RedPlated
Well-known member
No worries. I'm cool with whatever you think is best for you. No one is trying to change your opinion.
Presence Circuit and Shunt Resistor
- Thread starter FourT6and2
- Start date
Arch Stanton
Dollar Store Satriani
Probably the most insightful thing said about tube amp tech in quite some time.
glpg80
Well-known member
I honestly don’t care how X person solved a problem. Everyone here knows you can accomplish the same intended sonic goal many different ways. Just because someone does something one way doesn’t mean I’m inclined to do so. The real challenge is sonically knowing how to accomplish the same goal somewhere else in the amplifier circuit not commonly known or copied.
I do agree with Jeremy though, fuck a 25k presence. It’s just uncalled for if you carry enough high end throughout the total circuit which is challenging for stability, layout, and sonic reasons.
I do agree with Jeremy though, fuck a 25k presence. It’s just uncalled for if you carry enough high end throughout the total circuit which is challenging for stability, layout, and sonic reasons.
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RedPlated
Well-known member
Yeah. Matt will destroy me with theory and electrical engineering knowledge he has. But he and I will still bounce ideas of each other. Kind of helps having varying perspectives in respect to the same problem. It's kind of like learning to work on cars by taking them apart vs going to a technical institute. Both have their advantages in practice.
glpg80
Well-known member
We bounce ideas off of each other literally weekly. Actually Jeremy has a lot of real world experience that backs up the theory quite well. You do something long enough and solve enough problems you come full circle anyway.
I mean hell I’ve been fighting an oscillation problem in my amp lately which put my MM PT change on hold and come to find out I figured out it’s relay LAYOUT that was causing it. Nothing to do with the design. Just physical layout. This shit is hard to do at this level PTP but the reward is so worth it.
griff10672
Well-known member
well I guess I couldn't have run into this thread in a better time ....
I'm literally in the process of wiring up a 2204 build .... ( first amp build ever ) .... been sucking up as much info as I can on every aspect of the build .
I've looked at so many 800 layouts ....
for whatever it's worth ..... regarding FourT6and2's original post about the online layouts and methods for the Presence Control .... I came across this ...
the Mojotone layout he posted must be an older one .... they have it ( presence scheme ) matching the schematic now on the current layout on their site .
So ... just for poops and giggles I pulled up the site I grabbed the schematic from .... it seems like " the " schematic to go with ...
this guy has internal shots of the actual 2204 I assume he used for the schematic .
The Presence scheme is wired like that earlier Mojotone layout .
So it makes me wonder if it's a mistake in this guy's trace / schematic drawing since it actually came from the factory wired like that
who's correct as far as a stock build ? Do I roll with the schematic ... or copy what the Factory did ??
maybe the guy / gal wiring up Presence pots that day had to many pints at lunch ?
I'm literally in the process of wiring up a 2204 build .... ( first amp build ever ) .... been sucking up as much info as I can on every aspect of the build .
I've looked at so many 800 layouts ....
for whatever it's worth ..... regarding FourT6and2's original post about the online layouts and methods for the Presence Control .... I came across this ...
the Mojotone layout he posted must be an older one .... they have it ( presence scheme ) matching the schematic now on the current layout on their site .
So ... just for poops and giggles I pulled up the site I grabbed the schematic from .... it seems like " the " schematic to go with ...
this guy has internal shots of the actual 2204 I assume he used for the schematic .
The Presence scheme is wired like that earlier Mojotone layout .
So it makes me wonder if it's a mistake in this guy's trace / schematic drawing since it actually came from the factory wired like that
who's correct as far as a stock build ? Do I roll with the schematic ... or copy what the Factory did ??
maybe the guy / gal wiring up Presence pots that day had to many pints at lunch ?
Attachments
Chubbs
Well-known member
Mine is setup like the factory photo in my 79. I think that’s the same way George has it setup in his instruction manual for his old kits as well. Never noticed that despite looking at that schem a thousand times.
novosibir
Well-known member
When I sometimes read - as in this case - how often and how extensively I used to run free seminars and help to everyone, this additional was 2-3 times more difficult for me than for a native speaking because of the translation into English with my very wimpy German's English at that time - concretely, sometimes I spent up to 6 hours a day only for helping others and my wife often complained at the time that all she saw was my back all day long - and when I recall the gratitude I received for that, I retrospectively classify myself as insane for that phase of my life.
As soon as someone has been helped, in over 90% of the cases they remained silent. They've taken her advantages, so why still waste any more time for saying thank you?
But when it came to criticizing someone or bashing, then suddenly all the dirty and shitty rats came crawling out of their holes to banish their unbearable boredom with their criticism against a found victim, or to feel themselves alive again at all.
I would never again be as stupid and selfless as I was then
Arch Stanton
Dollar Store Satriani
No good deed goes unpunished, Larry.When I sometimes read - as in this case - how often and how extensively I used to run free seminars and help to everyone, this additional was 2-3 times more difficult for me than for a native speaking because of the translation into English with my very wimpy German's English at that time - concretely, sometimes I spent up to 6 hours a day only for helping others and my wife often complained at the time that all she saw was my back all day long - and when I recall the gratitude I received for that, I retrospectively classify myself as insane for that phase of my life.
