anyone tried Alien Alliance Cabs?

[moltenmetalburn]

I love my eminence speakers. they have a flavor for everyone.

After a few direct comparisons Ill never go back to celestion now that they are made in china out of substandard steels.

these cabs look cool, i like the lid.

lol...."substandard steels". Is there a link confirming this info?

It is pretty much common knowledge in the metals industry that steels made in China have a high impurity content and low Carbon rendering them substandard to the rest of the world. as for a direct link, I'll look around later.

Rig talk member "EXP custom":

After 2003 they are all made in China, Mesa has Celestion finish their V30 frames in the UK but its still Chinese sheet metal since the stamping facilities went to China. Once a company moves to China the steel is poor quality just look at our Bay Bridge.

Low carbon content is why the Chinese steel sucks, in the USA and the UK most steel is around 30% carbon content in sheetmetal applications. Chinese steel is 6% Carbon content tops, most is just food grade or medical grade 3% Carbon sheetmetal.

Here's a quote from Celestion rep and forumite Rick Skillman:

It's amazing that this subject still comes up weekly. First, the "Chinese" Celestion's are not "farmed out", but instead made at our parent companies facility near Hong Kong. Better yet they are made on the same machines which shipped from our original factory. Therefore the debate on tonal difference is somewhat mute though amusing. Virtually every builder (who uses them) is perfectly happy with them as are their customers. Most will tell you that the quality is better now than when built at the old factory. Secondly, the factory is now in Ipswich and has been for awhile. That factory manufacturers the Heritage G12M & H, Blues, Golds, Century's (not Century Vintage though). Many people love them, but there are those who prefer the current Chinese model.....for instance Fred and Divided By 13 (who is no slouch when it comes to tone), and a few others. The difference with the standard G12M and Heritage 12M's is that the Heritage model is built to the original spec as much as possible. Many make speakers, so whether it's ours or Jim's Scumback, the most important thing is to plug in, have fun, and just play!

Cheers,
Rick

Ok the same machines, that's fine but the steel is still from China therefore the metals are different and of a lower quality. I am referring to the V30, gt 75, k 100 Celestion's most popular speakers. I know that they still make some of them in England but those are now near double the price.

his post doesn't address the issue at all. in fact he avoids the point all together quoting manufacturer preferences as "proof" of equivalency. just a manufacturer defending their product, hes obviously not goign to admit in a public forum that lower quality materials are being used as well as offshore labor in order to increase profits.

he is way off the mark saying the tonal difference debate is somewhat mute because they are made on the same machines! What does that have to do with the resonating properties of the metals being compared???

The only way to know is to have them scientifically compared.

I for one will tentatively believe that is does make a difference as the resonance of quality metal vs inferior metal is well documented. this post of his hasn't changed my mind or settled it one bit.

he then recommends that I just forget about it and play, though I am an audiophile and I cannot just forget about it , I have spent far too much time analyzing my signal chain for superior sound to let this slide, the speaker after all is a major component of the final sound.

Some people could care less, that's cool too.

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

Chinese made sold at U.K. Made prices

 

[AmpliFIRE]

Chinese made sold at U.K. Made prices

FWIW, the prices would have gone up drastically if they stayed in the UK...

 

[AmpliFIRE]

I love my eminence speakers. they have a flavor for everyone.

After a few direct comparisons Ill never go back to celestion now that they are made in china out of substandard steels.

these cabs look cool, i like the lid.

lol...."substandard steels". Is there a link confirming this info?

It is pretty much common knowledge in the metals industry that steels made in China have a high impurity content and low Carbon rendering them substandard to the rest of the world. as for a direct link, I'll look around later.

Rig talk member "EXP custom":

After 2003 they are all made in China, Mesa has Celestion finish their V30 frames in the UK but its still Chinese sheet metal since the stamping facilities went to China. Once a company moves to China the steel is poor quality just look at our Bay Bridge.

Low carbon content is why the Chinese steel sucks, in the USA and the UK most steel is around 30% carbon content in sheetmetal applications. Chinese steel is 6% Carbon content tops, most is just food grade or medical grade 3% Carbon sheetmetal.

Here's a quote from Celestion rep and forumite Rick Skillman:

It's amazing that this subject still comes up weekly. First, the "Chinese" Celestion's are not "farmed out", but instead made at our parent companies facility near Hong Kong. Better yet they are made on the same machines which shipped from our original factory. Therefore the debate on tonal difference is somewhat mute though amusing. Virtually every builder (who uses them) is perfectly happy with them as are their customers. Most will tell you that the quality is better now than when built at the old factory. Secondly, the factory is now in Ipswich and has been for awhile. That factory manufacturers the Heritage G12M & H, Blues, Golds, Century's (not Century Vintage though). Many people love them, but there are those who prefer the current Chinese model.....for instance Fred and Divided By 13 (who is no slouch when it comes to tone), and a few others. The difference with the standard G12M and Heritage 12M's is that the Heritage model is built to the original spec as much as possible. Many make speakers, so whether it's ours or Jim's Scumback, the most important thing is to plug in, have fun, and just play!

