Anybody know about replacement windows?

[billsbigego]

Hello, we had windows nation over to see about replacing like 17 Windows. Now these are new construction windows as the house was built in 2002. They have a flange and the siding has to be removed. They said they do not remove the siding. They cut the window out.

This seems odd to me. How do they properly insulate the window if the new window does not have the nailing fin?

Also it seems to me that if they are doing 17 windows in one day, I can imagine what the finish is going to look like. Supposedly, they reuse the existing trim. I told them I would contemplate having them leave off the colonial trim and I would later do a wider craftsman style trim myself. If I'm paying 30k, I don't want to have to paint or do drywall. Thoughts?

They also made us sign a contract to "lock in the price" but upon reading the contract, it seems like we signed a legal document that is sort of forcing us to use them. I promptly sent the cancellation form right after the guy left, after I started reading through all the legal mumbo jumbo, which I don't understand.

After I sent the cancellation document, the guy responds with, "that's just to lock in the price," which is complete BS as far as I'm concerned. Then he says "Just let me know which options you want to go with so I can run your credit," as we wanted to finance like 7k out of the 30k. Unbelievable. I send a cancellation notice and the guy is still pushing.

I do have a ton of experience with a lot of carpentry stuff, just not so much windows as I mostly do finish carpentry. I would even contemplate doing this myself, but the issue is the back of my house, the windows are like 30' up and I don't really want to rent staging. I'd rather have someone else do it. Plus working a full time IT job and doing my side work, I don't have a lot of time.

 

[Floyd Eye]

I’m have no love for Window Nation but cutting the nailing flange with a sawzall and then installing a regular remod window is pretty standard. The new windows won’t have a flange and will be installed the traditional way. They’ll also be about an inch thicker ( the frame). It’s the same way if you were installing them in brick.

Window Nation is the Walmart of the window world. Their windows are basically builder grade.

I’ve installed tens of thousands of windows. I started my first exterior remodeling company in 1987 and retired from contracting in 2012.

 

[Floyd Eye]

By the way, 30k for 17 windows seems a bit steep but it’s been 13 years since I bid a job so….

Depending on the size of the crew one day for that is typical. By myself I could install and trim probably 7-10 windows. Usually the existing trim can be saved and reused and if the existing siding goes right up to the window frame ( so there is no aluminum capping on the outside of the window) it’s pretty simple. Cut the caulk off the j channel, remove interior trim, cut window out, install new window. Level, shim, screw, insulate, re-install trim, caulk j channel back to window using 100% silicone caulk. I could do a window like that in 45 minutes or an hour. As long as I am the one who measured the windows. Rule number one. Never let other people measure the windows you’re installing.

 

[billsbigego]

Yeah this fucking guy is unreal. Or was. Never want to see him again. I'm just trying to envision how they can just cut the flange off a window and pop it in place and flash and seal it properly. The design of a flange is to go up against the sheathing with a waterproof membrane over it. It just seems like a hack.

 

[VonBonfire]

Yeah this fucking guy is unreal. Or was. Never want to see him again. I'm just trying to envision how they can just cut the flange off a window and pop it in place and flash and seal it properly. The design of a flange is to go up against the sheathing with a waterproof membrane over it. It just seems like a hack.

Buy the scaffolding and windows and do it yourself or you're just gonna be pissed with the results. That's what happens when you actually know how to do stuff. You start seeing how lousy most people's work is and how badly they are overcharging for it.

 

[billsbigego]

Buy the scaffolding and windows and do it yourself or you're just gonna be pissed with the results. That's what happens when you actually know how to do stuff. You start seeing how lousy most people's work is and how badly they are overcharging for it.

Yeah I know you are right and my gut tells me this also. I only have 1 more year in this place, so I'm wondering if it's worth it. I might just attempt to rebuild all the seals on the windows and clean them up. It will take forever for 17 windows, but if I do 1 per week or whatever. Nobody does anything to my standards it seems. I just finished these 2 for a customer a couple weeks ago, then this one recently. The first one was time consuming and the 2nd one I had to attach the frame to rocks in the foundation

I'm getting sick of carpentry.

