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paulyc
Well-known member
Well that escalated quickly ! ?
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
We’re off to the races first thing!
One of our tenant’s changed business names and needs their parking spaces re-painted to reflect the new name. Bucket of paint, stencils and a can of black spray paint is all you need. And apparently common sense.
My assistant calls me and says “I just want to warn you, you might want to check on what’s happening in the garage. Jorge just asked me for a parking garage map because he wasn’t sure what spaces to paint. I told him to use the map we keep sending to his e-mail but he said he lost all of them, so I reminded him that the parking spaces currently say the tenant’s old name and to just paint those. He got confused and he just started saying random words, I couldn’t follow what he was saying but I think he said he already painted them all white without checking the names first and now he doesn’t know if he painted the wrong ones”
That was over an hour ago, I checked the spaces and yep, he painted a bunch of the wrong ones. Now he’s darting all over the property trying to look busy, I think he’s short circuiting over fucking up yet again and instead of taking 2 minutes to just STOP and get his shit together he goes in the opposite direction.
I don’t know how someone can make it age 58 like this.This isn’t a quiet guy who could have slipped through the cracks on account of not being noticed, he’s the total opposite.
One of our tenant’s changed business names and needs their parking spaces re-painted to reflect the new name. Bucket of paint, stencils and a can of black spray paint is all you need. And apparently common sense.
My assistant calls me and says “I just want to warn you, you might want to check on what’s happening in the garage. Jorge just asked me for a parking garage map because he wasn’t sure what spaces to paint. I told him to use the map we keep sending to his e-mail but he said he lost all of them, so I reminded him that the parking spaces currently say the tenant’s old name and to just paint those. He got confused and he just started saying random words, I couldn’t follow what he was saying but I think he said he already painted them all white without checking the names first and now he doesn’t know if he painted the wrong ones”
That was over an hour ago, I checked the spaces and yep, he painted a bunch of the wrong ones. Now he’s darting all over the property trying to look busy, I think he’s short circuiting over fucking up yet again and instead of taking 2 minutes to just STOP and get his shit together he goes in the opposite direction.
I don’t know how someone can make it age 58 like this.This isn’t a quiet guy who could have slipped through the cracks on account of not being noticed, he’s the total opposite.
FokenBusker
Well-known member
Didn't you mention in a past post that he's ultimately laissez faire? Waiting on his rich mother in law to leave him a massive house in Puerto Rico?
Is there some reason you have to keep him to keep that tenant happy? Can you fire him? Leaving bare wires hanging down in a massive building like that is insane. He should not be allowed to work there. His ass is gonna get someone killed, man.
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
Indeed, he’s very nonchalant about pretty much everything.
It’s hard to explain my company to other people, but the short of it is that we have a ‘leave no man behind’* ethic that comes from the top down; if we see someone shows promise and enthusiasm, we’ll develop the hell out of them before we even consider letting them go. It can be very frustrating when it’s on me to develop someone, but it’s also what got me from an entry level maintenance position to my current position (4th from the top of the company) and I respect it. When it works, it makes for an extremely dedicated employee while also empowering them to move onto bigger and better things if they decide to.
Very altruistic, but it works 95% of the time.
I know when I go to my CFO/HR and say “Hey, we need to let this guy go”, she’s going to grill me on everything I did to develop him before letting him go. So while we’re in a right to work/fire state, we never utilize that and just go about documenting everything until the hammer falls for the final time and that’s what I hand off to my CFO so she knows it’s not a situation I simply don’t want to deal with, but have already been dealing with.
*This sounds like some liberal BS, but the owner of my company puts his money where his mouth is. A couple years back it was looking like the majority of Little Haiti in Miami was going to be up for grabs on account of building code not being met all over the place and too many slumlords. We had a meeting where the owner said “I’m thinking of buying as much as I can and bringing the buildings up to code”, then we waited for the next part, the part that would make us money, it just never came. We now own 3/4’s of Little Haiti and our profit is “knowing we played a part in bettering the lives of those less fortunate“
It’s the same reason we have two branches of Child Protective Services, 2 rehab centers, an executive suites for start-up businesses, etc. He looks at the community and says “What can we use here?” then does it. To say it’s been life changing to witness is an understatement, especially growing up as cynical as I did.
