Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
For sure .
panhead
Well-known member
I got a 66 Marshall super 100 PA amp that does 512 with the tubes in.
RedPlated
Well-known member
That's legit PV!
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
I forget where I read it but with the tubes out, it's at least telling you what the PT is rated for. So, If I were to buy a Merren laydown PT to replace the stand up Dagnall in my 72, Chris told me it's at 520v.....is his number then measured with tubes in or out?
Greazygeo
Well-known member
My 69 Metalface 1959 is 517…It has to be variac‘d down to get it under 500.
RedPlated
Well-known member
Yeah I know they are out there over 500v. It’s just not very common, from my experience. Especially in the 70’s/ 80’s amps. But the amount of Marshalls I’ve had isn’t close to what’s actually out there so who knows.
Greazygeo
Well-known member
Yeah this one is the only one I have had this high….all the other 68-74’s Ive had were 470-490 range. Mid to late 70’s were all much lower.
SpiderWars
Well-known member
It's usually stated "at idle". It's not nearly as useful to have the unloaded voltage. When most people state the HT voltage it should be "at idle"...which implies proper bias too. The plate voltage is obv understood to be at idle and will be a little less than HT voltage due to the voltage drop across the OT primaries. That plate voltage is what you would use to calculate the bias setting for fixed bias amps (it's actually plate voltage minus cathode voltage but in fixed bias the cathode is grounded so its 0v).
My '69 Superlead build used a laydown SuperBass PT from Mercury that idles at about 515-520vdc when plugged into 123-124vac wall voltage at my house. I always run that amp variac'd down to ~90vac so I'm not that worried about tube failure. It did arc a tube and blow a fuse while cranked at 515vdc once. But the tube survived and still works, just replaced the fuse.
TheToneDig
Active member
People pull two tubes from a 100W because they hear that it makes it quieter. They are often disappointed by the fact it's still as loud as a fire engine siren and only -3dB.
50W has been the go-to amps for 40 years for the studio. The happy medium. On a track, you will rarely tell the difference in a mix except where absolutely necessary for a 100W to cover whatever frequencies you want that aren't in the 50W. IMO, some new 20W and 30W like Marshall Studios, Mesa Boogie Mk25, Friendman 30s, and Soldano 30 can do it also for the most part. Rectifiers, Diezels, Peaveys you will probably still want the 100Ws or 50s.
100W amps are already 99W too loud for any small room so if you want PT distortion then you are obviously in for an attenuator, power staging or an isolation cab.
At the end of the day when it comes to dialing in, cranking all 10s almost is sure to get you mud on Marshalls so you will dial back to something that sounds like tone. I myself find in a mix that the amp settings can often look like this -> Bass 0, Mids 7, highs 6.5 and that is what beats the drummer/bass player, not necessarily more volume. Aim for the frequencies you are competing with less. The guitar is a mid-range instrument.
Playing at home is like -> Bass 7, Mids 2, highs 8. Sounds great. Unusable in a band context with heavy riffs.
Anyway, I EQ all my amps and rarely ever use direct alone except for the EVH 5150III. I have never really found myself in a situation where I wasn't doing something with the response curve. However, I tend to not dial-up much on my pedals including EQ. Just bare touches to the levels because IMO, the cabinet/speaker, and microphone location are 75% the end tone. If someone said to me they want their amp to sound different, I don't think about pedals. I think EQ, speaker, and microphone will probably give them all the amps they could want until they find themselves trying to get blood from a stone. Then maybe it's time for a new amp. That's just me though. Some people may have different experiences.
I personally enjoy how the same 4x12 speaker configuration in different cabs sounds different, despite the same speakers being used. It goes to show how resonance has an impact on tone, which I suppose should be evident from the differences between open and closed back cabs.
50W has been the go-to amps for 40 years for the studio. The happy medium. On a track, you will rarely tell the difference in a mix except where absolutely necessary for a 100W to cover whatever frequencies you want that aren't in the 50W. IMO, some new 20W and 30W like Marshall Studios, Mesa Boogie Mk25, Friendman 30s, and Soldano 30 can do it also for the most part. Rectifiers, Diezels, Peaveys you will probably still want the 100Ws or 50s.
100W amps are already 99W too loud for any small room so if you want PT distortion then you are obviously in for an attenuator, power staging or an isolation cab.
