Rumored Mesa Mark James Hetfield signature

[SoooRad]

Also, of course changes were made to the 5150. That's how the 5152 came to be, same with the EVH stuff going through the OG, Stealth, etc.

Ed also had greenbacks in his cabs vs the Sheffields that the Peavey's came with. I don't think there was anything really devious about it, and its unfortunate that it's sort of framed that way.

 

[angelspade]

Also, of course changes were made to the 5150. That's how the 5152 came to be, same with the EVH stuff going through the OG, Stealth, etc.

Ed also had greenbacks in his cabs vs the Sheffields that the Peavey's came with. I don't think there was anything really devious about it, and its unfortunate that it's sort of framed that way.

I agree with this...He had prototypes at that time that Nuno is referring to that likely had a few differences. Not a big deal. Loading the stages with Randall signature models and actually playing through a stock JCM2000 with a Rat at the front end...Maybe a little deceptive. Either way, artists do this all the time.

 

[DrewJD82]

If you ever saw them live back in the day of 2C+ or Triaxis rigs you'd know Im right. Their live tone is weak in comparison to real amps. No I haven't seen them with the latest Snax version but at best it could equal and never exceed what they once were live.

If you don’t think their rigs sound exactly how the band wants them to sound, you’re reaching for something that isn’t there. End of story.

I saw them at the Boston Garden in ‘08, all I could hear was kick drum and James’ vocals. Last 4x I saw them I got a perfect mix, with the last time being at GIllette. My personal experiences seeing them line up far more closely with what Big Mick, Chad and Justin, their FOH and guitar techs, have stated about the switch from Fractal, far, far, far, far more than it does what the “toobs rool digital droolz” crowd speculates on while not having any actual experience with an AxeFX.

 

[angelspade]

If you don’t think their rigs sound exactly how the band wants them to sound, you’re reaching for something that isn’t there. End of story.

Two thing can be true at once. James and Kirk are choosing to use this technology. That said, I'm pretty sure that I have seen an interview with James' tech where he concedes that the band realizes that they are giving up something tonally in order to have versatility, reliability, ease of travel, etc with the modelers. They are fully aware that their combination of tube amps actually sounds and feels "better", which is why they use them exclusively in the studio. There is compromise with the modelers, but for some...The juice is worth the squeeze.

 

[DrewJD82]

All I know is every time I have seen a 2 guitar band and one has a tube amp and the other has a modeler you can't hear the player with the modeler in the live mix. I experienced it myself being the guy with the modeler. Now put it into a tube power section and it gets better but then what is the point of the modeler? What else besides phase cancellation can be the cause? Literally both can be played on their own and match the volume but then together the modeler just disappears in the mix. I am genuinely wanting to know what the cause is if it isn't phasing?

Experience. If a JCM 800 patch dialed to sound like the real deal next to it then doesn't cut through it isn't the dialing. I'm far from the only guitar player with this experience. Modelers are the fuck dolls of the guitar world. Some are cheap blow up versions some are like the more real ones but none are as satisfying as the real thing.

You’re more focused on shitting on the thing you don’t understand than you are making a valid point.

What was the modeler coming out of? Studio monitors? A power amp and a cabinet? Solid state power amp or a tube power amp? FRFR System?

100% of the time this is never mentioned and then when you dig down, it’s someone expecting a pair of 8” studio monitors to sound like a 1960B cab.

 

[DrewJD82]

Two thing can be true at once. James and Kirk are choosing to use this technology. That said, I'm pretty sure that I have seen an interview with James' tech where he concedes that the band realizes that they are giving up something tonally in order to have versatility, reliability, ease of travel, etc with the modelers. They are fully aware that their combination of tube amps actually sounds and feels "better", which is why they use them exclusively in the studio. There is compromise with the modelers, but for some...The juice is worth the squeeze.

Well, here he is saying they weren’t going for the same thing, but better.

(timestamped from where they start talking about the differences)


Pretty certain this is the interview where he also said they set both rigs up side by side and when no one could tell the difference they were good to go.

This interview also states something that people seem to refuse to acknowledge for some reason, but Kirk and James both don’t want to use as much distortion in their tones anymore. Fiddleman said it on the ToneTalk episode as well, he was constantly trying to get them to crank the distortion up but they just aren’t having it these days. For some reason that keeps getting blamed on the Fracals, despite being able to add however much dirt one could want on one.

It’s just absurd to me that you’ve got the guys who actually hear this stuff on a daily basis and get paid some good money to ensure it all does what it’s supposed to, stating what they have about using Fractals and the same anti-modeling types believe they know more than these guys.

 

[angelspade]

If we can hear the unfavorable differences in tone, feel and response when Metallica plays live...then so can they. If you actually believe that Hetfield cannot tell the difference between his blended tube amps and the modeling amps they use live...then I don't know what to tell you, other than that is just plain silly. I am not by any means anti-modeling technology. But something just seems to be "missing" when compared to a great tube amp. Just my opinion.