FokenBusker
Well-known member
Holy fucking Utopian employer! Companies like that exist?!?!
I totally see where you're coming from with its merit. It's a shame you ended up with somebody who, from what I can tell, lacks the motivation to prove themself to said company. Were it me, he'd be gone, because of the dangers he leaves behind and shrugs off, but I damned well respect any company that'd go that far to improve their community. If more non profit charities actually put their money where their mouths were, the world would be a far better place. That a business would do this is mind blowing.
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RevDrucifer
Well-known member
I really lucked out when I got this job, fortunately, I recognized pretty quickly how lucky I was and I’ve been grateful for it ever since. This company has done shit for me my own family couldn’t even comprehend. I’ve had periods here where I’ve worked every day for months straight, I was on call 24/7 my first 4 years here and it was hellish, but I’m happy to do it. I’ve had a couple offers to interview with other properties and I haven’t even considered them.
I got the guy just doing basic grunt work at this point, light duty painting, organizing storage areas and cleaning drain lines. Unless he starts drinking paint or drain cleaner, I don’t have to worry about him much until he comes in the office and starts annoying the shit out of me.
FokenBusker
Well-known member
Glad to know you got him doing trained pet work, at least he's less likely to neglectfully cause danger. That hanging wire incident is the stuff of nightmares.
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
Hahahaha as shitty of a situation that could have been, I REALLY wish I could have seen his face when it happened and he came to the conclusion he had to call me to tell me he disobeyed my instructions.
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
Well, today I failed as a manager and was unable to keep my cool in a situation I needed to. While I can blame it on having my fuse burnt down too many times, it doesn’t excuse my behavior today.
We recently had our 25-year and 40-year inspections on our buildings, these are for electrical and structural to ensure your buildings are safe (and these are STRICT after that Miami condo incident). We had basic surface rust on all the AC stands and conduits on the roof, nothing some light standing and Rustoleum won’t resolve. I make a work order explaining the scope of work, WHY it’s being done and when it’s to be done (minimum one hour a day and between work orders).
Dipshit goes to Home Depot for supplies, comes back with some brushes and tells me Home Depot has no Rustoleum. I was slammed and while I knew that was bullshit, he showed me he ordered some and it’ll be here in 2 days, whatever. 2 weeks go by and he asks if he can go to HD for more paint, tell him of course and then I find out today, from someone else, the same thing happened and now they can’t do any work until next Weds. So I went to HD.
I’m already livid at this point, so I send him a text just to see if he’s going to tell me the same thing. He did not know I went to HD.
I get back to the property and go right in to see my boss and just show her that text then that picture. The next 15 minutes as we called him into the office…..man, I’m still hot over it and it happened 4 hours ago, I show him the fucking picture and he says “Oh, you found some! Now I can get to work!”
This is still ongoing, but long story short, I fucked up my losing my cool when he was looking both of us dead in the eye and lying to us. At this point, this is more than a fireable offense, IMO. He’s now proven numerous times I cannot trust him, he’s been caught lying, caught stealing time, skipping out on work, alllll the shit I’ve written here, this just broke the back.
But we don’t fire people around the holidays. And unfortunately for me, I’ve seen the people I report to deal with someone they’ve wanted to fire, so it’s not even a “rules for thee not for me” situation, just the principles of the company. Come that first week of January though? Hahahahhaa…..oh I can’t fucking wait.
We recently had our 25-year and 40-year inspections on our buildings, these are for electrical and structural to ensure your buildings are safe (and these are STRICT after that Miami condo incident). We had basic surface rust on all the AC stands and conduits on the roof, nothing some light standing and Rustoleum won’t resolve. I make a work order explaining the scope of work, WHY it’s being done and when it’s to be done (minimum one hour a day and between work orders).
Dipshit goes to Home Depot for supplies, comes back with some brushes and tells me Home Depot has no Rustoleum. I was slammed and while I knew that was bullshit, he showed me he ordered some and it’ll be here in 2 days, whatever. 2 weeks go by and he asks if he can go to HD for more paint, tell him of course and then I find out today, from someone else, the same thing happened and now they can’t do any work until next Weds. So I went to HD.
I’m already livid at this point, so I send him a text just to see if he’s going to tell me the same thing. He did not know I went to HD.