As soon as someone has been helped, in over 90% of the cases they remained silent. They've taken her advantages, so why still waste any more time for saying thank you?
But when it came to criticizing someone or bashing, then suddenly all the dirty and shitty rats came crawling out of their holes to banish their unbearable boredom with their criticism against a found victim, or to feel themselves alive again at all.
I would never again be as stupid and selfless as I was then
Arch Stanton
Dollar Store Satriani
Speaking of help.. I got that "Snorkler" schematic, no thanks to you.How to translate the term 'helpful' into reality?
helpful = helping fool
glpg80
Well-known member
If all you do is help others for the purpose of expecting gratitude in return, you’re not giving help, your trying to boost your ego. I’ve been on this forum, TGP, countless Facebook groups, all helping unknown numbers of people get their builds off of the ground, for many years. Not once have I said I do it for the reputation. I do it because I have the knowledge to do so.How to translate the term 'helpful' into reality?
helpful = helping fool
The metro forum isn’t RT and RT will never be the metro forum. The whole reason the forum is still alive is because of the library of good information that exists over there that isn’t in textbooks. So whether you want to admit it or not, you do help others, even today. Whether you want to help others ever again is a choice you’ll have to make but know many more people know the secrets of modding amps than 20 years ago.
novosibir
Well-known member
Here in Germany it was already late at night (03:52 am) and I was already very tired when I wrote my post (#49), so to a German with a still not perfect English knowledge it might happen easily, that something is written misunderstandingly.
Now that I have a fresh & rested head, I can specify what I actually wanted to express.
If you write back and forth 10-15 times with a 'help seeker', keep giving him tips or explaining to him more specifically what he apparatendly didn't understand correctly the previous time - he then apparently understood it at some point, but from there you don't hear anything at all, not even a 'well, it works' or something like this - and if this happens in 8-9 out of 10 times, then at some point you loose the motivation to help someone in his shoes at all
There were even cases that other amp builders with well-known names had messaged me discreetly via PM or email. I also passed on my tips, hints and sometimes my secrets to them (no I don't speak about Fortin) - but also here quite the same. After a certain point I hadn't heard from them either - after my hints had seemed to work (?)
And it's clear that today more people know the secrets of amp modding than 20 years ago - after all 20 years ago there were some more light bulbs besides me who publicly shared their secrets in forums, where they can still be read today - and that's a good thing
Arch Stanton
Dollar Store Satriani
Damnit Larry.Here in Germany it was already late at night (03:52 am) and I was already very tired when I wrote my post (#49), so to a German with a still not perfect English knowledge it might happen easily, that something is written misunderstandingly.
Now that I have a fresh & rested head, I can specify what I actually wanted to express.
If you write back and forth 10-15 times with a 'help seeker', keep giving him tips or explaining to him more specifically what he apparatendly didn't understand correctly the previous time - he then apparently understood it at some point, but from there you don't hear anything at all, not even a 'well, it works' or something like this - and if this happens in 8-9 out of 10 times, then at some point you loose the motivation to help someone in his shoes at all
There were even cases that other amp builders with well-known names had messaged me discreetly via PM or email. I also passed on my tips, hints and sometimes my secrets to them - and also here quite the same, after a certain point I hadn't heard from them either - after my hints had seemed to work (?)
And it's clear that today more people know the secrets of amp modding than 20 years ago - after all 20 years ago there were some more light bulbs besides me who publicly shared their secrets in forums, where they can still be read today - and that's a good thing
That whole "amp secrets" shit is over, bro. It's played, homie.. you're living in the past.
The number of people who even care about tube amps is dwindling by the day. All the schematics, and "secrets" are readily available to anyone willing to look for them and fire up a soldering iron.
All the dudes today care about are wearing dresses, and playing modeling amps.
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RedPlated
Well-known member
Good post man. I will say, Matt always says it like it is haha.
I'll follow up by saying that I commonly reference old threads on the Metro forum when perusing the net regarding tech info. And a lot of those threads have great info from Larry. Love or hate his business style, the guy knows a lot about amps and has posted a lot of useful information.
So Larry...despite the fact a particular individual may or may not show gratitude directly to you, know that there are others who benefit from what you share. I don't really get any benefit from answering questions here, either. But this should be a community where we help each other out without those expectations.
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novosibir
Well-known member
As I correctively said, I never expected a 'thank you', but I did expect some form of feedback to know if my effort and time was helpful to the other person. If something like that doesn't happen 8 out of 10 times, the mood to help others is lost and that was the reason why I only posted a little from about 2010/2011
But at least from 2004 to 2010 I left a pool of more than 4500 posts on Metroamp - no questions, only answers
SpiderWars
Well-known member
Me too. Been reading @novosibir posts anywhere I could find them for a very long time. But just as a lurker.
Not that it’s any consolation Larry but at least you have the LarMar MV and the Larry grounding scheme with your name on them. Which is elementary stuff to you but not to most.
psychodave
Well-known member
Not necessarily. As I've been told, removing the DC can change the sound. I cant confirm either way, but I've always left the pots with DC.
novosibir
Well-known member
As it's been on the (scratchy) presence pots of the old Marshall amp, which are more effective than the (not scratchy) presence pots of the newer Marshall amps