Cheers,
Rick

Ok the same machines, that's fine but the steel is still from China therefore the metals are different and of a lower quality. I am referring to the V30, gt 75, k 100 Celestion's most popular speakers. I know that they still make some of them in England but those are now near double the price.

his post doesn't address the issue at all. in fact he avoids the point all together quoting manufacturer preferences as "proof" of equivalency. just a manufacturer defending their product, hes obviously not goign to admit in a public forum that lower quality materials are being used as well as offshore labor in order to increase profits.

he is way off the mark saying the tonal difference debate is somewhat mute because they are made on the same machines! What does that have to do with the resonating properties of the metals being compared???

The only way to know is to have them scientifically compared.

I for one will tentatively believe that is does make a difference as the resonance of quality metal vs inferior metal is well documented. this post of his hasn't changed my mind or settled it one bit.

he then recommends that I just forget about it and play, though I am an audiophile and I cannot just forget about it , I have spent far too much time analyzing my signal chain for superior sound to let this slide, the speaker after all is a major component of the final sound.

Some people could care less, that's cool too.

It doesn't seem as though he was asked directly about the metal content of their speakers...I would like to hear his response to that. I definitely agree about having them scientifically compared, and until that happens I don't see any reason as to saying that they're inferior just because of where they are made.

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

Chinese made sold at U.K. Made prices

FWIW, the prices would have gone up drastically if they stayed in the UK...

This is one of those situations I am glad I kept my 15-16 yr old speaker cabinets..

 

[moltenmetalburn]

I love my eminence speakers. they have a flavor for everyone.

After a few direct comparisons Ill never go back to celestion now that they are made in china out of substandard steels.

these cabs look cool, i like the lid.

lol...."substandard steels". Is there a link confirming this info?

It is pretty much common knowledge in the metals industry that steels made in China have a high impurity content and low Carbon rendering them substandard to the rest of the world. as for a direct link, I'll look around later.

Rig talk member "EXP custom":

After 2003 they are all made in China, Mesa has Celestion finish their V30 frames in the UK but its still Chinese sheet metal since the stamping facilities went to China. Once a company moves to China the steel is poor quality just look at our Bay Bridge.

Low carbon content is why the Chinese steel sucks, in the USA and the UK most steel is around 30% carbon content in sheetmetal applications. Chinese steel is 6% Carbon content tops, most is just food grade or medical grade 3% Carbon sheetmetal.

Here's a quote from Celestion rep and forumite Rick Skillman:

It's amazing that this subject still comes up weekly. First, the "Chinese" Celestion's are not "farmed out", but instead made at our parent companies facility near Hong Kong. Better yet they are made on the same machines which shipped from our original factory. Therefore the debate on tonal difference is somewhat mute though amusing. Virtually every builder (who uses them) is perfectly happy with them as are their customers. Most will tell you that the quality is better now than when built at the old factory. Secondly, the factory is now in Ipswich and has been for awhile. That factory manufacturers the Heritage G12M & H, Blues, Golds, Century's (not Century Vintage though). Many people love them, but there are those who prefer the current Chinese model.....for instance Fred and Divided By 13 (who is no slouch when it comes to tone), and a few others. The difference with the standard G12M and Heritage 12M's is that the Heritage model is built to the original spec as much as possible. Many make speakers, so whether it's ours or Jim's Scumback, the most important thing is to plug in, have fun, and just play!

Cheers,
Rick

Ok the same machines, that's fine but the steel is still from China therefore the metals are different and of a lower quality. I am referring to the V30, gt 75, k 100 Celestion's most popular speakers. I know that they still make some of them in England but those are now near double the price.

his post doesn't address the issue at all. in fact he avoids the point all together quoting manufacturer preferences as "proof" of equivalency. just a manufacturer defending their product, hes obviously not goign to admit in a public forum that lower quality materials are being used as well as offshore labor in order to increase profits.

he is way off the mark saying the tonal difference debate is somewhat mute because they are made on the same machines! What does that have to do with the resonating properties of the metals being compared???

The only way to know is to have them scientifically compared.

I for one will tentatively believe that is does make a difference as the resonance of quality metal vs inferior metal is well documented. this post of his hasn't changed my mind or settled it one bit.

he then recommends that I just forget about it and play, though I am an audiophile and I cannot just forget about it , I have spent far too much time analyzing my signal chain for superior sound to let this slide, the speaker after all is a major component of the final sound.

Some people could care less, that's cool too.

It doesn't seem as though he was asked directly about the metal content of their speakers...I would like to hear his response to that. I definitely agree about having them scientifically compared, and until that happens I don't see any reason as to saying that they're inferior just because of where they are made.

If you read my original post again you'll see all I stated was the metals are substandard which they are. I never said the speakers were inferior though if the metals affect the tone than they very well may be.

If your really like the new celestions be patient as the Chinese will be copying them for half of the price very soon as they have with so many other products.