I get back to the property and go right in to see my boss and just show her that text then that picture. The next 15 minutes as we called him into the office…..man, I’m still hot over it and it happened 4 hours ago, I show him the fucking picture and he says “Oh, you found some! Now I can get to work!”
This is still ongoing, but long story short, I fucked up my losing my cool when he was looking both of us dead in the eye and lying to us. At this point, this is more than a fireable offense, IMO. He’s now proven numerous times I cannot trust him, he’s been caught lying, caught stealing time, skipping out on work, alllll the shit I’ve written here, this just broke the back.
But we don’t fire people around the holidays. And unfortunately for me, I’ve seen the people I report to deal with someone they’ve wanted to fire, so it’s not even a “rules for thee not for me” situation, just the principles of the company. Come that first week of January though? Hahahahhaa…..oh I can’t fucking wait.
billsbigego
Well-known member
Yea, reading this, I'd say it's time to go "Wakefield"
FokenBusker
Well-known member
Sounds like you got something real nice coming in 2024
That fucking barnacle can go float in the ocean.
Laputan Machine
Well-known member
Does anyone else notice how being insanely late to meetings/appointments is super common now? Like completely bizarre levels of people not giving 3 fucks for being 5 hours late and what that does to other people?
Am I nuts or does like one out of three people exhibit this behavior now?
Am I nuts or does like one out of three people exhibit this behavior now?
MadAsAHatter
Well-known member
I haven't noticed it to that extreme, but do see a trend in management being 10-15 minutes late for meetings. There's this weird mindset where people think if you're late to meetings it means they're super busy and we all should be grateful that they took time out their busy schedule to show up. All this says is you're inconsiderate and have zero respect for other peoples' time.
My manager brags about working at least an hour or two of overtime 3-4 day's a week. She think it makes it look like she's busy and dedicated. To me it makes her look like she's inept and/or has zero time management skills. In my department there's no reason anyone shouldn't be able to get all their tasks done during normal working hours. She's the only one that "needs" to stay late to finish all her stuff for the day. At least she doesn't try to force that mindset on others.
MadAsAHatter
Well-known member
I can empathize with you on this. I I have a similar mindset of your company, but also can recognize when things just aren't working out. As long as someone is truly trying their best and wanting to get better I'll personally work with them and help them get some footing no matter how long it takes. The key part is they truly have to be trying. If you're pulling that I'm just going to screw it up so I don't have to do it anymore, I'm looking to send you out the door quick.
It's been about 2 years ago but I had a similar person under me. I am a state worker at the state's Enviro Chemistry lab and it almost literally takes an act of congress to fire someone, even if they're still in their probationary period. I didn't really want to hire this person, but we had a shitty candidate pool and she was basically the best of the worst. We were also up against the wall and had to hire someone in this round or risk losing the position all together. Anyway she started off like crap on day one. I tried her on the most straight forward method in my section. We were over 6 months in and she hadn't even been able to get a valid calibration on the instrument. I've had people with no experience get it on their 2nd try. I attempted to work with her but she wasn't having it. Eventually we tried putting her in a different section on the simplest testing method possible, testing pH. You literally fill a cup to the line, put it on the instrument and hit start. Everything is automated, the only thing you have to pay attention to is filling it to the line. Somehow she screwed that up. It took 2 years, and I think it was a 47 page report I wrote on all her screwups to finally let her go on her last day of extended probation. Even then the people above me were like "are we really able to let her go?" I think if I didn't document everything she did in detail I'd still be stuck with her. Needless to say it made my work life extremely frustrating during that time.
Bad Brain
Well-known member
Okay I’m pretty cynical myself, but I think one has to be fairly shrewd to begin with to be able to buy 3/4 of little haiti. I’m guessing there’s profit in there (Maybe longer term) that you're not aware of, while in the meantime you all get to think you work for some kind of mother Teresa. Maybe it’s both altruism and profit, who knows. Maybe it’s in fact pure altruism, and if so don’t mind me!
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
Oh man, that’s been another part of not firing him, we’ll most certainly lose the position if we do. Were you able to find a way for you to work parallel to her during that two years where she was causing the least bit of road bumps for you?
