Axe-FX II or Kemper?

[polaris20]

What surprises me is that it seems a lot of people go back to tube heads, but don't think to check out the Torpedo Live. It seems like it's a really great middle ground between a total digital rig, and keeping the tube head you love, but making recording easier. I could even see running it live (hence the name, I'm sure) with a cabinet, but instead of a mic, using that.

I think Axes and Kempers are both amazing devices, but when it comes down to it, I like maybe three amps, and 3-4 pedals, and that's it. Maybe it's a psychological barrier for me, but it just seems like a waste to have these insane boxes that do a million different things, if I'm never going to use even 10% of it.

 

[gibson5413]

What surprises me is that it seems a lot of people go back to tube heads, but don't think to check out the Torpedo Live. It seems like it's a really great middle ground between a total digital rig, and keeping the tube head you love, but making recording easier. I could even see running it live (hence the name, I'm sure) with a cabinet, but instead of a mic, using that.

I think Axes and Kempers are both amazing devices, but when it comes down to it, I like maybe three amps, and 3-4 pedals, and that's it. Maybe it's a psychological barrier for me, but it just seems like a waste to have these insane boxes that do a million different things, if I'm never going to use even 10% of it.

I know what you are saying. I used to think of it in that way too. I don't need to use 100% (or even 50%) of what it does to get everything I need from it. My old Mark IV had tons of features and functions and I only used maybe 30% of its potential. I can say the same thing about many of the amps I owned or used over the years. The only time I tweaked more than played is when I owned the Line 6 Vetta. I would attribute that to the fact that I couldn't make it sound good for my own purposes. I have about 35 porfiles in my Favorites folder and spend about 95% of my time on 8 of them. It sounds so good that I play all the time and don't have to think about tweaking. When I get the urge to try a different sound or amp that I know I would never want to own, I can with this kind of box (KPA).

I see a lot of guys that flip amps over and over trying to find the one or two good tones they need. I believe there are only a very select few who have broken even on the amount of money spent doing this. I guess you can say the same about any of the solutions out there (digital or tubes). Ultimately, find what you like. The older I get the less I care about chasing the ultimate tone machine. I sound pretty much the same through everything I play (from a style perspective). So many of us are inexperienced that our opinions at this point in time can be way too absolute. I don't think a lot of players stay with any one amp long enough to give them a chance.

Oh well, no one really cares what I have to say either way. I just like to play guitar. Someday I will own another tube amp but not with the intent of replacing the KPA. I think there is value in both. I know he gets sick of me saying it and not doing it but I want a Henning Cherry Bomb so bad!

 

[Bob Savage]

What surprises me is that it seems a lot of people go back to tube heads, but don't think to check out the Torpedo Live. It seems like it's a really great middle ground between a total digital rig, and keeping the tube head you love, but making recording easier. I could even see running it live (hence the name, I'm sure) with a cabinet, but instead of a mic, using that.

I think Axes and Kempers are both amazing devices, but when it comes down to it, I like maybe three amps, and 3-4 pedals, and that's it. Maybe it's a psychological barrier for me, but it just seems like a waste to have these insane boxes that do a million different things, if I'm never going to use even 10% of it.

I still have tube heads so I won't need to go back to them, they'll remain tools in my toolbox.

There's really little if any difference between someone spending $2k+ on an amp that does a thousand things and using only 5 or so sounds and someone spending the same on a 1, 2 or 3 channel amp. Not sure why someone would need to use every possible feature and tone in an amp for it to make sense. I certainly don't use every possible variation on the tube amps I own.

 

[lessthan12]

I can only comment on the axe fx II. I've bought and sold it…twice lol. Last time I sold it was a few weeks after the big firmware 10 came out. As someone else pointed out, for home studio recording it really doesn't get any better. With the axe edit program(working properly) getting tones and building your own presets was very easy. Again, playing in my little music nook through my genelecs and recording it was astounding how good it sounded. I ended up selling it after playing with a buddy of mine. We ran it through his pa( high end mackie that at his bandmates home studio) and after 3 hours of tweaking I just couldn't get it to sound right. Granted I could have kept it and tweaked a couple days and see where it went but I ended up going back to glass. My next purchase will be a two notes live and see how that works running a 5150 III through it.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Yes I settled into a few tones on kpa
But there's lots I have marked for later that I know will inspire new material
For example, there's a free vintage pack that has some amps from the 40s & 50s- real character!