At the end of the day when it comes to dialing in, cranking all 10s almost is sure to get you mud on Marshalls so you will dial back to something that sounds like tone. I myself find in a mix that the amp settings can often look like this -> Bass 0, Mids 7, highs 6.5 and that is what beats the drummer/bass player, not necessarily more volume. Aim for the frequencies you are competing with less. The guitar is a mid-range instrument.
Playing at home is like -> Bass 7, Mids 2, highs 8. Sounds great. Unusable in a band context with heavy riffs.
Anyway, I EQ all my amps and rarely ever use direct alone except for the EVH 5150III. I have never really found myself in a situation where I wasn't doing something with the response curve. However, I tend to not dial-up much on my pedals including EQ. Just bare touches to the levels because IMO, the cabinet/speaker, and microphone location are 75% the end tone. If someone said to me they want their amp to sound different, I don't think about pedals. I think EQ, speaker, and microphone will probably give them all the amps they could want until they find themselves trying to get blood from a stone. Then maybe it's time for a new amp. That's just me though. Some people may have different experiences.
I personally enjoy how the same 4x12 speaker configuration in different cabs sounds different, despite the same speakers being used. It goes to show how resonance has an impact on tone, which I suppose should be evident from the differences between open and closed back cabs.
Smash
Hack
I fucking Love this guy. I wish you would change your avatar to a fire engine. @VESmedic @DanTravis62 It's fucking christmas come early
". On a track, you will rarely tell the difference in a mix except where absolutely necessary for a 100W to cover whatever frequencies you want that aren't in the 50W." Well it appears we have some frequencies that are in the bigger amps that don't make it to lower amps, afterall...Hmm. Hope this edit made it's way into the book.
"The guitar is a mid-range instrument." This right here is priceless information. All of us that are midscooping....tut tut. That's why we are all lost in the mix. I am curious, though. Everyone ('Wise experienced Non metal guys') talks about getting lost in a mix midscooping. But can you scoop the mids enough on a Marshall or Wizard to ever get lost in the mix? lmao
"100W amps are already 99W too loud for any small room so if you want PT distortion then you are obviously in for an attenuator, power staging or an isolation cab." I know it is complicated to understand, but we consistently try to explain to you that we are not cranking on 10. We play metal. We don't play mush..Why don't you find a forum of rock players, not metal players? Maybe then you would fit in a bit better, and not look like such a dumb bitch. Jesus. You are as Thick headed as a Mule and as Dumb as one, too
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R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
Yes, I understand checking the voltage with the tubes is necessary with my biasing. But, long ago I decided to simply experiment in my Marshalls with a bias at 30ma per tubes and then play, increase bias a touch to 32 and play, rinse/repeat until I feel it sounds best, stopping short of 40ma per tube. So I don't calculate anymore..every time I did I ended up somewhere in that range anyway.
I also read where some guys feel the higher voltage PTs are the reason/key to their favorite amps aggressive nature...so I decided to check the voltage without the tubes in to see exactly what the PT is doing voltage-wise..ie no load on it at all. So that's why I've been doing it; simply to see the numbers and each time the voltage was around 500 with all my favorite amps...so to me that's a big part of why I enjoy my favorite amps. I've also measured other Marshalls that weren't that aggressive and true to form, they were in the low 400s without a load. I had one 78 2204 that measured around 360...very saggy, warm tone but far different than what I liked about a Marshall, at least for me.
TheToneDig
Active member
AC/DC have an amp tech who biases their Marshall live while playing before the performance and Young calls it out based on how it sounds not on any number.
cardinal
Well-known member
I had a '69 plexi panel 1959 that was high 400s, I think around 470.
I've had two '79 2204s, both had around 360V I think.
I recently had a '82 2204 for a bit. Didn't measure the plate voltage. It had more bass than I was used to. More aggressive too, I think. I guess I'm used to my '79 and I couldn't get the '82 to do what I wanted.
I've had two '79 2204s, both had around 360V I think.
I recently had a '82 2204 for a bit. Didn't measure the plate voltage. It had more bass than I was used to. More aggressive too, I think. I guess I'm used to my '79 and I couldn't get the '82 to do what I wanted.