I had a good talk with my boss yesterday, she’s pointed me in the right direction since she’s been here and while she’s not always telling me that’s what she’s doing, I can recognize it now. Part of this is her trying to develop me to handle anything that comes my way and I WANT the education. I had an epiphany last night over this situation when talking to a buddy about it, it fell right out of my mouth, “I’m expecting this guy to step UP when he can’t even step forward, I’m resisting the idea that he’s incapable of doing so and that’s causing me frustration. If I approach it from the idea that I know he’s not going to step up, I won’t be disappointed“
I sat him down this morning and told him I’m going to try things differently because I’m not always right and often have to change the way I do things. This is one of those times. I was very clear with him in that I’m going to establish a baseline of where we can work parallel to each other without him slowing me down and that means he’s going to get the most menial tasks possible. Clean the dumpster cages, tighten toilet seat screws, organize rocks in plant pots, etc.
All the shit that doesn’t get thought about because it’s not a priority but makes the property look detailed and immaculate. He may be JUST the guy to handle ALL that shit while my other guys handle the real work.
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
Of course there’s a long term profit. This same thing took place in Wynwood, Miami years ago and now it’s the art district of Miami and the property value is through the roof. He’s just not going to start kicking people out of their homes next week because we got the apartment up to code and now we can charge more for it.
It’s a “fix it up and sit on it while it accumulates value” and when the time is ”right”, develop or sell. “Right” for him means the least amount of negative impact to the people it’ll affect the most when his profit will be maxed. But he doesn’t entertain the second part without the first part in place.
Hahahha we were in a meeting the other day, we have to replace our secondary chiller at my property and it’s going to be costly, around $500K by the time we’re done (it’s more than just the chiller). He’s putting forth the idea we don’t need a backup, I told him “We‘re going to duke it out over this” because I have to deal with the tenants if the main chiller goes down and 80k sq feet of rented space has no cooling. “I can rent spot coolers for far less than half a million dollars to cool down fully developed companies who also have work from home options while I take the money I’m saving and put proper air conditioning in an apartment housing people who can’t rub two nickels together”
I can’t argue against that. I can from a “Cover MY ass“ standpoint, but not from a principle or business standpoint.
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
Despite all the modern conveniences displaying time most people are late for everything 30 minutes to an hour. I find it disrespectful to the extreme because time is the most limited resource. I only wait 15 minutes then I leave if they can't at least call this way I don't torture myself over it. I won't gig with guys that can't show up on time, so there is that.
MadAsAHatter
Well-known member
I just finished typing and realized I wrote half a novel LOL.
The TL;DR take-aways are:
1 - Be prepared for this guy to not even do the menial tasks you assign him correctly.
2 - Sometimes no matter how much effort you put towards finding a place for someone and helping them to succeed it's not your fault they fail. Sometimes fault solely lies with them because they didn't want to put forth any effort.
I pretty much tried everything with her including giving her the more menial tasks. He problem really wasn't so much no being capable of doing the work, she didn't WANT to learn how or really do it in the first place.
I started her off like I would any new person. I spent about 2 weeks giving her training and an overview of all the policies, procedures, techniques, etc. that are common to all parts of the lab. In that time I could see she was going to be a challenge. Most people coming in with prior experience can breeze though the initial training in about a week. I'm not having to teach them from the ground up, just going over the general items specific to our lab. She had some lab experience already. I actually spent the entire 2 weeks and more time per day with her than I have with others. Basically like I would be teaching someone who was 100% green. She barely paid attention to anything I was showing her and was very dismissive when I tried to give her some pointers while watching her do things. I did what I could then passed her to the analyst that would be training her on the specific methods/instruments she'd be running. I was thinking maybe I just didn't connect with her well enough and hopefully she'd connect more with the people she'd be working with.
I assigned her to a method that would be at the lowest end of medium complexity. Happenstance it was the method I was already going to assign to her anyway. It was pretty much the same thing; didn't pay attention and zero attempt to actually learn anything. The most she did was go through the motions. And I know it wasn't the person training her not doing a good job, the trainer had successfully trained several others prior on more complicated methods.