 

[Bob Savage]

For example, there's a free vintage pack that has some amps from the 40s & 50s- real character!

See, that is very cool! Once I land that high paying gig doing music for commercials and such, this kind of stuff will come in really handy.

 

[polaris20]

What surprises me is that it seems a lot of people go back to tube heads, but don't think to check out the Torpedo Live. It seems like it's a really great middle ground between a total digital rig, and keeping the tube head you love, but making recording easier. I could even see running it live (hence the name, I'm sure) with a cabinet, but instead of a mic, using that.

I think Axes and Kempers are both amazing devices, but when it comes down to it, I like maybe three amps, and 3-4 pedals, and that's it. Maybe it's a psychological barrier for me, but it just seems like a waste to have these insane boxes that do a million different things, if I'm never going to use even 10% of it.

I still have tube heads so I won't need to go back to them, they'll remain tools in my toolbox.

There's really little if any difference between someone spending $2k+ on an amp that does a thousand things and using only 5 or so sounds and someone spending the same on a 1, 2 or 3 channel amp. Not sure why someone would need to use every possible feature and tone in an amp for it to make sense. I certainly don't use every possible variation on the tube amps I own.

Makes sense. Like I said, probably just a psychological barrier for me. That and I have a concern that I'm going to drop $2K on something, and it'll be obsolete next year.

 

[Bob Savage]

Makes sense. Like I said, probably just a psychological barrier for me. That and I have a concern that I'm going to drop $2K on something, and it'll be obsolete next year.

Understood, we all have them. I'd say the concern of obsolescence is more valid, however, just like a computer, it's only obsolete when it no longer serves the purpose for which you bought it. Doesn't matter what the latest and greatest is as long as the tool still does the job. That said, since these are effectively computers in a sense, they do lose significant value once the next generation gets released.

The way I look at it is if it inspires me to write and record for a year or more, it was well worth it.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

For example, there's a free vintage pack that has some amps from the 40s & 50s- real character!

See, that is very cool! Once I land that high paying gig doing music for commercials and such, this kind of stuff will come in really handy.

I wanted to find that pack- there are 2:

http://forgotten-amps.weebly.com/
https://soundcloud.com/sound-music-soni ... oli-ilovia

Under Kemper rig Packs Dec 2013 there is a free set that has a bunch of old stuff, including that 1946 amp that I love:
1946 Ampro Chicago with Jensen C12 and external Ampro cab with 12” Cream Alnico speaker
1959 Gibson Skylark GA 5T with stock speaker
1964 Fender Blackface Bandmaster with 2x12” Fender cab with stock speakers
1977 Fender Silverface Champ with 8” stock speaker
1978 Fender Silverface Vibrochamp with 8” stock speaker
2007 Vox AC 30 Handwired Anniversary with 2x12” Vox cab with Blue Bulldog speakers
2007 Real Guitars (Ceriatone) 18W Marshall Bluesbreaker clone

 

[shred-o-holic]

Spent weeks with them both and went Kemper. Nearly 2 years later I gas not for an Axe II. And this is coming from a 3 year Axe Standard user. I used to love my Standard. The Kemper grew on me so fast and still gratifies. If you can try both though why knot?

 

[stratotone]

I'm late to the party again, had my Kemper for right at two years now. Still the best gear related purchase I have made in a long time. Couple random things that may or may have not been discussed:

When you profile an amp, you can compare the kemper's profile with the actual amp right then and there. If it doesn't match, you'll know it immediately. This is a huge plus to me - the amps in the Kemper sound like what you're feeding them. It can make for some bad profiles sure, but you can also find some excellent ones too. Had a friend come over last week, huge tube amp guy - brought a sweet GT Soul-O amp. We miked it up in my main room, ran it through the monitors, he agreed it sounded good. Ran a kemper profile, compared them on the spot - and let him play while I switched back and forth. He's owned this amp since 2006, got it right once out of three tries regarding which was his amp - including rolling the volume back, changing pickups, etc. Told me afterwards he was totally guessing.

