6505 sounds to bright and fizzy.. need help

[nagnuggets]

okay well i own a peavey 6505 and a peavey ultra plus both are heads and i have a 4x12 cab with 2 swamp thangs and 2 texas heat in a X pattern.. okay my 6505 sounds really bright and thin.. and my ultra plus sounds the opposite, which i like.. but shouldnt my 6505 sound better??? 6505 is very bright, frizzy, thin sound.. lots of mids and more highs some out in this amp.. i want to like this amp but im having trouble getting it dialed in to my liking.. i want it to sound not as bright and fuller/thicker more bottom end.. my ultra plus i love the only thing it doesnt have the gain my 6505 sounds.. what are some thigs i can do to get the brightness to go away?? is there any cheap tricks??? since i like my ultra plus more should i sell the 6505, and try and get more gain out of that amp??? how could i get my ultra plus to have more gain like ther 6505.. any advice would be awesome on how to solve the brightness in my6505, and to get more gain in the ultra plus.. thanks

 

[glpg80]

6505's were not designed or intended for bedroom playing, just putting this out there first and foremost because you really need to crank them to get them to even out.

first you need to look at the tubes - 5150's are touchy bastards with preamp tube placement. others have mentioned liking chinese high gain pre's in theirs. personally i recommend JJ's to darken it a bit.

next you'll need to bias the tubes in the power amp correctly and also get them out of crossover distortion. the only problem with this, is that 5150's were never intended or designed to be biased manually, so its a common modification on 5150's to allow for manual bias adjustment by a technician and is recommended to be done for both tube life and also headroom/tonal applications once you actually do get some volume going.

next, some people prefer to boost the front end with an 808 or something simillar to "tighten" the amplifier.

then there is also a few links around the board referencing a few component changes that can be done to articulate the gain into a cameron attitude, if you're into that sort of thing.

as far as more gain out of an ultra plus, ive never heard anyone say this before. i would make sure the amplifier isnt deffective, and if it is fine, i would consider another amplifier as ultra plus 120's are pretty high gain.

 

[Tawlks]

Part of the reason I sold my 5150 II was for the reasons you're stating, if I were in your situation I would sell the 6505 and stick with the Ultra+ but that's just me, both are great amps.

Glgp80 said pretty much everything that needs to be said on that front, if, after fiddling with the 6505 you're still bothered by the sound then sell it, or, keep it aside for practice/gigs. Don't be afraid to prefer the cheaper amp, I know that sounds weird.

 

[glpg80]

Part of the reason I sold my 5150 II was for the reasons you're stating, if I were in your situation I would sell the 6505 and stick with the Ultra+ but that's just me, both are great amps.

Glgp80 said pretty much everything that needs to be said on that front, if, after fiddling with the 6505 you're still bothered by the sound then sell it, or, keep it aside for practice/gigs. Don't be afraid to prefer the cheaper amp, I know that sounds weird.

yeah +1, all of the things i have mentioned for 5150's are very common and dont really degrade the value. if anything it helps to increase it or at least hold its value since it's pretty well known they have to be done to get them to sound right.

i have owned my 5150 II for 6 years and at one point owned a 5150 and a 5150 II at the same time, and while i love that amplifier there are times it's tone gets tiring, and sometimes i just want a change. will probably never sell it, because every time i get a chance to open it up above the volume level of 4 i remember why i bought one.

5150's can sound great, but not without a little work on your end. definately not one of those amplifiers you buy it and have to do nothing in order to get the most out of them. after all, they are 20 years old.

 

[nagnuggets]

okay thanks guys, i do get to crank it here and there but not that often only if the daughter and wife are gone...lol.. and for my ultra plus yes it has plenty of gain i jsut wanted to see if there was any thing simple DIY mods i could do to possible get more... i also have a over drive pedal out front of both amps, not a 808 but a bad monkey.. i really wanted to like the 6505 but its hard.. i have sone alot of tube swaping in the preamp sec.. and some days im like hell yeah theres that beast and some days im like damn its to bright.... but everytime i turn on my ultra plus im like damn this amp is brutal.. plus i use a bbe sonic stomp which makes the ultra plus more brutal.. but doesnt do much for my 6505.. also guys i got a super good deal on my 6505 super, and theres a kid local that has a ESP/ltd ec 1000 deluxe with hard case. brand new like 1 wek old that wants to trade.. everyone tells me im dumb, but im not out to make a ton of money off it, im jsut looking to get some good music equipment finally for home play.. like i said im not out to rip anyone off or get rip off i jsut want good stuff, would trading him be dumb on my part since i like my ultra better, its got emgs 60 and 81 would this make my ultra sound even better.. and would modding my ultra plus be beneficial.. i can get it done for a great price as well!! thanks guys for helping.....lmk what you think

