Recording with IRs and EQ-ing in Post

[SI]

For the folks that record with IRs, do you ever not eq in post?

I find that without eq-ing in post the tone is always dull/covered with a blanket…sounds nothing like a cab in the room

Just looking for experiences from other folks. Would love to hear what load box, IR, method you use if not eq-ing in post

Thanks in advance

 

[tjnx]

I always have to. I don't record with the IR baked in, usually add it with NAD IR for more flexibility. Adding a room mic / reverb helps quite a bit but there is usually a lot of eq-ing no matter what. After you low-pass and remove whistles adding a high shelf is probably the step that's missing.

Josh Middleton has a good video on this somewhere.

 

[SI]

I always have to. I don't record with the IR baked in, usually add it with NAD IR for more flexibility. Adding a room mic / reverb helps quite a bit but there is usually a lot of eq-ing no matter what. After you low-pass and remove whistles adding a high shelf is probably the step that's missing.

Josh Middleton has a good video on this somewhere.

I’ll have to check out his vids! If you happen to come across it and would t mind linking me, I’d greatly appreciate it!!

 

[TheGreatGreen]

A well made IR is basically indistinguishable from its real life source.
If you think you *have* to post-EQ an IR, chances are you’d feel the same need to post-EQ the real cab+mic combo used to make it as well.

IR's tend to be a funny business for guitar players because when a player is getting into IR's, chances are they're also just getting into listening to their own playing and tone through monitors or PA speakers instead of directly from the cab in the room. Even if they're used to recording, they're still probably used to hearing some version of a real cab somewhere. Moving to IR's can represent a huge shift that introduces a lot of new factors and variables into their sound they never had to consider before, like PA speakers or monitors, in addition to the player now being effortlessly able to try out a ton of new cabs and mic combos to which they've never had previous access, most of which just flat out don't mix well with the rest of their setup. But still, the player is a conservative creature who is aware he's now using IR's, which he knows are digital (horror movie sound effect here), so naturally, out of all the new pieces in the tone, the IR's are the big new top-of-mind thing these players are most directly interacting with, so they baiscally attribute all of the weirdness that comes with changing from cab in the room to FRFR, and blame it squarely on the IR.

It’s not the IR, it’s that great recorded high gain guitar tone is really hard to get right.

 

[tjnx]

I’ll have to check out his vids! If you happen to come across it and would t mind linking me, I’d greatly appreciate it!!

I think these 2 cover it but basically its just boosting to make up for your cuts. I do this in separate steps with multiple versions of the same plugin to cover the filters, notches, and shelves just because I don't have Fabfilter and it keeps it a bit more organized.

 

[SI]

I think these 2 cover it but basically its just boosting to make up for your cuts. I do this in separate steps with multiple versions of the same plugin to cover the filters, notches, and shelves just because I don't have Fabfilter and it keeps it a bit more organized.

Thanks very much!!!

 

[Dan Gleesak]

I rarely eq the guitar tracks specifically, just an overall master eq
I also barely know what I’m doing

 

[buddachile]

A well made IR is basically indistinguishable from its real life source.
If you think you *have* to post-EQ an IR, chances are you’d feel the same need to post-EQ the real cab+mic combo used to make it as well.

IR's tend to be a funny business for guitar players because when a player is getting into IR's, chances are they're also just getting into listening to their own playing and tone through monitors or PA speakers instead of directly from the cab in the room. Even if they're used to recording, they're still probably used to hearing some version of a real cab somewhere. Moving to IR's can represent a huge shift that introduces a lot of new factors and variables into their sound they never had to consider before, like PA speakers or monitors, in addition to the player now being effortlessly able to try out a ton of new cabs and mic combos to which they've never had previous access, most of which just flat out don't mix well with the rest of their setup. But still, the player is a conservative creature who is aware he's now using IR's, which he knows is digital (horror movie sound effect here), so naturally, out of all the new pieces in the tone, the IR's are the big new top-of-mind thing these players are most directly interacting with, so they baiscally attribute all of the weirdness that comes with changing from cab in the room to FRFR, and blame it squarely on the IR.

It’s not the IR, it’s that great recorded high gain guitar tone is really hard to get right.

Well put.

Also, I always expect to EQ guitar tracks, whether using IR's or mics, because it's part of what you do to place a sound in a mix. For instnce, you might have to cut lows not because the guitar tone is too bassy but because the bass takes precedence in that frequency range.

