Anyone else find modelers/sims uninspiring?

You can't compare playing thru a head/cab/combo to playing thru headphones on a modeler.

I run my Quad Cortex through a Powerstage 170 to a Marshall 4x12 and it sounds massive. I could alternatively run my QC to two Positive Grid powered FRFRs for a stereo set up. Or I can run my QC into my stereo Crown power amp to my two Marshall 4x12s and it's mind numbing.

I still crank my tube amp now and then, but it's infinitely more inspiring to me when I can turn on my QC and instantly swap between high gain, crunch, clean, and acoustic with all different effects at the touch of a footswitch switch without a huge pedalboard or elaborate rack setup. I like the idea that I can capture an amp at different settings and turn it into a multichannel amp. I made captures of a Vox AC15HW at 3 different settings, then through my Powerstage I have 170 watts driving a 4x12 instead of 15 watts.
 
tjnx said:
True! I think one of the many bad side effects of social media, pressure to be perfect. On a positive note, I have had kids come up and hover when trying big amps out at guitar center and it's great to see it click.

Keep doing what you're doing though. Its a great service and I would be in heaven if I was a kid trying out your amps. Hearing someone rip a Marshall at gc is what pushed me over the edge to get a guitar years ago.


I think so. I had to practice silently for a while and while my amp is more difficult it makes me a better player. Easier to go amps to digital than the opposite.
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Thanks bro !
 
Shask said:
I have been finding modelers to have that smooth feel to them that makes leads easier, but have also been finding captures to have more of that immediate punchy feel more like an amp for rhythms.
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I only use modelers for my leads . Then tube amps for the main tone
 
rsm said:
I think it's all in what you're used to using. Early days of playing, after my initial phase of a cheap solid state amp as a kid, I was able to get tube amps. I learned how to use them, where to stand and what to do to get feedback and interplay with my guitars.

Then I went to racks; took years off, dusted off my old racks and got into a few new tube amps.

My first foray into modelers was the original Vox ToneLab, the table top version, and that phase ultimately led me to the Axe-FX Ultra when it was the top of their line.

What I learned along the way is that my approach to tube amps, hybrid racks (some mix of tube, analog, solid state, digital,...) and modelers, all required me to adjust my playing approach and style to get the most out of each.

If you approach digital modelers the same way as you approach tube amps, you will be disappointed in the experience.

IMO, many tube amp users are unable to make that adjustment to digital rigs, they give up before developing an approach / playing style, or just give up and go back to what they know (tube amps).

I think many younger players who have not learned how to work a tube amp effectively have the same issue in the opposite direction; they approach using a tube amp like they use modelers or plugins instead of learning / understanding the tube amp approach / playing style and are disappointed with the experience.

I'll add that many guitar players are luddites, which is why they continue to use guitars and amp technology based on 1950s / 1960s technology, and see that gear as the pinnacle. SMH

FWIW, keyboardists are like that too, with analog gear vs digital, but not nearly as bad as guitar players IME
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It can be cool . But nothing beats the roar of a wide open tube for the final production . For me
 
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Uninspiring sounds about right.

I played modelers almost exclusively for the first like 10 years of playing electric guitar, a pod XT back in college then axe FX II after that, mostly due to space and volume constraints. And I was a relentless tweaker the whole time.

When I eventually bought a detached house I had a spare room and could be as loud as I want so I got a tube power amp for the axe FX and just ran like that for a couple years. Then eventually just bought a dual rectifier for a good price. Man was I missing out, so much bigger and deeper than any model. And no relentless tweaking, spent like 20 minutes dialing it in and that’s pretty much how it’s been set ever since.

I spent a lot of time trying to tone match and match axe FX patches to the real amp(s) I have and while I often feel like I have success in the moment, but after getting used to the axe FX patch and how it sounds, when I compare to the real amp it becomes more apparent what is lacking. I eventually gave up on all that and I just play my tube amps 100% of the time now.

I always ran the axe FX into either a tube or solidstate power amp and the same guitar cabs so I’m not comparing headphones or monitors to a cab in the room.

Maybe the axe FX iii or the newer profilers are closer but I don’t have much motivation to bother with them as I don’t have space or volume constraints currently and I can just play my tube amps when I want. Also when I look at the axe FX forum and people talk about how the axe FX is finally ‘there’ and no more advanced tweaking is required, that’s the same stuff people were saying when the axe FX II came out.

I will also say - a tube amp that doesn’t do what I want it to do is also equally as uninspiring as a modeler to me… I have a jet city and Randall EOD that I grew bored of and didn’t sound how I want, and they were no fun either. I learned more about how amps work and circuit design and modded them both into amps that do sound good to me, and they’re now my favorite amps.
 
Racerxrated said:
Cool that you dig yours. It's all about what's right for each of us, that's the bottom line.

Curious though, have you run your modeler through a tube power amp? Long ago I had an AX8 and picked up a powered FRFR monitor, and had a Mesa S400 as well in a small WDW rack. Big difference for the better running through the Strategy.
Sold the Fractal, haven't been back since. But, I do keep a Peavey Classic 60/60 around for a possible future modeler. I'd never sell my tube amps though. But I may add a modeler at some point.
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Ive had my Axe-Fx for a few years now. When I first got it, I was just using headphones and studio monitors. I definitely understand where the guys missing that "amp in the room" are coming from, I experienced it when this was my Axe setup.

