2004 SLO w/Deyoung Transformers versus New Bad SLO vid.

[scottosan]

Interesting question: 2 transformers wound to similar spec by the same company on different days by different persons may sound a little different, too? Now we get into production territory...

How many amps have you built?

2 transformers made using the same material a wind process should have negligible sound difference.

Do you think (2) 15k pickups from 2 makers sound the same? Similar to pickups, output transformer operate under the same inductive principles as pickups except the transformer is 2 or inductors used to change the impedance. The core material, wire tension and coil pattern affects the frequency characteristics. The difference in frequency response is measurable.

 

[RedPlated]

How many amps have you built?

2 transformers made using the same material a wind process should have negligible sound difference.

Do you think (2) 15k pickups from 2 makers sound the same? Similar to pickups, output transformer operate under the same inductive principles as pickups except the transformer is 2 or inductors used to change the impedance. The core material, wire tension and coil pattern affects the frequency characteristics. The difference in frequency response is measurable.

I agree with this. I use Heyboers and literally order 35 sets at a time. They are very consistent sounding from amp to amp on new builds. I don't notice any character change between sets.

Different manufacturer transformers, however, can have significant affects on tone. I mean night and day. Throw a Mercury OT in a recto. Doesn't even sound like the same amp anymore.

 

[FourT6and2]

I agree with this. I use Heyboers and literally order 35 sets at a time. They are very consistent sounding from amp to amp on new builds. I don't notice any character change between sets.

Different manufacturer transformers, however, can have significant affects on tone. I mean night and day. Throw a Mercury OT in a recto. Doesn't even sound like the same amp anymore.

While I agree with this, here's an interesting anecdote:

A buddy of mine who tours regularly had the OT in his main amp go out recently. A few days before his next show. As a temporary band-aid fix, he had it replaced with some random project OT his tech had laying around. Just to get him through the show until an OEM replacement arrived. He said, while there was a subtle difference, once he was one stage with the band, playing to a full house... he didn't really notice at all.

I've seen them live before and I was there for this particular show as well and I couldn't hear a bit of difference as a member of the audience.

We love nitpicking all these subtleties. And as someone who also builds/mods amps, I do it to and I understand the desire. But sometimes it's healthy to step back and admit all these "night and day" differences aren't actually that drastic unless you're scrutinizing the gear under a microscope.

 

[RedPlated]

While I agree with this, here's an interesting anecdote:

A buddy of mine who tours regularly had the OT in his main amp go out recently. A few days before his next show. As a temporary band-aid fix, he had it replaced with some random project OT his tech had laying around. Just to get him through the show until an OEM replacement arrived. He said, while there was a subtle difference, once he was one stage with the band, playing to a full house... he didn't really notice at all.

I've seen them live before and I was there for this particular show as well and I couldn't hear a bit of difference as a member of the audience.

We love nitpicking all these subtleties. And as someone who also builds/mods amps, I do it to and I understand the desire. But sometimes it's healthy to step back and admit all these "night and day" differences aren't actually that drastic.

A Mercury OT swap is though. It’s a major sound and feel difference.

They are designed for this purpose. To make a stock recto sound “better.” It’s different, that’s for sure. But “better” is subjective.

 

[FourT6and2]

A Mercury OT swap is though. It’s a major sound and feel difference.

They are designed for this purpose. To make a stock recto sound “better.” It’s different, that’s for sure. But “better” is subjective.

The OT in my buddy's amp was a Mercury unit meant for Marshalls. Not sure which one. The original blown OT was a Partridge. Anyway... there really wasn't much of a difference.

 

[Rackman]

The effects are quite small when you consider dialing the EQ to compensate.

 

[Lightning]

Real simple if you own an original Soldano SLO 100 enjoy the amp if you own a BAD Soldano SLO 100 enjoy the amp, The Soldano SLO 100 is a legendary amp it’s a well build/sounding tone machine

 

[RedPlated]

The OT in my buddy's amp was a Mercury unit meant for Marshalls. Not sure which one. The original blown OT was a Partridge. Anyway... there really wasn't much of a difference.

I could see that. Mercury does have a line of "Tone Clone" OT's that are supposed to emulate the sound of the vintage Marshall OT.

 

[DanTravis62]

They both sound great to me

Any issues I had with the taper of the pots or difference in transformers would be allayed by the BAD having an effects loop that wasn't shit

They both sound fantastic IMO though

 

[scottosan]

While I agree with this, here's an interesting anecdote:

A buddy of mine who tours regularly had the OT in his main amp go out recently. A few days before his next show. As a temporary band-aid fix, he had it replaced with some random project OT his tech had laying around. Just to get him through the show until an OEM replacement arrived. He said, while there was a subtle difference, once he was one stage with the band, playing to a full house... he didn't really notice at all.

I've seen them live before and I was there for this particular show as well and I couldn't hear a bit of difference as a member of the audience.

We love nitpicking all these subtleties. And as someone who also builds/mods amps, I do it to and I understand the desire. But sometimes it's healthy to step back and admit all these "night and day" differences aren't actually that drastic unless you're scrutinizing the gear under a microscope.