 

[Qweklain]

I always love reading your posts moltenmetalburn, you always state your side in a very intelligent and "non-flaming" way, and usually have a lot of solid facts in your favor rather than "I am right, you are wrong" like most people in todays world. I am NOT being sarcastic BTW.

I like Eminence as well over Celestion, but both sound good to one or another, and I think both sound good in their own way depending on ones preference. I remember when I had a 2x12 combo DC-10 that I put Legend V128s in, and it sounded better in EVERY way over the Black Shadows that were in there. The Legends were slightly less focused in the mids, but dialing in more mids on the amp cured that minor difference.

These Alien Cabs REALLY got me GASing now. There is a Mills at my local Music'go'round and it sounds AWESOME, but after reading about the Port City cabs and now these... hmm...

 

[moltenmetalburn]

I always love reading your posts moltenmetalburn, you always state your side in a very intelligent and "non-flaming" way, and usually have a lot of solid facts in your favor rather than "I am right, you are wrong" like most people in todays world. I am NOT being sarcastic BTW.

I like Eminence as well over Celestion, but both sound good to one or another, and I think both sound good in their own way depending on ones preference. I remember when I had a 2x12 combo DC-10 that I put Legend V128s in, and it sounded better in EVERY way over the Black Shadows that were in there. The Legends were slightly less focused in the mids, but dialing in more mids on the amp cured that minor difference.

These Alien Cabs REALLY got me GASing now. There is a Mills at my local Music'go'round and it sounds AWESOME, but after reading about the Port City cabs and now these... hmm...

Well thanks for the compliments!
I try to think and discuss rather than "react".

Its funny I have a Port City that I love and I have still been GASing for a Mills 2x12. This damn disease

 

[Digital Jams]

Someone change the hepa filter to the air filter cause damn this room is caked in fairy dust.............................

I have china greenbacks and they are just fine thank you

 

[glip22]

I once had a 4x12 that was braced with that lowly crap chinese steel and it was a night and day difference between my American steel braced cab. :no
Those Aliens look cool.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

You callin me a fairy??



All jokes aside, If you guys haven't compared the speakers made of the different steels then you have no Idea if they sound fine or not in comparison.

What you're really saying is you don't care to see if there is a difference. Which is totally fine. This conversation started from a mention of substandard steel that another member queried, its not that I came in here trying to convince you all to melt down your speakers and make bullets out of em. (Greenbacks are perfect for Werewolf elimination. BTW)

As I have previously stated I am an audiophile and I do take every aspect of my sound into the most minute detail possible. Its also easy for me to hear the difference I have been training my ear to pick up extremely subtle nuances for years.

I also prefer to buy products of the highest quality AND I prefer to buy American when I can without sacrificing quality.

( mostly thanks to an audiophile Mastering engineer friend of mine who has mastered at least half of my CD collection at a major mastering house in the US. He spent years teaching me to be able to hear individual frequencies and how they affect sound as a whole. He has been my Mentor of sorts in this obsession of mine. he wears earplugs all day long to protect his hearing!!! I haven't been to a gig, played a gig or a practice without earplugs in ten years.)

Are you guys aware that the steel frame causes a small notch in the frequency response of a speaker around the 2-5k mark. a small notch is created in the response secondary to sound coming off of the back of the speaker and I believe phase canceling when directed back at the speaker after bouncing off of the metal. Small pieces of foam attached to the four or so frame "legs" of the speaker can easily solve this. Knowing that the reflective qualities of the metals could be different secondary to density I'd say it not too zealous to think that they could be affecting tone.



At one time had two mesa Recitfier cabinets, one was my original with the English V30s and one was a newer Chinese model. I never understood why the newer model never sounded as good when A/B against the other cab after the speakers were well broken in. the only difference in the two cabs was the manufacture location of the speakers.

I'm not saying it WAS the metal but something was amiss, enough so that I sold the newer cab for about half of what I paid. The English cab was sold when I got my Port City and I actually sold it for only 200 less than I paid for it nine years earlier. I advertised it as English speakers and someone else out there knew they sounded different for whatever reason also. In fact there was far more interest in that one than the previous.

I'd love for someone to actually scientifically compare the two but I doubt that will ever happen.

 

[AmpliFIRE]

The problem is that I've hated every Eminence loaded cab that I've ever heard/owned. Sure, they're Made in America and they have a comprehensive product line....so I figured why not try them out? I've owned 5 or so cabs with their speakers (Legend's, Private Jacks, Gov's, MOW's to name a few) and really disliked every one. They all had a harshness that couldn't be dialed out...to my ears anyway.


At the end of the day, it comes down to tone for me...not where a speaker is made.


The Chinese Celestions that I've heard sounded great in comparison. Maybe I'm just a Celestion fanboi?

 

[droptrd]

Since this thread is already hijacked...

I bought 2nd 1960B that was loaded with TEXAS HEATS. Hated it. Complete garbage IMO when compared to my original 1960B with T75's.

However, There is a guy around town that has a 1960V with V30's X Swamp Thangs. It sounds pretty good.