I was an early adopter of the 'direct output' profile stuff. My personal findings is that a tube amp still sounds better than solid state for the kemper when you amplify it through a guitar cab. On that basis alone I'd personally pass on a built in power amp solution unless you weren't going to use it often. I took my '72 Marshall, took a line out from a hot plate and profiled with it. Then I took an A/B box and one side was Kemper - poweramp (rocktron velocity solid state) - 72 marshall slant cab. Other side was 72 Marshall - 72 marshall straight cab. The Kemper sounded fine until I clicked to the marshall. It sounded better. I replaced the velocity solid state amp with a Randall 2/50 tube amp, tried it again, was able to adjust the presence and depth a hair and they matched much better - I wouldn't have been able to tell at that point. Maybe the Kemper power amp is full of magical goodness, but it's more than just making something loud IMHO. I've done the solid state amp with tube preamp thing before, it doesn't seem to do as well either, ya know?

I also don't get how the Axe II guys talk about how they make their presets from scratch. They still need to choose an amp emulation and then tweak it - which is the same thing the Kemper guys do. Difference is, I may go onto the Kemper website and see a new amp posted there that has only been out a few days. For the Axe guys to get it, they need to send one to Cliff or hope he has access to one, he has to create the behind the scenes stuff that makes an amp in the axe fx world, and then release it via a firmware update.

And if you are a tweaker, you can take an amp and twist the hell out of it. The EQ not being the same as the host amp never bothered me, because the Kemper has several different EQs and you can place them post or pre amplifier PLUS the amplifier tone controls, which as of the latest firmware is also able to be placed early or late in the amp's topology.

Here are a few of my weird clips of the kemper - when it's a backing track with guitar, the backing had zero guitar. You're hearing all kemper, all the time for better or for worse. Put some stuff in here that's not quite as metal/hard rock as most of the Kemper clips are just for some contrast.

https://soundcloud.com/okstrat/point-of-know-return (I did all the tracks on this, midi drums with SSD, bass and all guitars were kemper)

https://soundcloud.com/okstrat/02-sympt ... e-universe (live, first gig I played with the Kemper, had it less than a week)

https://soundcloud.com/okstrat/room-335-fuchs

https://soundcloud.com/okstrat/purple-haze-kemper

 

[shred-o-holic]

BTW I just saw Fear Factory and Dino Cazares was using a Kemper. It sounded amazing. Not that Bob gives a crap about Fear Factory but just thought I would add extra worthlessness to this thread.

 

[Bob Savage]

Spent weeks with them both and went Kemper. Nearly 2 years later I gas not for an Axe II. And this is coming from a 3 year Axe Standard user. I used to love my Standard. The Kemper grew on me so fast and still gratifies. If you can try both though why knot?

Nah, I'm definitely going Kemper.

I was an early adopter of the 'direct output' profile stuff. My personal findings is that a tube amp still sounds better than solid state for the kemper when you amplify it through a guitar cab. On that basis alone I'd personally pass on a built in power amp solution unless you weren't going to use it often. I took my '72 Marshall, took a line out from a hot plate and profiled with it. Then I took an A/B box and one side was Kemper - poweramp (rocktron velocity solid state) - 72 marshall slant cab. Other side was 72 Marshall - 72 marshall straight cab. The Kemper sounded fine until I clicked to the marshall. It sounded better. I replaced the velocity solid state amp with a Randall 2/50 tube amp, tried it again, was able to adjust the presence and depth a hair and they matched much better - I wouldn't have been able to tell at that point. Maybe the Kemper power amp is full of magical goodness, but it's more than just making something loud IMHO. I've done the solid state amp with tube preamp thing before, it doesn't seem to do as well either, ya know?

Well crapola Pete. That throws a wrench into it for a couple reasons. First I like the idea of not having a heavy tube amp in a rack. Second, it seems the PowerRack is in stock just about everywhere and the Rack isn't (and I'm impatient).

What I was thinking is to build a cab that's 4x12 size with a couple FRFR speakers up top. The large cab would be mostly so the Kemper would be easy to access while standing.

Urg...

BTW I just saw Fear Factory and Dino Cazares was using a Kemper. It sounded amazing. Not that Bob gives a crap about Fear Factory but just thought I would add extra worthlessness to this thread.

Doesn't matter who it is. Amazing guitar tones are a good thing.

 

[stratotone]

I was an early adopter of the 'direct output' profile stuff. My personal findings is that a tube amp still sounds better than solid state for the kemper when you amplify it through a guitar cab. On that basis alone I'd personally pass on a built in power amp solution unless you weren't going to use it often. I took my '72 Marshall, took a line out from a hot plate and profiled with it. Then I took an A/B box and one side was Kemper - poweramp (rocktron velocity solid state) - 72 marshall slant cab. Other side was 72 Marshall - 72 marshall straight cab. The Kemper sounded fine until I clicked to the marshall. It sounded better. I replaced the velocity solid state amp with a Randall 2/50 tube amp, tried it again, was able to adjust the presence and depth a hair and they matched much better - I wouldn't have been able to tell at that point. Maybe the Kemper power amp is full of magical goodness, but it's more than just making something loud IMHO. I've done the solid state amp with tube preamp thing before, it doesn't seem to do as well either, ya know?