 

[billsbigego]

But I do love the detail work. This is funny, I replaced this bulkhead with composite, then the F'N thing wouldn't open. I told the woman I need to modify the trim around the bay window so the door would open and she went and got me a hand plane and said "get to work"

 

[Floyd Eye]

Yeah this fucking guy is unreal. Or was. Never want to see him again. I'm just trying to envision how they can just cut the flange off a window and pop it in place and flash and seal it properly. The design of a flange is to go up against the sheathing with a waterproof membrane over it. It just seems like a hack.

Dude, it’s not really a flange. Its only purpose is a nailing flange to make installation faster and it is a completely inferior way to install a window. All replacement windows should be screwed in from the sides. New construction windows suck. They’re inferior in all ways except speed/ease of installation . Period.

 

[billsbigego]

Dude, it’s not really a flange. Its only purpose is a nailing flange to make installation faster and it is a completely inferior way to install a window. All replacement windows should be screwed in from the sides. New construction windows suck. They’re inferior in all ways except speed/ease of installation . Period.

Well I never got into windows. So I don't know. I'm just trying to envision how they cut out my current vinyl window and flash under the J channel and seal the window. It sounds like these Window Nation guys said they sawzall the window out, leaving the flange attached as when it was first installed, screw the window from the sides as you mentioned and then caulk around the window where it meets the rough opening. I asked to see pics of the process and they can't provide it. It just seems like a butcher process, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Well I never got into windows. So I don't know. I'm just trying to envision how they cut out my current vinyl window and flash under the J channel and seal the window. It sounds like these Window Nation guys said they sawzall the window out, leaving the flange attached as when it was first installed, screw the window from the sides as you mentioned and then caulk around the window where it meets the rough opening. I asked to see pics of the process and they can't provide it. It just seems like a butcher process, but maybe I'm missing something.

You seem to think the nailing flange on your new construction windows is flashing. In reality it is a very thin plastic nailing fin with nail slots all over it. To remove it you simply score it with a razor knife and snap it off. Google Image "New construction vinyl window" and find a close up of one. I promise you that nailing flange does nothing except attach the window to the wall. It's hard as fuck to level a window properly using nail in windows. Your window is also being held in place by 4 or 6 roofing nails. I prefer to use 2 1/2"-3" screws and shim the window properly. And if the window frame is properly caulked with silicone to the J channel, it's sealed brother. End of story.

Then again, this could be all a miscommunication. Take a picture of one of your windows from the outside, fairly close up and post it here and I will tell you how I would go about replacing it.

These are not nail in windows and they are not nail in doors. The window is caulked to the aluminum capping which is caulked to the J channel. And if you look at the wide double hung window that is facing you on my tan house, that used to just be a wall there. A cut a hole in it and put j channel around the hole and slid a window in there, siliconing the J channel to the window. We had a ridiculous storm 2 Fridays ago, hella rain and even a tornado which wiped out 3 houses on my street and snapped 4 phone poles. All my shit stayed right where I put it and none of it leaks and none of it has ever leaked. The windows on my gray house have been in there for over 25 years.

 

[billsbigego]

So I assume this front part of the window is removable, then you have to take off the siding. I understand that people cut the flange off. The problem I have is I need to see pictures of how this works. I'm one of those idiots that needs to see how something works. Text, doesn't do much for me. I've searched high and low. There are no videos or tutorials on my scenario. If I knew what to do, I could do it, with ease. I know how to square, shim, level, etc...

I just never got into windows. Customers ask me to do windows and I turn them away. I was never shown how to do it.

