ARGH! Volume goes up, tone goes down!

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metalowns101

metalowns101

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hey all,

I know ive posted about this problem before, but I kinda need a definite answer on this.

I've just been playing through my DSL 50 at a low volume as always (people about, can't turn it up much! :aww: ). However, I had a small chance to turn it slightly up. I've never really been 100% happy with the tone of my dsl, it's still running stock tubes all the way through, and after two years they have never been changed (apart from the power amp tubes, once).

So, I turned up (only to around 2 or so) and it sounded like complete monkey ass. I have farted better tones than this. Granted, im only using a stock G400 SG at this point, but it still sounds a wee bit crappy. Even with the tone controls set like this -

presence - 0
treble - 0
mid - 4
bass - 4

It still sounds very harsh and brittle. The thing that really frustrates me is that I know for a fact that there are great tones on here. Which brings me to my point -

What the hell am I doing wrong??

I've compiled a list of what it could be.

G U I T A R

Am I simply not running a decent enough guitar through this marshall? My best guitar is an epiphone les paul, with a dimarzio tone zone in the bridge position which does sound quite a bit better than the SG, but still no where near perfect, especially when sitting in front of the cab.

B I A S

The last time the Bias was set must be nearly a year ago now. I think I set it to 38, but that could be anything by now. I think this might be the most likely culprit, along with...

T U B E S

How much better does a DSL get with a decent re - tube? As I mentioned before, the tubes havent been changed in a long while, which leads me to believe this might be the major problem.

S P E A K E R C A B

This did cross my mind. I have heard that vintage 30's really dont work with this amp for classic rock/heavy rock, and that I am much better off with a Greenback cab. However, in other accounts i've heard it's great.

C A B L E S

Now, I realise this is a long shot, but i'm still using the original marshall speaker cable with the amp. Could this be the problem? Am I putting a piece of shit between a great head and a great cab?


That's all I can really think of right now. I don't mind spending money to make things right, but I really can't spend too much as I simply can't afford it.


So, what do you guys think? I'm sorry I continually trouble you lot with this, and it must be getting on your nerves by now, but this is the final thread on this amp, unless it sounds awesome and clips are made! :lol: :LOL:

Cheers, RT, your always a big help :thumbsup:
 
I know exactly what you're talking about. I've owned 3 DSL100's. They are bright, and yes, as you turn them up, they sound harsher. The best thing you can do is change the speakers. Well broken in Greenbacks, work great for warming up any amp. The lower wattage and voicing give them a chewy feel. When they're new, they're bright, but once they break in they sound great. A thin layer of batting applied to the cabinet back also helps, and make sure the cab is on the floor. No casters. Tubes can help a little. An RFT in V1, and some Winged-C power tubes, will warm it up, but only slightly. Overall, you may just not jive with the voicing of the amp. Lot's of people get great tones from them, but overall I moved on to an XTC. I did gig with a DSL for a year or so, and in a club it sounded much better. Crowded clubs absorb a lot of treble. That amp did help me discover, that the only speakers I use are GB's or if I need higher wattage, G12-65's (which sound very similar to GB's).
 
Thanks alot dude! real helpfull :thumbsup:

it's really annoying me as I have had some great tones out of this amp before, I can't afford a new cab.

I think I just need to get a decent plank of wood going through a biased and revalved beast.

So obviously a revalve is on the cards, and maybe a bias up to 42?
 
dude its kinda obvious you need new tubes first before considering new speakers etc.
 
I'm sure that I will get flamed for saying this, but I have always felt that the JCM900 sounded better that the DSL. And I'm talking about the 4100, not the SLX. I've owned three DSL100s, and just couldn't get on with any of them. I've heard others make them sing, but I just can't do it. Now give me a 900 4100 and a good EQ pedal out front, and I can give you any tone you want. I may have to look for another 900 soon. :)
 
A bias of 38 sounds really low to me, I found every time I played a brittle DSL a re biase helped.
Plus I dont really like marshall stock tubes.
 