Method training involves successfully running an instrument calibration curve, running a couple different types of QC samples as demonstration of capabilities. Most people can finish their training and start running live samples in about a month tops. We're 3 months in and she hasn't even been able to successfully run a calibration curve. And I'm not talking about just barely missing the mark. Her calibration points were all over the map. I sat with her multiple times watching her technique and giving her advice. And again she wouldn't have any of it. Perfect example. I was watching her pour up solution to volume. Proper technique is to have your fill line at eye level so you don't have any parallax error. Hell, this is something you do in the kitchen when measuring making box mac 'n cheese. She would pour down by her waist and call it good. I said, it's more accurate to pour at eye level. She poured by her waist several more times. I stopped and showed her. Again she kept doing the same thing. I advised her again at which point she got all sarcastic with me going "see, see, see, I'm pouring at eye level" making a big spectacle out of it.
At that point it was pretty clear she just didn't want to learn or do anything right. I moved her to the simplest method possible in my section. And it was more of the same thing. We're past the 6 month mark now. I couldn't just have her doing the menial, lab equivalent of taking out the trash tasks. My section is already short staffed when all positions are filled. So she was putting greater strain and burden on the rest of my group.
I talked to my manager that she just wasn't working out. My manager didn't want to let her go yet and I was still open to finding a place for her to fit; even though it was still going to be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. So I worked it out with another supervisor to trade people. The guy coming to my section was fine with it when we asked so we weren't pushing anyone where they didn't want to be. The person I got did fine and finished method specific training in an expected time frame. She on the other hand continued the same MO in area she was moved to. The other supervisor tried her on several methods finally landing on the pH method I mentioned in my previous post. She did eventually get past the training and started doing samples. During an internal audit we found out she had been doing the samples incorrectly the majority of the time.
With the pH method, you pour 50 mL of sample, put it on the instrument, and hit start. It's not a highly accurate method so you don't have to be exact with your measurement. Anything between 45-55 mL is good enough. Well she was basically pouring up whatever made it into the sample cup. Could have been 20 mL or all the way to the rim. Because of her we had to go back to the client and tell them that the last several months of results were void. They had to resample everything. Keep in mind we're testing drinking water. Bad results means peoples' drinking water gets fucked up and can be a health hazard.
Even with that civil service (and lab leadership) was hesitant to fire her. We're at the year mark now. I was able to extend her probation for another year, but she was sent back to my section. It put a burden back on my group, but the only thing I could do was put her on grunt work. In a lab this is washing glassware and disposing of samples after testing. Same thing as it's always was. I showed her what to do and she wasn't having any of it. She didn't clean any glassware properly and everyone had to clean their stuff behind her to not contaminate their testing. She wasn't disposing of samples properly either, to the point the lab could be fined for it.
We're not at 1-1/2 years and I'm still stuck with her. I had a long talk with my manager about what to do. I explained that at this point I have to hold her to the same standards that I do with everyone else. She's been here this long and there's no reason she should not be able to do the same work as everyone else. After some convincing my manager agreed. Even though I knew full well what would happen, as a last ditch effort I set her up to either succeed or fail on her own doing. If she finally put forth effort she would be fine, if not she'd fall flat on her face to the point there was no other option than to let her go.
I had been documenting everything that had happened with her since day one and in the end she fell flat, just as expected. As mentioned it was close to a 50 page report. I went to my manager, leadership and civil service an presented everything I had to them. Laid out everything she had failed at, all the times she put forth no effort, and explained how if this kept up she very well could be the sole reason the lab (and by proxy the state) could face severe fines and lose lab certification. I presented all that about 2 months prior to her extended probation ending. With the state, after being on probation for 2 years they either have to make you permanent or let you go. Literally, on the last day of her probation they finally decided maybe it would be best to fire her.
Given enough time and training I do believe most people can eventually get it. I'm more than willing to work with them as long as it takes. The key thing is that they need to be putting forth the effort and really trying to learn. As bad as she was and as much as I was ready to get read of her earlier on, I truly tried to help her, giver her all the tools she needed to succeed and find a place in the lab where she would fit. Sometimes no matter how hard you try or how much put towards helping someone succeed it's not your fault. Sometimes fault falls on the other person.
thegame
Well-known member
How to effectively fire someone who isn't working out:
1) douse them with kerosene
2) throw a match their way
3) then to add insult to injury, in your best Vince MacMahon impersonation state boldly, "YOU'RE FIRED!"
1) douse them with kerosene
2) throw a match their way
3) then to add insult to injury, in your best Vince MacMahon impersonation state boldly, "YOU'RE FIRED!"