 

[JackBootedThug]

Replaced all my windows with double pane insulated gelwind brand windows. I used new construction because after I did that I covered my house in 1” foam insulation with the moisture barrier on one side and reflective foil on the other. Then I did siding. The replacement windows are just for the opening. They slide in and you nail or screw. Then you caulk or foam the gaps. Be careful with the foam because it can put to much pressure on the window and it won’t open properly. They make foam strips for insulation you can stick in the gaps so you don’t usa gobs of foam. Then hit the exterior with the insulation tape. Bad thing about these is you gotta trim the outside and the inside to get the nice finished look. I would buy from Lowe’s or 84, or Home Depot. I would not fuck with these window places unless they are a legitimate mom and pop place that’s been there forever. It’s not hard to do windows. If I can do it, anybody can do it.

 

[JackBootedThug]

By the way, 30k for 17 windows seems a bit steep but it’s been 13 years since I bid a job so….

Depending on the size of the crew one day for that is typical. By myself I could install and trim probably 7-10 windows. Usually the existing trim can be saved and reused and if the existing siding goes right up to the window frame ( so there is no aluminum capping on the outside of the window) it’s pretty simple. Cut the caulk off the j channel, remove interior trim, cut window out, install new window. Level, shim, screw, insulate, re-install trim, caulk j channel back to window using 100% silicone caulk. I could do a window like that in 45 minutes or an hour. As long as I am the one who measured the windows. Rule number one. Never let other people measure the windows you’re installing.

I did windows, gutters, insulation and siding for around 20k…. That was about 12 years ago… sears came out here and gave me a 30k quote for windows… then the salesman started to get pushy about it. Ask me how that worked out for him?

 

[Floyd Eye]

So I assume this front part of the window is removable, then you have to take off the siding. I understand that people cut the flange off. The problem I have is I need to see pictures of how this works. I'm one of those idiots that needs to see how something works. Text, doesn't do much for me. I've searched high and low. There are no videos or tutorials on my scenario. If I knew what to do, I could do it, with ease. I know how to square, shim, level, etc...

I just never got into windows. Customers ask me to do windows and I turn them away. I was never shown how to do it.

Are those aluminum windows ?

 

[Floyd Eye]

Replaced all my windows with double pane insulated gelwind brand windows. I used new construction because after I did that I covered my house in 1” foam insulation with the moisture barrier on one side and reflective foil on the other. Then I did siding. The replacement windows are just for the opening. They slide in and you nail or screw. Then you caulk or foam the gaps. Be careful with the foam because it can put too much pressure on the window and it won’t open properly. They make foam strips for insulation you can stick in the gaps so you don’t usa gobs of foam. Then hit the exterior with the insulation tape. Bad thing about these is you gotta trim the outside and the inside to get the nice finished look. I would buy from Lowe’s or 84, or Home Depot. I would not fuck with these window places unless they are a legitimate mom and pop place that’s been there forever. It’s not hard to do windows. If I can do it, anybody can do it.

Never in a million years would I use a window from Lowe’s or Home Depot. You don’t have to hire a window company to buy windows from a window manufacturing company. Which will definitely be a much higher quality window. Those box stores sell mostly low end Pellas. You can install them properly then sit inside smoking a cigarette and literally watch the air blowing through them.

 

[billsbigego]

Are those aluminum windows ?

Vinyl

 

[JackBootedThug]

Never in a million years would I use a window from Lowe’s or Home Depot. You don’t have to hire a window company to buy windows from a window manufacturing company. Which will definitely be a much higher quality window. Those box stores sell mostly low end Pellas. You can install them properly then sit inside smoking a cigarette and literally watch the air blowing through them.

I got mine through 84. Not sure if it’s a wv thing but you can’t buy from a manufacturer directly. I tried that with some tongue and groove pine once and they said I had to go through my local stores. My windows were top quality insulated and sealed with the inert gas between the panels. Not sure if I’m spelling gel wind correctly but they are great windows.

 

[JackBootedThug]

Vinyl

I replaced old single pane aluminum frame windows. They were like just having open windows. Horrible….

 

[Floyd Eye]

Vinyl

I’d sawzall them out.