Retube/Bias and new pre tubes will help. Mainly in the V1 position. Swap a whole bunch of 12ax7's in that spot and listen carefully to each one. Even same brand and same type can sound drastically different. I had to go through about 5 or 6 to find one i liked for my Boogie MKIII V1 position.

if thats still no good.. sell the V30's and look into either Greenbacks/G12-65's/G12H-30's! I never liked V30's all that much and a few other guys here dont either. I have heard people sound killer with them, but for ME personally they never quite did it.

Also FWIW.. i absolutely hate the Tonezone. Every guitar i tried with that pickup through my rigs sounded like ass. Made the entire rig sound loose, mushy and kinda fuzzy on the top end. I swapped over to the Suhr Aldrich pickup in the bridge and it was honestly a night and day difference. Clarity, warmth, punch, enough bite, no fuzz etc!

I hope this helps mate :thumbsup:
 
Also, just out of curiosity.. turn the cab around facing away from you and try playing the amp..

My Cameron was sounding a bit bright in the room i was playing in this weekend, and i just couldnt dial out the treble and harshness i was hearing. When i turned the cab away from me, instantly the tone came back and sounded absolutely killer.

Sometimes you'l find that when you're stood infront of the direction of the sound coming from your cab, you may find that it sounds bright or harsh. Slash is one of many guys who has mentioned time and time again, how he cant bare standing directly infront of his rig while playing.. as it sounds harsher and throws out frequencies which arent so nice to the ears.
 
I think Dan666 is right, I too, have had bad luck with tonezones, if your plugging straight into the amp, thats probably not your best choice. If its been awhile, I would retube, and rebias, but I would get away from that pup. yngzaklynch has some DSL setups he seems to be happy with, you might ask him what he's using. To be honest, I dont have anything that I love past half volume, and I have a bunch of stuff that I hear people say sounds better at full volume, but I never thought it did. Things start getting flubby, and there seems to be a gain loss, and I for sure have to make tone control changes to deal with it. It's not limited to my marshalls, my dual-recs are even worse. They have all been serviced and checked and retubed, and I still dont like them past 1 o'clock max. It seems to be the nature of the beast. Also {Dan666} I cant stand being directly in front of 412 cabs, even at lower volumes. The wierd thing is, when recording, the mikes directly on the cabs sound best. I think there is a balance between finding settings that work at your live volume, and not pushing the amp past that point. Most of the time, your bandmates dont want you at full volume anyway. My DSL sounds great up to half volume, so there may be a tube and-or bias problem, or that pup. Happy hunting ! -Jim
 
JTyson":1yf4gt9l said:
Also {Dan666} I cant stand being directly in front of 412 cabs, even at lower volumes. The wierd thing is, when recording, the mikes directly on the cabs sound best.
Click to expand...

Hey Jim, yeah i agree its weird how cabs dont sound great when stood infront of em.. yet when mic'd up that way they sound great!!

My friend Darren (Darrcooper), said exactly the same thing about not loving the sound of being infront of the cab.. and sometimes he turns the cab around too so its facing away, with great results.
 
woah, thought this thread had died!

Cheers fellas!!!! :lol: :LOL: ;)

I'll have to check some stuff out, getting my hands on a meter tomorrow, so I will let you know how it goes.

It's weird really, Ive liked the tone zone so far, and hate the stock pickups in my G400 SG. Vast improvement IMO. Then again, im playing black stone cherry style stuff at the moment so maybe the fuzzy/mushy tone is what im enjoying (in a way).

Hell, maybe a pickup change is in order, or a les paul classic antique/traditional? hmmm..... :rock:
 
metalowns101":28reascj said:
woah, thought this thread had died!

Cheers fellas!!!! :lol: :LOL: ;)

I'll have to check some stuff out, getting my hands on a meter tomorrow, so I will let you know how it goes.

It's weird really, Ive liked the tone zone so far, and hate the stock pickups in my G400 SG. Vast improvement IMO. Then again, im playing black stone cherry style stuff at the moment so maybe the fuzzy/mushy tone is what im enjoying (in a way).

Hell, maybe a pickup change is in order, or a les paul classic antique/traditional? hmmm..... :rock:
Click to expand...
Well, it may be the tnzn pups are working for you, and you just need to get the amp squared away. I have a box FULL of pups I hate, so I may be giving you bad info on that! Everyone could use a good LP, if they find one they can bond with. I can't seem to find just the right one, but I'm always looking-Jim
 
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