 

[DrewJD82]

I end up lo/hi passing the guitars pretty much every time. I mix as I track so the later in the tracking it is, the less EQ I'll need but I still shy away from dialing things in too 'mix ready' because until I'm just focused on the mix I really don't know what it'll require and that can ultimately make the 'mix ready' stuff sound like shit. I have this preset I made for SSLChannel in Logic, it's my starting point for pretty much every guitar track; at most it's several dB of 1.5K, maybe something around 1K, nothing in the low mids and the usual hacking of 80hz and lower if the hi pass isn't doing it.

Whether it's an amp/load box or my AxeFX, I try to get the sounds coming out of the monitors to sound as close as an amp sitting right next to me would sound, it's the main way I play at home and it wouldn't be any fun at all to play with neutered tones. Once I got these Yamaha HS8's and got some bass happening without a sub it opened the door for getting things much closer to how it sounds playing an amp in a room. I'd much, much rather play with it feeling as natural as can be and have to hack everything under 80hz off then cut the balls off first and wonder how it'll turn out in the end.

Once a song's well into the mix and I decide to add some guitars, if i hear something standing out as I'm recording it I'll address it before tracking, like sometimes the low end is way too much for tight, palm muted chugging stuff once the bass is already mixed, so to get my tracking tighter I'll hack it off on the amp before it's tracked.

 

[SI]

I end up lo/hi passing the guitars pretty much every time. I mix as I track so the later in the tracking it is, the less EQ I'll need but I still shy away from dialing things in too 'mix ready' because until I'm just focused on the mix I really don't know what it'll require and that can ultimately make the 'mix ready' stuff sound like shit. I have this preset I made for SSLChannel in Logic, it's my starting point for pretty much every guitar track; at most it's several dB of 1.5K, maybe something around 1K, nothing in the low mids and the usual hacking of 80hz and lower if the hi pass isn't doing it.

View attachment 417806

Whether it's an amp/load box or my AxeFX, I try to get the sounds coming out of the monitors to sound as close as an amp sitting right next to me would sound, it's the main way I play at home and it wouldn't be any fun at all to play with neutered tones. Once I got these Yamaha HS8's and got some bass happening without a sub it opened the door for getting things much closer to how it sounds playing an amp in a room. I'd much, much rather play with it feeling as natural as can be and have to hack everything under 80hz off then cut the balls off first and wonder how it'll turn out in the end.

Once a song's well into the mix and I decide to add some guitars, if i hear something standing out as I'm recording it I'll address it before tracking, like sometimes the low end is way too much for tight, palm muted chugging stuff once the bass is already mixed, so to get my tracking tighter I'll hack it off on the amp before it's tracked.

This is super helpful, thanks a lot!

 

[JDs Couch]

I end up lo/hi passing the guitars pretty much every time. I mix as I track so the later in the tracking it is, the less EQ I'll need but I still shy away from dialing things in too 'mix ready' because until I'm just focused on the mix I really don't know what it'll require and that can ultimately make the 'mix ready' stuff sound like shit. I have this preset I made for SSLChannel in Logic, it's my starting point for pretty much every guitar track; at most it's several dB of 1.5K, maybe something around 1K, nothing in the low mids and the usual hacking of 80hz and lower if the hi pass isn't doing it.

View attachment 417806

Whether it's an amp/load box or my AxeFX, I try to get the sounds coming out of the monitors to sound as close as an amp sitting right next to me would sound, it's the main way I play at home and it wouldn't be any fun at all to play with neutered tones. Once I got these Yamaha HS8's and got some bass happening without a sub it opened the door for getting things much closer to how it sounds playing an amp in a room. I'd much, much rather play with it feeling as natural as can be and have to hack everything under 80hz off then cut the balls off first and wonder how it'll turn out in the end.

Once a song's well into the mix and I decide to add some guitars, if i hear something standing out as I'm recording it I'll address it before tracking, like sometimes the low end is way too much for tight, palm muted chugging stuff once the bass is already mixed, so to get my tracking tighter I'll hack it off on the amp before it's tracked.

I had the Waves SSL channel plugins for a while before a computer crash. I loved those plugins.

 

[Smash]

I have never done post eq. I used to do silent recording with a line out and the two notes IR was literally identical to a micd v30

 

[SI]

used to do

What are you doing now if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[tallcoolone]

A well made IR is basically indistinguishable from its real life source.
If you think you *have* to post-EQ an IR, chances are you’d feel the same need to post-EQ the real cab+mic combo used to make it as well.