From there I went to using a couple Mackie powered PA speakers and while it was usable in a pinch it wasnt terribly enjoyable and sounded different from the headphones / monitors, so it was frustrating trying to tweak / balance to get them all sounding good enough. After that I tried running into the effects return on one of my Friedmans. That said my primary patches are two heads, panned l/r so taking up two tube heads and cabs didnt make sense....

I was about to go down the power amp route but couldnt really decide on tube vs. solid state and didnt really like the prices for what I thought I wanted and would still need two cabs as all of mine were wired mono at the time.

I wound up getting a Line 6 stereo power cab 2x12 FRFR. Im not saying it will be it for everyone, but that was it for me. When I turn it up it thumps, and it feels like an amp in the room again without compromising the tone in my phones, monitors or the cab. I ab'd it vs. my tube amps and have sold all my tube amps but 1 as a result. I can play it anytime like and disturb no one, I can record, and I can get about any tone I can imagine. I am not as discerning as everyone here, Im sure, but Im getting what I want to hear our of a 4u rack and a 2x12.
 
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Monkey Man said:
I've owned most of the great hardware modellers from the late '80s through to the Kemper era except for Fractal, Helix & QC.

With the caveat that I haven't tried the 3 mentioned above, the Kempers are in a league of their own when it comes to "natural", "organic" tones and responsiveness. It's like they're alive.

So yeah, if it weren't for Kemper, I'd have agreed with the OP 100%.
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I recently sold my FM9 and grabbed a Kemper Stage. I almost forgot how great the Kemper is and how good it feels. Plus, I love using Performance mode when playing live.
 
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Holy-diver said:
Yes.

For work flow they’re great but the amps are always needed.
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I bought a Quad Cortex a bit over a year ago and I love the tone and the feel of it! However there is something that is very inspiring even when playing tube amps thru a reactive load and listening to the tones thru high quality monitors. These are amazing times to be a guitarist! 😎 So many possibilities...
 
I like them for recording song ideas & headphone practicing. If I scroll through presets, I can always find a tone that’s close enough and run with it.
Holy-diver said:
Yes.

For work flow they’re great but the amps are always needed.
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This sums up my feelings pretty well.

I love being able to scroll through & find a preset, then get to work on whatever song idea I’m fumbling around with. It’s nice being able to do it silently from my laptop, and I can easily get a working tone that leaves me very little to complain about.

But what inspires me to play guitar in a way that’s actually fun has always been a real amp.
 
VonBonfire said:
I've found that gigs with owners/managers who are anal about stage volume also pay the worst and treat the bands the shittiest so they are warning signs that tell me that "I'm sorry, your venue isn't a good fit for our band", LOL. I guess I've moved past playing for $250-300 per night+2 free beers at multi million dollar establishments.
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Not sure if this will play but I just saw this as I was reading this :lol:

 
311boogieman said:
Not sure if this will play but I just saw this as I was reading this :lol:
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Not if you're using protection.
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Never understood why anyone would use a processor pretending to be an amp over a real one
 
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Quite the opposite for me, getting my AxeFX was like unlocking every bit of inspiration and motivation I had in me. Almost immediately I started digging into new genres just because I could get the tones and then the playing followed.

I thought I was going to have some epiphany when I started buying tube amps again a couple years back, as it’d been 7 or 8 years since I owned one, but a Shiva, 5153, Mesa ElectraDyne and now the Plexi50, while all sounding great, don’t do anything more for me that my AxeFX doesn’t in the inspiration regard. Even now while I’m head over heels for the Plexi, I haven’t written anything with it yet, I just love the way it sounds.

I think the biggest reason for this is because when I’m in writing/recording mode the only thing that’s motivating me is the music itself. How the tone I need for whatever song I’m writing is delivered is irrelevant as long as it does what I need it to do for the song.

Live is a different story and is precisely why I run my FM9 in 4CM with a 5153, I want a tube power section pushing an actual guitar cab. Playing in a band for me at this point is for nothing more than enjoyment and if I’m going to go through the hassle of dealing with band members, I’m only going to do it if I can crank up.
 
DrewJD82 said:
Quite the opposite for me, getting my AxeFX was like unlocking every bit of inspiration and motivation I had in me. Almost immediately I started digging into new genres just because I could get the tones and then the playing followed.
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This gets overlooked too. Inspiration can come in different ways. A modeler might have an amp you've never played or an effect that you don't have. Maybe it inspires you to go find the real deal gear or play other genres.
 
I own around a dozen tube amps, mostly Marshall, Marshall-flavored, most are 100W, down to 40W, up to 180W. If I use a pedal with a tube amp, it's usually just an EQ, and usually only with a single channel amp. I don't use an attenuator although I have one; I use earplugs, and like my tube amps' power amp to be a big part of the sound so I play them loud; if they have a MV, it's at 8 at least.

I also enjoy my ISP Theta Michael Sweet gear, into powered PA or tube power amp and guitar cabs.

sold / selling my digital modelers except my HX-Effects, SY-1000, and SY-300.

Once I got PolyChromeDSP McRockling Suite plugin as soon as it was released, shortly after I decided to build a computer rig. The first rig was ok, and it worked just more complex than it needed to be; so I made a second one, and I use my computer guitar rig more than anything else...

no plans to sell the tube amps, but I will probably sell most of them in the next several years as I'm getting older....

then there's my keyboard collection which has taken over my house :D
 
No. My Kemper is absolutely inspiring, no less than any amp I've played. I also own an OG Mark IIC+ and the Kemper gets 90% of the playing time.
 
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