Adding a cab to my rig. Some speaker questions.

[MojoSoDope]

Hi everyone! First post here. So I'm currently set up with a good mic'd gig rig, with my Dark Terror 15w head, and a 16ohm Orange cab with V30s in it. This rig is excellent for small gigs and practices, but I'm finding that my band is getting asked to play some shows in February that don't have house PAs, so I'm gonna need to start being able to fill a room. I thought about getting a 50-100watt head, but decided that wasn't really the route I wanna go, as I love the sound I have now with the Dark Terror and my pedalboard, and don't feel like shelling out thousands of dollars for a quality high watt head. Essentially, I decided I want to get a 4x12, in addition to the cab I already have, so depending on show size I can bring either 2, 4, or 6 speakers. This being said, I'm relatively new to setting up rigs and have a few questions, so if you can answer any I'd appreciate it!

1) My current 2x12 is 16ohms. If I got a 4x12 rated at 16ohms, I should line out from from my Dark Terror one of the 8ohm outputs->16 ohm 2x12, and then the other 8ohm output->16ohm 4x12. Correct? Don't want any smoke coming from my amp

2) Next question is about mixing speakers in a rig. I'm not necessarily looking to get a 4x12 with V30s, I'm thinking I'd like to start hearing other speakers, both by themselves, and in combination with other speakers. Typically I see this done in a 2x12 with 1 speaker of each type, or a 4x12 with 2 speakers of each type. I'm leaning towards getting a 4x12 with all the same speaker type, but will it be 'weird' to have 4 of one speaker type and 2 of another? Will this have any adverse effects to tone beyond having one speaker type be marginally louder than the other?

3) If I had this new rig with all 6 speakers at a show with a house PA, which should I mic up? Seems like it would be pretty much preference. If, for example, the 4x12 has G12-t75s in it, and the 2x12 has V30s, I can imagine it would be better to keep the 4x12 on bottom, and the 2x12 on top, since the mids of the V30s will travel farther through the room than the full/treble range of the G12-t75s (also considering I play a lot of mid-treble "leads" in the band that I'd like to sort of "shimmer" and cut through). Am I on the right track with that notion?

 

[Reflux]

I know you said you're shying away from the V30's, but check out the Warehouse Guitar Speakers Veteran 30...I know fluff put up a comparison video of them against the V30 a while back, and BTBAM switched to them, exclusively. I've jammed through a 112 Orange with a Veteran 30 and thought it sounded incredible.
The nice part about them, is that it gives you a "new" sound, from a familiar build, and what I am assuming, will be a familiar mic'ing situation for any sound engineer you may come across.

 

[petejt]

A friend of mine has a stereo setup just like that. It sounded pretty good when I saw his band play last weekend. Was a great night.

If you're concerned about the Dark Terror smoking up, then yep use the Line Out to a power amp that has the right impedance outputs to handle the 4x12 cab. Most power amps will be capable.

I've mucked around a bit with using different speakers in the same cab. I haven't always got it right. I'm trying some new stuff now.
Don't worry too much about it sounding 'weird'. It will sound different depending on where you stand. You'd have a field day recording it in a studio and playing around with phase cancelling!

Just mic up the speaker that overall sounds 'best' to you. Maybe mic up the G12T75 to run through the PA? Since the V30s will project into the audience anyway so they'll hear a blend of both in the air.

 

[webrthomson]

Welcome, my thoughts are in bold!

1) My current 2x12 is 16ohms. If I got a 4x12 rated at 16ohms, I should line out from from my Dark Terror one of the 8ohm outputs->16 ohm 2x12, and then the other 8ohm output->16ohm 4x12. Correct? Don't want any smoke coming from my amp

Yes if running 2x16 Ohm cabs then you power them from the both the 8 ohm outputs

2) Next question is about mixing speakers in a rig. I'm not necessarily looking to get a 4x12 with V30s, I'm thinking I'd like to start hearing other speakers, both by themselves, and in combination with other speakers. Typically I see this done in a 2x12 with 1 speaker of each type, or a 4x12 with 2 speakers of each type. I'm leaning towards getting a 4x12 with all the same speaker type, but will it be 'weird' to have 4 of one speaker type and 2 of another? Will this have any adverse effects to tone beyond having one speaker type be marginally louder than the other?