IR's tend to be a funny business for guitar players because when a player is getting into IR's, chances are they're also just getting into listening to their own playing and tone through monitors or PA speakers instead of directly from the cab in the room. Even if they're used to recording, they're still probably used to hearing some version of a real cab somewhere. Moving to IR's can represent a huge shift that introduces a lot of new factors and variables into their sound they never had to consider before, like PA speakers or monitors, in addition to the player now being effortlessly able to try out a ton of new cabs and mic combos to which they've never had previous access, most of which just flat out don't mix well with the rest of their setup. But still, the player is a conservative creature who is aware he's now using IR's, which he knows are digital (horror movie sound effect here), so naturally, out of all the new pieces in the tone, the IR's are the big new top-of-mind thing these players are most directly interacting with, so they baiscally attribute all of the weirdness that comes with changing from cab in the room to FRFR, and blame it squarely on the IR.

It’s not the IR, it’s that great recorded high gain guitar tone is really hard to get right.

Well said

 

[Smash]

What are you doing now if you don’t mind me asking?

I only mic a cab now. I dont have an amp with a line out. Even when i did, my favorite way to record was to play at full volume through the cab while simultaneously running the line out to the IR.

I feel like you play with a ton more feeling when you have the sag and saturation of a tube amp going and can feel the punch

 

[rushcentrale]

A well made IR is basically indistinguishable from its real life source.
If you think you *have* to post-EQ an IR, chances are you’d feel the same need to post-EQ the real cab+mic combo used to make it as well.

IR's tend to be a funny business for guitar players because when a player is getting into IR's, chances are they're also just getting into listening to their own playing and tone through monitors or PA speakers instead of directly from the cab in the room. Even if they're used to recording, they're still probably used to hearing some version of a real cab somewhere. Moving to IR's can represent a huge shift that introduces a lot of new factors and variables into their sound they never had to consider before, like PA speakers or monitors, in addition to the player now being effortlessly able to try out a ton of new cabs and mic combos to which they've never had previous access, most of which just flat out don't mix well with the rest of their setup. But still, the player is a conservative creature who is aware he's now using IR's, which he knows are digital (horror movie sound effect here), so naturally, out of all the new pieces in the tone, the IR's are the big new top-of-mind thing these players are most directly interacting with, so they baiscally attribute all of the weirdness that comes with changing from cab in the room to FRFR, and blame it squarely on the IR.

It’s not the IR, it’s that great recorded high gain guitar tone is really hard to get right.

This should be in an educational book. Nothing but truth here.

 

[rushcentrale]

If it's a dense mix, I always hi-pass guitars not because they always need it, but just to get a little more perceived room for the bass and sub info.

When people often say good "sit-in-the-mix" amps, these are the ones where you don't have to do much of anything to besides getting the mic right.

 

[buddachile]

I feel like you play with a ton more feeling when you have the sag and saturation of a tube amp going and can feel the punch

That's a really interesting point. It definitely brings up the choice of where you stand when recording guitar—in the same room as the cab, or in the control room.

Back in the 90s, most guitarists I knew, including myself, would be in the control room while tracking. Even for live studio sessions, we'd isolate the cabs to prevent bleed in the drum tracks.

But now, in my own studio where the control room and tracking room are the same, I sometimes track with isolation headphones on and the amp blasting right next to me, and it just feels great.

Since I use both modeled/captured and real amps, I can tell you that my decision on how to record a track really depends on the song and the playing experience I'm after, not whether the tech I'm using is digital or a real amp. I generally choose to have the cab blasting right next to me when I want the track to incorporate natural feedback on sustained chords or single notes.

 

[Smash]

That's a really interesting point. It definitely brings up the choice of where you stand when recording guitar—in the same room as the cab, or in the control room.

Back in the 90s, most guitarists I knew, including myself, would be in the control room while tracking. Even for live studio sessions, we'd isolate the cabs to prevent bleed in the drum tracks.

But now, in my own studio where the control room and tracking room are the same, I sometimes track with isolation headphones on and the amp blasting right next to me, and it just feels great.

Since I use both modeled/captured and real amps, I can tell you that my decision on how to record a track really depends on the song and the playing experience I'm after. I generally choose to have the cab blasting right next to me when I want the track to incorporate natural feedback on sustained chords or single notes.

When i was doing it, i had the eq for a close mic. It worked perfectly for IR. It was gratingly bright in the room, so i dealt with it because the recorded tone was what i was after. But the feel of playing at full volume and the interaction with the amp helped me to play like i was on stage. Silent recording can be tough to play with real feeling sometimes

 

[Smash]

But honestly, my experience was my preferred method, but due to my shitty playing and the no post EQ, people told me my tone was raw. I personally dig an amp that sounds on fire vs a smooth one