 

[nagnuggets]

fiddling with the 6505 you're still bothered by the sound then sell it, or, keep it aside for practice/gigs. Don't be afraid to prefer the cheaper amp, I know that sounds weird.[/quote]

i think thats it im afraid that the cheaper amp sounds better, and dont want the 6505 to go becasue of all the hype that it has on its shoulders!!!!! ill watch youtube vid after vid and MOST of the 6505 sound brutal as hell, but not mine..and i want it to sound freaking amazing but i cant, also im a newbie to tube amps 6505 not my first, VK100 was 1st.. but i feel im strating to get a ear for tone.. and the ultra+ jsut sounds better to my ears, is that crazy???? should it??? i also had a friend come over that knows nothing about tone and the 6505 or ultra+to him he thinks there the same amp jsut ones older than the other...due to both being peavey.. and he also said ultra + sounded way better.. hes exact words where it sounds tighter and less frizzy... but it seems that the 6505 has more overdrive.. i dont know, sorry to i guess bitch about what im going thru.. basically i jsut want to make sure i sell the right amp and not the wrong one...

 

[Spaceboy]

5150 series need to be cranked to get beefy, and turn down the presence and gain knobs... most people go way overboard with those without realizing. That's why it gets so buzzy. You could also do bias mod, which can significantly reduce the harshness of the amp, and only costs a few bucks if you have the skills, or a good tech. That buzz is an integral part of the 5150 sound, and the reason it cuts so well, but some people don't gel with it. I repeatedly buy and sell 5150 series amps (I've had one of each, but not the 5153) because I get irritated with the fizziness in practice/solo situations, although it's one of the best stage amps I've ever owned.

I think a 100W tube amp is overkill for a home musician though, if that's your thing. Invest is something smaller!

 

[JakeAC5253]

For one last hurrah before you sell it, buy all new tubes pre and power from Laura at Valvequeen (shell hook you up with the right tubes for your amp) and do the 6 to 7 cap mod from psychodave's thread. The cap mod kills a lot of fizz and makes the gain and presence ranges more useable. It is a much better bedroom amplifier now. The 5150/6505 is a midrange assault kind of amp, but I think something may be wrong with your amp, tubes maybe.

 

[nagnuggets]

[quote
I think a 100W tube amp is overkill for a home musician though, if that's your thing. Invest is something smaller![/quote]

well the one thing i like about the ultra + it has a output switch.. i can go to 60watts or 120 watts... i jsut moved some preamp tubes around.. v1 jjecc83 v2 eh 12ax7 v3 eh 12ax7 v4 tung sol v5 lps and it actually sounds better.. alot better.. but thing thing is like everyone said its not a bedroom amp and i am a bedroom player 85% of the time.. i have been playing with a few friends tht want to get started jsut for a weekend gig type thing... but were the ultra + can go lower in watts i think its the amp for me... it sounds great at lower volumes and brutal at higher... i bought the 6505 for a GREAT DEAL!!! and becasue i was getting the ultra + service ad the tech took for ever.. so i needed a amp so i bought it... but you all think i would be dumb to trade for a ec1000 heres a pic of the guitar.. please let me know if this is smart..

 

[JakeAC5253]

Well I think it's a dumb choice, but that's me. The guitar isn't even equal to price of the amp when both are brand new. The 6505 will cut much better than your Ultra at gig volume, so if I were you I would find some way to make due with the 6505 at low volumes (distortion pedal into clean/crunch channel or something) and keep it around as your go to gig amp because it sounds and cuts fantastic at higher volumes. You already answered your own question, moving tubes around made a difference, so one or more tubes in it are bad. The cabinet you are using may not be the best compliment to it though. 5150's sound great through V30 cabs.