Well crapola Pete. That throws a wrench into it for a couple reasons. First I like the idea of not having a heavy tube amp in a rack. Second, it seems the PowerRack is in stock just about everywhere and the Rack isn't (and I'm impatient).

What I was thinking is to build a cab that's 4x12 size with a couple FRFR speakers up top. The large cab would be mostly so the Kemper would be easy to access while standing.
[/quote]

Sorry to throw a wrench in there, just wanted to let you know what I found personally. Then again, I haven't tried the built in power amp. Might be worth checking into on the Kemper forum and see what they think. I was comparing the built in power amp with an older solid state, there may be a huge difference in sound quality, and/or they may 'tweak' the power amps' response for the Kemper.

Then again, what the heck do I know, I play gigs with a powered monitor and don't even use a cab onstage. I let the PA do all the heavy lifting and sound guys love me because I don't have a speaker cab blasting the patrons in the first few rows.

 

[stratotone]

Video I did a few months ago - Soldano and profile I pulled of it, same cab, didn't quite get the same volume which I know throws off perception, but fairly close IMHO for a cheap solid state amp.

Just muddying the waters further

 

[Bob Savage]

Sorry to throw a wrench in there, just wanted to let you know what I found personally. Then again, I haven't tried the built in power amp. Might be worth checking into on the Kemper forum and see what they think. I was comparing the built in power amp with an older solid state, there may be a huge difference in sound quality, and/or they may 'tweak' the power amps' response for the Kemper.

Then again, what the heck do I know, I play gigs with a powered monitor and don't even use a cab onstage. I let the PA do all the heavy lifting and sound guys love me because I don't have a speaker cab blasting the patrons in the first few rows.

No worries. I think I still may go with the power rack and figure out the cab later.

If I find myself doing anything live again, going direct like you are sounds great to me.

 

[Bob Savage]

Video I did a few months ago - Soldano and profile I pulled of it, same cab, didn't quite get the same volume which I know throws off perception, but fairly close IMHO for a cheap solid state amp.

Just muddying the waters further

Compressed video, room miced... But still sounds pretty close. Think I'm sticking with plan A and grabbing the power rack.

Quit trying to confuse me!

 

[dallasb]

I've had the KPA for about a year now. Very cool and more authentic sounding than the AXE2. Me and a few others especially our other guitarist (A2) seem to always compare. He is stuck on the "but the new firmware" for his A2. KPA just does one thing well. That is sound as damn close to an amp and cabinet as possible. Sorry, but the A2 for all it has still sounds synthetic to me. I'd buy one if it didn't. I have an Ultra anyway.

The money spent on this digital gear is crazy. Then add that couple thousand in IRs, special FR powered speakers, Controller. Serious price of admission. In three years all that might be worth 50%. Not near as dramatic a neg return on tube amps. I paid $800 for a V3 4 years ago and just sold it for $625.

My Ultra might go for $1150 If I am lucky. I paid way more for the damn thing 2 1/2 years ago. KPA I got for a good deal on the JR special. I could sell it for more today at current toaster prices.

Some like amp modeling with more effects. I prefer basic effects and more realistic sounding amp tones and dynamic. A2 just doesn't get there. After hearing Metallica with the Axe they need to go back to Randalls and Deizel.

 

[shred-o-holic]

The other interesting thing at least in my perspective is that while there are tons and tons of great profiles. My still personal go to is one I did myself with one of my amps. Makes me really want to abuse GC/Sam Ash 's return policies lol. One of my local GC has an Engl Powerball 2 that I'm thinking about buying wink wink..

 

[Jofipe]

Don't have the patience or interest to read all these posts through. I owned the AFXII.. I now own a Kemper.
Kemper is a step up in sound and feel compared to the Axe. Kemper is more 3D and thick.... the effects are GREAT, and has additional stuff like thats just allot smarter than the Axe. Axe sounded colder and more digital....

There is no shortcomings in the Kemper... it also now comes with the awesome sounding B&O Icepower amp. Enough power to make the walls shake, while it stays clear. Great product.