Smash
Hack
All this plate voltage talk is interesting, though over my head. Another thread is discussing different negative feedbacks that might also be giving you the difference in those 2204s maybe..
TheToneDig
Active member
Calling on other users for self validation is a weak effort which is why you are pretty much a candidate for the ignore bin. It just seems like an excuse to flame others.
I didn't have to edit anything because you can never quote any of the strawman arguments you conjure up. It all seems geared towards just wanting to hate on someone.
I never said anything about what your settings are. You can do what you want.
Well, this is going to be an easy ignore. If people find the need to use ad hominems and strawman to have an emotional meltdown over guitar music, that's on you, but you won't be doing it on my screen. Have at it with bells and whistles on. A guy writes a book about guitar amp recording and some people can't seem to control themselves, lol. I am pretty much-ignoring people who confuse MMA with guitar rigs. It's strange how many book haters there are out there without even bothering to read what they are commenting on. Amazing how upset they get also. I don't know about them but hating over TCP/IP protocols with someone you never met is deranged. All because they post on a forum and don't agree with everything you say.
Find someone else to antagonize. I have all the patience in the world here. Not going anywhere. So deal with it.
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Samhain
Banned
Well-known member
The amp tech on that tour was Trace from Voodoo Amps.
The guitar tech was embellishing the story how they're biased for the camera. Not factual.
Although i wouldn't doubt Trace is dumb enough to "bias by ear".
glpg80
Well-known member
Calling on other users for self validation is a weak effort which is why you are pretty much a candidate for the ignore bin. It just seems like an excuse to flame others.
I didn't have to edit anything because you can never quote any of the strawman arguments you conjure up. It all seems geared towards just wanting to hate on someone.
I never said anything about what your settings are. You can do what you want.
Well, this is going to be an easy ignore. If people find the need to use ad hominems and strawman to have an emotional meltdown over guitar music, that's on you, but you won't be doing it on my screen. Have at it with bells and whistles on. A guy writes a book about guitar amp recording and some people can't seem to control themselves, lol. I am pretty much-ignoring people who confuse MMA with guitar rigs. It's strange how many book haters there are out there without even bothering to read what they are commenting on. Amazing how upset they get also. I don't know about them but hating over TCP/IP protocols with someone you never met is deranged. All because they post on a forum and don't agree with everything you say.
The problem with you is that you don’t conversate. You think you’re some knowledge source that doesn’t listen but only talks. Annoyingly.
None of us agree with what you’re saying and some of the people you’re ignoring know more about amplifiers than you’ll ever fucking know and that’s a fact. I have five engineering degrees and eat sleep and breathe it in my career. You can bet there’s topics now ignored that if you searched, you’d actually learn something. You’re not the first person to come to this forum acting like a know it all that doesn’t know shit, and you won’t be the last. Just know you too will be ignored by all, it’s only a matter of time.
Smash
Hack
patience, my dipshit friend, unless you are a doctor and then patientsCalling on other users for self validation is a weak effort which is why you are pretty much a candidate for the ignore bin. It just seems like an excuse to flame others.
I didn't have to edit anything because you can never quote any of the strawman arguments you conjure up. It all seems geared towards just wanting to hate on someone.
I never said anything about what your settings are. You can do what you want.
Well, this is going to be an easy ignore. If people find the need to use ad hominems and strawman to have an emotional meltdown over guitar music, that's on you, but you won't be doing it on my screen. Have at it with bells and whistles on. A guy writes a book about guitar amp recording and some people can't seem to control themselves, lol. I am pretty much-ignoring people who confuse MMA with guitar rigs. It's strange how many book haters there are out there without even bothering to read what they are commenting on. Amazing how upset they get also. I don't know about them but hating over TCP/IP protocols with someone you never met is deranged. All because they post on a forum and don't agree with everything you say.
Smash
Hack
I must say, I feel honored that we have someone on Rig-talk with such vast experience and knowledge. An author no less. Jesus. We could learn so much from this guy. And my arguing with him has caused him to ignore me..I just feel like I am going to lose out on so much education. It is a real goddamned shame. I even changed my avatar to a firetruck so that I could have as much tone as him..
TheToneDig
Active member
How do you know this? Do you have a source? That is basically my source. Obviously, you don't like the guy or have issues with him. Yet AC/DC didn't. So what gives?