 

[DrewJD82]

If we can hear the unfavorable differences in tone, feel and response when Metallica plays live...then so can they. If you actually believe that Hetfield cannot tell the difference between his blended tube amps and the modeling amps they use live...then I don't know what to tell you, other than that is just plain silly. I am not by any means anti-modeling technology. But something just seems to be "missing" when compared to a great tube amp. Just my opinion.

You’re straight up ignoring what their own techs and Kirk himself have said about them. The guys that actually run the rigs every day and have heard them at every gig they’ve played since they switched and put the actual work into matching the rigs.

Have YOU sat in a room with the rigs? Have YOU heard the rigs at multiple venues and in different conditions? Have YOU had Hetfield telling you “Nope, not there yet”? Got any idea in the differences between PA systems back in the day and now, on the level they’re using them at? You know, all the actual work that goes into what these guys do every single day?

It’s not like there’s Fractal ads with Hetfield and Hammett on them stating “We can’t tell the difference! Buy a Fractal!”, Fractal most certainly wouldn’t be able to compete with Mesa when it comes to endorsements and paying someone to promote their gear, so the usual “Selloutica just gettin’ paid” crowd can’t use that one.

 

[angelspade]

You’re straight up ignoring what their own techs and Kirk himself have said about them. The guys that actually run the rigs every day and have heard them at every gig they’ve played since they switched and put the actual work into matching the rigs.

Have YOU sat in a room with the rigs? Have YOU heard the rigs at multiple venues and in different conditions? Have YOU had Hetfield telling you “Nope, not there yet”? Got any idea in the differences between PA systems back in the day and now, on the level they’re using them at? You know, all the actual work that goes into what these guys do every single day?

It’s not like there’s Fractal ads with Hetfield and Hammett on them stating “We can all tell the difference! Buy a Fractal!”, Fractal most certainly wouldn’t be able to compete with Mesa when it comes to endorsements and paying someone to promote their gear, so the usual “Selloutica just gettin’ paid” crowd can’t use that one.

Thanks for that, appreciated. Again...if we can all tell the difference (and judging by many threads here..It appears that we all can). Then so can they. It's a compromise, and they understand that. I know this to be true, and you are under no obligation to agree.

 

[DrewJD82]

Thanks for that, appreciated. Again...if we can all tell the difference (and judging by many threads here..It sppears that we all can). Then so can they. It's a compromise, and they understand that. I know this to be true, and you are under no obligation to agree.

And here’s Kirk saying how one of their biggest issues was their amps sounding different every night…..so did ya’ll just happen to catch them on the nights their amps sounded super duper good? Not to mention Beato commenting on the clarity-



I don’t doubt you guys hear differences, but I’m 100% confident you’re all ignoring everything that goes into it and just citing the Fractal as a point of failure when there’s a million variables that have changed over the years and the biggest reason they switched was due to the inconsistencies with the amp and feel their sound is better now because of the switch. They can’t even dial in tones like they did for arenas, it’d sound like ass in a stadium. Same way a bedroom tone won’t work in a live venue, just multitudes bigger.

The issue I take with that is that it’s not an accurate discussion of gear and simply comes off as a bunch of dudes who correlate their dick size with how many tubes they own, rather than anything involving actual tone.

FWIW, I still love amps and use them all the time. Somehow I keep accumulating 2x12s and just grabbed a 4x12 and lug it to every single band practice that I plug a tube amp into. My use of a Fractal unit really has no bearing on amps and once I buy a Fryette or a KSR power amp, I’ll be using that to power my cabs with and I’ll be leaving the heads at home.

 

[Techdeth]

In my opinion...the Peavey 5150 series amps were the PERFECT balance of price and quality: affordable - reliable - sound killer

You can’t beat it . And it’s now like a top 5 for me anymore . But live they just always produce . I switched too Steath 100 6l6 because of boredom . I used 5150 for years live and in studio . I have to say I like them the same

 

[TheGreatGreen]

I love my tube amps as much as the next guy but let’s also not pretend tube amps are always 100% of the time guaranteed to produce glorious magical tone of the gods.

There are some Metallica shows that set the bar for how good live high gain can be, but there are also plenty of all-tube Metallica gigs that sounded like complete ass. For starters, all you have to do to find a few of them is poke around through the live shows in some of the Deluxe Box Sets to hear just how awful their live tube rigs sounded some of the time.

 

[Tone Monster]

I’ve seen em 9-10 times. It’s honestly the venue. Saw them in Dallas 2 years ago. Sounded huge and balanced. Saw them last year in Seattle in open air stadium. MUCH less clear. Saw them 5 years ago outside venue in Austin. Sounded so boomy I gave up. TERRIBLE…I was also at the Cunning Stunts DVD show. Sounded massive.