In a mix, the nuance gets lost. I'm more pragmatic and challenge that more hobbyists consume gear than professionals, so there's 2 trains of thought here and both are valid. For gigging and at gigging volume, not only do you have the mix to contend with, but at some point, the higher to volume, the more the power tubes impose their tonal characteristics. In real life, I know 10-20 home players to every gigging musician.

 

[rstites]

True on the mix. Lots (most?!) of the tonal nuance people go on about on forums tends to go away when you mix the whole band in. Plus, most good sounding amps in the mix are a bit shrill and piercing when they're on their own, and the nice full-sounding amps in isolation tend to either disappear in the mix or loose most of those tonal characteristics.

However, it's also true that you can capture more of that nuance in the studio since you have the stereo field to work with. Live with a full band and studio with a full band have about as much separation as either does from a home player.

As to amps, I always found that as long as it's decent, I sound like myself. Give me a good Marshall, Mesa, Soldano, etc. it'll work just fine. Some better than others for certain, but none of them sound like a completely different instrument or anything.....

 

[rstites]

They both sound great to me

Any issues I had with the taper of the pots or difference in transformers would be allayed by the BAD having an effects loop that wasn't shit

They both sound fantastic IMO though

If I were buying one now, I'd probably go for the new BAD ones. They seem fine. Since I still own my '93, I'll keep pumping up the DeYoung transformers and making fun of people for now knowing who to set up the amp for quality effects! l

 

[iff]

Whichever schematic you're reading is not correct. I've modded a ton of BAD SLO's and none have had these values you're referencing.

First coupling cap is .02

There is a 1000pf cap on the gain pot. It's on the board, not on the actual pot. The amp would be gutless without it.

The cap inline with the depth pot is .1uf. Not 1uf.

I've been over these areas of the circuit in detail when designing the mod. Actually just last week I was doing testing with the .1uf cap in and out of circuit with the NFB/ Depth circuit.

You don't need to lift the board to see traces. Just use a multi meter set to continuity to see where the components connect.

Aaand that's what I get for trusting it Appreciate the correction!

 

[RedPlated]

Aaand that's what I get for trusting it Appreciate the correction!

Would you happen to have a link to the schematic? I haven't seen one for the BAD version. Would be interesting to see what it looks like.

 

[iff]

Would you happen to have a link to the schematic? I haven't seen one for the BAD version. Would be interesting to see what it looks like.

DMed you

 

[Dave L]

Someone said based on the Soldano logs there's only like a double handful of them? Far fewer than X88s (or X99s). I guess lots of people bought the preamps to run with 2100s or 2150s and never bought the power amp.

Yeah, Soldano said there wasn´t much point in building the SM100 when the 2150 is available.

 

[ms17a]

How many amps have you built?

2 transformers made using the same material a wind process should have negligible sound difference.

Do you think (2) 15k pickups from 2 makers sound the same? Similar to pickups, output transformer operate under the same inductive principles as pickups except the transformer is 2 or inductors used to change the impedance. The core material, wire tension and coil pattern affects the frequency characteristics. The difference in frequency response is measurable.

I get the feeling that you're trying to show me up here with your question. But maybe I'm just imagining it.

The question was rhetorical, because I know from experience that most of the time only very small differences exist. It depends on how carefully these pickups are wound. But as for your question: I measure my pickups and pickup circuits using this pickup measurement device engineered by John Colbourne.

It can also measure the frequency response of the pickup with or without the passive electrical network of the guitar. the Frequency response looks like this and can be exported to a computer.

So, I know what I am talking about.
Have a nice day from the "bad" engineer that "no one would hire"...

 

[Eazy-ESP]

@novosibir what is your opinion on all this?

 

[Anje]

I get the feeling that you're trying to show me up here with your question. But maybe I'm just imagining it.

The question was rhetorical, because I know from experience that most of the time only very small differences exist. It depends on how carefully these pickups are wound. But as for your question: I measure my pickups and pickup circuits using this pickup measurement device engineered by John Colbourne.

View attachment 448086

It can also measure the frequency response of the pickup with or without the passive electrical network of the guitar. the Frequency response looks like this and can be exported to a computer.

View attachment 448087

So, I know what I am talking about.
Have a nice day from the "bad" engineer that "no one would hire"...

Real candid question, I'm curious: what do you make of those measurements / what do you use those for?

 

[ms17a]

Real candid question, I'm curious: what do you make of those measurements / what do you use those for?

1. I want to make the things I hear objectively verifiable - that is, I want to be able to measure and understand them. In this regard, I am, for instance, completely aligned with the approach taken by the YouTube channel *the other john browne*.

2. To date, I have equipped all my basses and guitars with my own custom circuit variations; thanks to this measurement device, I am now able to design or modify passive networks with much greater precision (and effiency).

3. I own three different guitars that, for example, yield exactly the same measurement results for the bridge pickup (which is, naturally, the same model), but including the associated passive circuitry. Nevertheless, they sound different; this allows me to focus on the mechanical differences between the guitars and, where applicable, explore potential mechanical modifications.

Fundamentally, my goal is to understand what I hear. It is, quite simply, a form of "nerdiness" pursued as an end in itself. For me, that is fun...