It's kind of personal preference - mixing within a speaker cab or different cabs with different speakers is do'able, it's generally worth making sure the sensitivity of the speakers are close as this effects the perceived volume of the speaker (within the same cab) if they are way out you might get odd results. However given one is a 2x12 and one is a 4x12 you are going to get some volume irregularities anyway given the difference in driver area between the cabs.

TBH I don't remember the last time I needed two cabs for a gig - I almost always use a single 4x12 these days!

3) If I had this new rig with all 6 speakers at a show with a house PA, which should I mic up? Seems like it would be pretty much preference. If, for example, the 4x12 has G12-t75s in it, and the 2x12 has V30s, I can imagine it would be better to keep the 4x12 on bottom, and the 2x12 on top, since the mids of the V30s will travel farther through the room than the full/treble range of the G12-t75s (also considering I play a lot of mid-treble "leads" in the band that I'd like to sort of "shimmer" and cut through). Am I on the right track with that notion?

Again personal preference - what sound do you want out coming of the PA? Normally the sound guy is only going to mic a single cone (of the six you have). So in your example the choice is V30 or G12-75, placement of the cabs themselves is not going to make any difference to the sounds from the PA front of house once they are miked up (placement of the mike does though). It will of course make a difference to the stage sound and to those in front of the stage, depending on the PA volume and a whole lot of other things.

 

[MojoSoDope]

Thank you all for your thoughts! It's help me a lot.

I know you said you're shying away from the V30's, but check out the Warehouse Guitar Speakers Veteran 30...

I've looked at quite a few speaker comparisons with those, thanks to you. Might be something I check out further down the line when I have more money for more rigs But as for now I'm probably going to stick with the V30s in my 2x12 I have now, and maybe experiment with some combinations

A friend of mine has a stereo setup just like that. It sounded pretty good when I saw his band play last weekend. Was a great night.

This tempts me to go for it, and do the 3/4(?) stack, with a 2x12 V30s and 4x12 G12-T75s as I planned

Again personal preference - what sound do you want out coming of the PA? Normally the sound guy is only going to mic a single cone (of the six you have). So in your example the choice is V30 or G12-75, placement of the cabs themselves is not going to make any difference to the sounds from the PA front of house once they are miked up (placement of the mike does though). It will of course make a difference to the stage sound and to those in front of the stage, depending on the PA volume and a whole lot of other things.

This tempts me not to. Kind of makes me think that it'll be a "just for me" result, where I'll hear the difference but the audience might not be so aware of it, especially considering I'd be mic'ing one speaker as you're suggesting. Sigh. As far as the combination of speaker sensitivities goes, I've heard the V30's overpower the G12-t75s from a lot of people, so I'm under the (wishful) impression that 2 V30s and 4 G12s might actually result in a beautiful soul-shattering combination. Maybe I'm just dreaming.

Only one way to find out, I found a Marshall 900 series lead cab 4x12 loaded with the G12-t75s, for a DAMN good price. Will be mulling over the purchase for the next couple days If I pull the trigger, I'll post here and let you guys know what I think!

Thanks again for the responses! Any more input is always welcome.

 

[webrthomson]

As far as the combination of speaker sensitivities goes, I've heard the V30's overpower the G12-t75s from a lot of people, so I'm under the (wishful) impression that 2 V30s and 4 G12s might actually result in a beautiful soul-shattering combination. Maybe I'm just dreaming.

Honestly I'd try it - if you can grab a cab with G12-75's in it for a good price, why not go for it and see how you go at practice

I run a Marshall 1960AV with X-pattern V30's (so a mix of G12-75 / V30's in the same cab) and I think it's amazing, it seems to even out the slight faults in each speaker thus taming the slightly harsh high end of the G12-75's and the mid hump of the V30's! Sounds great to me with my Mesa running through it!

Nothing beats trying options though and once you have the cab's you can always swap in speakers to suit - currently I want to try the 75 watt creambacks, and Celestion just announced neo creambacks - oh the choices...