 

[nagnuggets]

okay well i did a few sounds samples of both amps and with the jj in v1 it helped alot... for the 6505, the 6505 is more brutal sounding by the samples but the ultra + holds it own with the 6505, i guess its my untrained ears.. the thing is i dont need to amps.. says my lovely wife!!!! so basically one has to go... so thats why im having a hard time... with this... i have a guy wanting to trade a esp/ltd m400 for my ultra + and a guy ec1000 for the 6505!! so i dont know.. i do want a new guitar but i might keep them a little longer and see what i decide.. i want them both, but the wife would cut me off forever if i id that.... thanks guys for the comments

 

[nagnuggets]

Well I think it's a dumb choice, but that's me. The guitar isn't even equal to price of the amp when both are brand new. The 6505 will cut much better than your Ultra at gig volume, so if I were you I would find some way to make due with the 6505 at low volumes (distortion pedal into clean/crunch channel or something) and keep it around as your go to gig amp because it sounds and cuts fantastic at higher volumes. You already answered your own question, moving tubes around made a difference, so one or more tubes in it are bad. The cabinet you are using may not be the best compliment to it though. 5150's sound great through V30 cabs.

they sound great through v 30 cabs????? so swamp thangs and texas heats might be the prob as well... well there a guy with a brand new laney cab with v30s in it.. would that be a good thing to get!!! he wants 350.00 for it.. i could sell my cab or the ultra plus to get it.. you think that would help alot???

 

[nagnuggets]

okay i also noticed that when i use my ibanez with the seymour invader pup in bridge it sounds even more frizzy, than when i use my esp/ltd stock pup.. so would active pickups help this prob or make it worse... thanks

 

[Spaceboy]

Well, from what I understand, EMGs are actually low-output pickups that are boosted with a preamp, which is how they are able to remain clear with high gain settings. That could explain there being less fizz with EMGs than SDs, which I've never personally liked. I've mostly been a DiMarzio player, even choosing them over some Bare Knuckles. Evolutions sound great through 5150s, IMO. 350 for a quad of Vintage 30s isn't too bad, and Laney makes some solid cabinets. T75s are great speakers for 5150s too, and Vintage 30/T75 X-patterns.

 

[nagnuggets]

Okay well if active emgs will help it I'll try them.. As for swamp thangs and Texas heat in X pattern!! Is that not a good mix for 5150s??? I figure swamps for low end and heats for mid and highs!! But I'll try the v30's out.. The thing is I like both amps ultra + over 6505 and in my mind I know it should be vice versa.. Also the JJ and mullard really helped over EH 12ax7 and tung sol.. But in my ultra+ it's reversed.. EH12ax7 sound brutal in the ultra

 

[nagnuggets]

What about the mod clipping something to reduce the fizzy.. Could someone please explain in great detail how and what to clip?? And if I clip it will it reduce the gain?? Or will it keep the gain and reduce fizzy high harshness???

 

[JakeAC5253]

What about the mod clipping something to reduce the fizzy.. Could someone please explain in great detail how and what to clip?? And if I clip it will it reduce the gain?? Or will it keep the gain and reduce fizzy high harshness???

I would definitely look into grabbing that Laney cab. I don't have the low down on Laney cabinets, but it really can't hurt to try right? Think of it as getting a second opinion on which amp to keep and which to sell. Your wife should appreciate that fact. I haven't liked anything from Eminence.

The mod is listed in detail here. It's the 10pF cap mod to V5.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80183

I went with the 6 to 7 mod rather than the initially proposed 7 to 8 mod as the effect is a little more pronounced, but it sounds as it should. The gain level stays as it is but the "noise" that goes along with it is reduced.

 

[Greazygeo]

Make sure it doesnt have EH preamp tubes. They are really bright. Load it with Chinese 12ax7's and turn it up.

 

[nagnuggets]

What about the mod clipping something to reduce the fizzy.. Could someone please explain in great detail how and what to clip?? And if I clip it will it reduce the gain?? Or will it keep the gain and reduce fizzy high harshness???

I would definitely look into grabbing that Laney cab. I don't have the low down on Laney cabinets, but it really can't hurt to try right? Think of it as getting a second opinion on which amp to keep and which to sell. Your wife should appreciate that fact. I haven't liked anything from Eminence.

The mod is listed in detail here. It's the 10pF cap mod to V5.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80183

I went with the 6 to 7 mod rather than the initially proposed 7 to 8 mod as the effect is a little more pronounced, but it sounds as it should. The gain level stays as it is but the "noise" that goes along with it is reduced.

okay ill try the mod out for the cab its about 2hrs away... how are the wgs speakers those celestion clones?? likethe vertern 30 with et65 in an x pattern...

 

[roadifier]

I would keep the ultra + and one of those cabs with the eminence since that rig sounds good, then sell the other cab with eminence and use the money from that to buy the V30 laney cab for the 6505. Both amps are great, but I don't think you should have to like one amp over the other just because of price. If one sounds better than the other, than It does.