, Les Pauls, vintage 335, Charvel, Suhr cranking through the Jose, JEL 20, Red Plate and NMV Marshalls through the Fryette PS

not a bad tone in the house!

 

[Amp_chaser]

For the record, I do love the "tech" and "gear" aspect of music too; what I posted before has nothing to do to me with being more of a "player" than a "builder", or whatever.

Ossie's "The 1" amp is mostly a stock SL into a load box, isn't it?

About the MXR: those are already buffered stock. I have an old early script, it does have a very particular "sound", with a slight "thickening boost" effect when in line. No need for a Jose mod to get that with one of those. Love that pedal, it's one of those "magic old stuff" ingredient to me.

The ossie number 1 is a "stock" plexi but it has that mod described by zeke clark on the ot. He made some videos of the build and stopped them after installing the ot on purpose. It's a special wound ot with a mod. It really shifts the tone quite a bit and compresses the tone a lot everything seems tighter with some distortion added but not a lot.

 

[Amp_chaser]

last night’s festivities included Ellis pickups, Les Pauls, vintage 335, Charvel, Suhr cranking through the Jose, JEL 20, Red Plate and NMV Marshalls through the Fryette PS

View attachment 414976

not a bad tone in the house!

wow that's a vault haha. My advice get a Peavey Vtm if you want another josé amp a little bit more Evh oriented. They are crazy cheap for the tones they deliver. James brown built it from the guts of a special josé. He is the guy who built the peavey evh 5150 and the modern evh amps.

 

[mentoneman]

wow that's a vault haha. My advice get a Peavey Vtm if you want another josé amp a little bit more Evh oriented. They are crazy cheap for the tones they deliver. James brown built it from the guts of a special josé. He is the guy who built the peavey evh 5150 and the modern evh amps.

between my peacemaker and synergy rig i’m good!

 

[Amp_chaser]

There is enough boost given from a stock vintage Script MXR Phase 90 which I also have had for years. I did have that Analogman modded 74 with wet dry mix knob mod and set slightly counterclockwise off of 12 noon the pedal does provide a bit more boost the phase effect is slightly lessened.

I fully agree the Phase 90 is not the main driver of gain into Ed's 68 plexi, it just another sum of the parts of the signal chain. Mr Chaser keeps conflating the VH1 recorded tone and what the amp actually sounded like "WHILE STANDING IN FRONT OF THE AMP", the Room Mic clips and live clips clearly prove whatever was done to enhance that base tone was done by Ted Templemen, Don Landee and the other recording engineers.

"Eddie Van Halen mentioned using two Marshall amp heads during the recording of Van Halen's debut album in a 1978 interview with Young Guitar magazine. While he confirmed the use of two amps, he did not provide specific details about the second amplifier."

with jas obrecht :

"See, okay, I use a combination of two different amps. They’re both Marshalls, but one of them is actually lower-powered and the other one is boosted. And I use them together. "

here he even mentions that he doesn't play eruption on the same amp :
"But I use three 100-watt amps for the main set � what I call it � and then I do my guitar solo, and after that I change guitars and amps to setup number two."

 

[harddriver]

"Eddie Van Halen mentioned using two Marshall amp heads during the recording of Van Halen's debut album in a 1978 interview with Young Guitar magazine. While he confirmed the use of two amps, he did not provide specific details about the second amplifier."

with jas obrecht :

"See, okay, I use a combination of two different amps. They’re both Marshalls, but one of them is actually lower-powered and the other one is boosted. And I use them together. "

here he even mentions that he doesn't play eruption on the same amp :
"But I use three 100-watt amps for the main set � what I call it � and then I do my guitar solo, and after that I change guitars and amps to setup number two."

Did you critically listen with unbiased ears to those two clips of eruption, what differences/similarities did you hear between the two clips????????????

I've read that same account eons ago as most others have (maybe before you were born) who are interested in ED stuff. So Ed had three Magic Marshalls then or was it just 12301 that was THE Jose/Cascaded gain stage amp? If that were the case then Ed would always need to be playing 12301 to get his sound which by all accounts according to this written interview could be had from three or more different Marshalls in 1977/78. You should read and digest Anje's last post there is alot of wisdom in what he wrote.

The information you are presenting to support your arguments is logically bebunking your proposed theories. This points one right back to Ed losing all of his personal amps coming back from Japan and not getting them back until December 1978. From July to December all those shows were done with replacement Marshalls mostly newer JMP ones with Musicman HD130's/65 being used for power amps and the tones were just as glorious than with his personal amps. The tone secret was how Ed was using those amps; variacing, loading them down then reamping and the exact signal chain which we WILL NEVER KNOW. The best anyone can do is get close or exact to what is heard live and then try out all the publicly known signal chains. pickups and when it brings a smile to your face and feels good when you play, just enjoy it as many have and continue to do.

I posted the room mic clip and studio clip of Eruption for you to compare/contrast, you either hear it or you don't. The room mic clips sound like a Plexi/Superlead front end being pushed by an PAF/PAF ish pickup, MXR flanger, MXR Phase 90, one or two EP3 echoplexes, and at times an MXR 6 Band EQ with Ed playing the shit out of that junker guitar.

The mastered studio recording is crisper, crunchier, more aggressive with tons of ratty high end detail that cuts through the mix and Ed hated that tone as much as we love it, he despised it. Even you said you do not like Ed's live 77/78 tour tones but that IS WHAT THE AMP SOUNDS LIKE, the room mics PROVE it. After Ed got some street cred he had more control over what he wanted his guitar/amp tone to sound like recorded and that was VHII and ED stopped what ever was done in the recording of VH1, what ever it was. The amp did not change, it was how that amp was recorded for VHII versus VH1.

Again no one is saying a cascaded circuit can't sound great, we just feel after years of dissecting the tones that a stock Marshall Plexi is most likely what is being heard on VH1.