12 gauge speaker wire Louder?

Smashedguitaris⸸

Smashedguitaris⸸

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I rewired my cab today with 12 awg. I didn't test how high I could go, but i got to 115 decibels and my power section wasn't over saturating me, and usually that is at around 110 that the power section gets involved, which is the only complaint i had about this amp at all. As far as if it sounds better or not, that would have to be if i left same exact eq, and that would be really hard to determine, but it is louder. I wired series-parrallel and checked for phase when all wired and with all 8 ohms came to about 7.3 ohms, so everything checked out well.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/the-best-speaker-cable/ used the wire out of this article, because it is a midgrade speaker wire.
After ordering the wire, I read that soldano used 12 gauge in his cabs, then I found out that bogner uses 10 gauge...That made me feel like a real loser for not using 6 gauge to beat them all.
 

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As far as I know, the OT of a tube amp puts out current, not voltage, so the speaker wire AWG shouldn’t matter.
 
I'd liie you to test that theory, open the back of your 412 and run a Superlead at volume and touch the bare speaker terminal and ground at the same time and tell us there's no voltage...oh yeah and please for the love of God film it so we can see in real time the answer...there's no current w/o voltage friend.
 
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LP Freak said:
You need a blow torch to remove that 10g wire in Bogner cabinets
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Ya when I changed the speakers in my Bogner cab I replaced the speaker wire. Way to hard to solder. At least with my soldering iron. Maybe would be easier with a soldering gun
 
I've always used 14g oxygen free copper speaker wire with good results. I would love to see some science on what the difference could be. To me, the heavier speaker wire would just allow the current to the speakers more efficiently, and reduce wear on the amp. It's kinda like having properly inflated tires will give you better gas mileage, but does it improve handling? Heavy gauge speaker wire will prolong the life of your tubes, but does it really sound better.

Oh, and by the way: the NY Times article is an ad. There is no science. There is no other brands. That speaker wire paid to have that speaker wire article written.
 
8len8 said:
As far as I know, the OT of a tube amp puts out current, not voltage, so the speaker wire AWG shouldn’t matter.
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The output of an tube amp does put out AC voltage, typically very low but depends on the wattage. Current is actually the main factor in determining wire size besides voltage drop and other current carrying conductors. Current is what causes heat in the conductor if undersized and can have a negative effect on audio signals. Also, it's the current that kills people, you have to have voltage present to flow current.
 
Thicker wire has less resistance so there will be less loss and the amp will not clip as early. Due to the high output impedance of a tube amp this will be most noticeable in the midrange.

However I doubt the difference between even 18 gauge and 12 gauge for the short lengths in a speaker cabinet is enough to account for 5 dB. If we assume four feet of wire in the cab 18 awg would only have an additional 0.02 ohms of resistance which is virtually negligible especially considering a typical OT has an effective DCR of about an ohm and the speaker DCR is around 7 ohms so the additional resistance is 0.25%. That's simply not enough to cause a 5 dB increase.

My guess is that the old wire was oxidized or the solder joints were poor or there was some other defect in the wiring.
 
cliffc8488 said:
Thicker wire has less resistance so there will be less loss and the amp will not clip as early. Due to the high output impedance of a tube amp this will be most noticeable in the midrange.

However I doubt the difference between even 18 gauge and 12 gauge for the short lengths in a speaker cabinet is enough to account for 5 dB. If we assume four feet of wire in the cab 18 awg would only have an additional 0.02 ohms of resistance which is virtually negligible especially considering a typical OT has an effective DCR of about an ohm and the speaker DCR is around 7 ohms so the additional resistance is 0.25%. That's simply not enough to cause a 5 dB increase.

My guess is that the old wire was oxidized or the solder joints were poor or there was some other defect in the wiring.
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I do know there is a capacitance change when wires are loosely twisted vs being tightly twisted. I wish I have kept my reference, but it was really interesting. If I remember correctly, they were looking at a Marshall 4x12 and someone hand twisted the wiring loosely versus using a drill and make crazy tight twists.
 
psychodave said:
I do know there is a capacitance change when wires are loosely twisted vs being tightly twisted. I wish I have kept my reference, but it was really interesting. If I remember correctly, they were looking at a Marshall 4x12 and someone hand twisted the wiring loosely versus using a drill and make crazy tight twists.
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Try coax ;)
 
cliffc8488 said:
Thicker wire has less resistance so there will be less loss and the amp will not clip as early. Due to the high output impedance of a tube amp this will be most noticeable in the midrange.

However I doubt the difference between even 18 gauge and 12 gauge for the short lengths in a speaker cabinet is enough to account for 5 dB. If we assume four feet of wire in the cab 18 awg would only have an additional 0.02 ohms of resistance which is virtually negligible especially considering a typical OT has an effective DCR of about an ohm and the speaker DCR is around 7 ohms so the additional resistance is 0.25%. That's simply not enough to cause a 5 dB increase.

My guess is that the old wire was oxidized or the solder joints were poor or there was some other defect in the wiring.
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That is interesting. if the resistance is less that causes the output transformer to not fight as much, that may explain the difference in dbs of "clean" power section. It is not something I would have ever have thought about. I know most people are wanting to go the other way and get power saturation at lower volumes, so maybe the higher gauges (thanks @ZEEGLER) would be ideal for them. But I want 115 decibels of barely saturated power section because that is what i am used to with most amps when the volume is at noonish. With this amp, it is 115 dbs at 930-10
 
I feel like I am on a hifi forum.

- to make things simple, there is old Ohm's law for voltage and currents. No current without voltage. I=V/R. Power, P=V*I. Thus P=V*V/R, V=sqrt(P*R).
For 100 Watt amp and 16 Ohm load, V=sqrt(100*16)=40 Volts, I=40/16=2,5 Amperes. 40 Volts can hurt already.
For 100 Watt amp and 8 Ohm load, V=sqrt(100*8)=28,3 Volts, I=28,3/8=3,5 Amperes.

- capacitance of speaker wires is not important, it's small. Twisting of wires is unnecessary, but it is the configuration, which emits less of interference to nearby area (good for combos) and the wiring looks nicer. Cables in parallel are absolutely sufficient for external box. However, splitting the cable pair and even leading the wires around a big box creates unnecessary inductance, which even emits interference to surroundings. So I would recommend to keep cable pairs as much together as possible and not create big closed loops.

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Whenever I’ve grabbed some copper lamp cord at the hardware store, and re wired my JCM 800 cabs soldered instead of the thin wire spade connectors the tone has always improved. Every time without fail. More clarity to my ears. I’ve not done that to any older 70s cabs though. Also, getting rid of that cheap stereo plug in a 900 cab and wiring mono also improved tone.
 
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