Axe FX users question and opinion

[thenine]

Kemper aliases, pfffft. Unusable in my book.


what is meant by this???

 

[Shask]

Yes, the II is better. I had the Standard and upgraded to the II.

I think when the II first came out there wasnt a huge difference between it and the Ultra, and that is why you hear people say the difference isnt that large. They tried it when it was new. The II is up to Version 11 now, and the improvements since the early days has been dramatic.

Agreed. And personally I'll go outside the norm and say it's less the Axe-II's developments that are killing it, than it is the development of outstanding IRs (Impulse Responses - the things that sound like cabs but are just algorithmic models within the Axe-II). These are getting designed and developed my some outstanding science with awesome ears The "FF" or "Far Field" stuff is getting awesome - really starting to hit home as to that "amp in the room" sound. Which has been one of the toughest things to duplicate for people weening off of analog heads... Recording artists, giggers, etc love the Axe-II as it's consistency and flexibility 100% of the way. But noodling at home in the early stages missed that "in the room" feel.

It's practically there now with good FRFR monitors (Atomic active CLRs for the win trust me, just buy 1 or 2 and forget about the rest) and the IRs included in the firmware upgrades as well as companies like OwnHammer, etc.

It is the modeling also. I use the Axe II all the time into a poweramp and guitar cab with no IR's, and the difference is still amazing.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Kemper aliases, pfffft. Unusable in my book.


what is meant by this???

the Kemper has been measured for aliasing and is shown to alias between if my memory serves me correctly 7k to 11k, basically in the upper end of the spectrum.

Axe fx 2 and digidesign 11 rack have NONE within human hearing limits.

line 6 has a ton , its the noise or hash that seems to sit above the tone.

What does aliasing sound like ?

simply unrelated harmonic content. unrelated to the fundamental notes. In extreme situations it's like
noise, but it can be anything, even a ringmodulator kind of sound.

to me its one of those things that once you can identify it you ALWAYS hear it, like voices in your head .

 

[thenine]

thanks!

 

[university81]

Kemper aliases, pfffft. Unusable in my book.


what is meant by this???

the Kemper has been measured for aliasing and is shown to alias between if my memory serves me correctly 7k to 11k, basically in the upper end of the spectrum.

Axe fx 2 and digidesign 11 rack have NONE.

line 6 has a ton , its the noise or hash that seems to sit above the tone.

What does aliasing sound like ?

simply unrelated harmonic content. unrelated to the fundamental notes. In extreme situations it's like
noise, but it can be anything, even a ringmodulator kind of sound.

to me its one of those things that once you can identify it you ALWAYS hear it, like voices in your head .

this is interesting, on paper seems like the end all argument in the KPA vs Axe debate, by this logic the elevenrack is then on a similar level as the axe fx? (i know this isn't the case

did some looking around:

http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index. ... eadID=7447

good quote:
"
IME, the Kemper reacts more like one would expect an analog system to sound than what I would expect digital aliasing to sound. I'm not saying CK and crew have created a absolutely perfect product, but be careful what you ask for. Let's hold the Kemper up against real world examples of what real amps sound like versus a perfected ideal.
"

to the OP , from what i've tried the axe fx II was superior to me in many ways to the standard i had, good from the get go, not to much tweaking to be done , better connectability (USB port etc..) and a better investment for the future

keep in mind getting FRFR system..controller will be extra added costs should you want to go down that route

 

[hoss33]

by this logic the elevenrack is then on a similar level as the axe fx? (i know this isn't the case

I had an Eleven Rack, too. All I want to ad is, that the Plexi in the 11R is one of the best modelled plexis I have ever heard, if not the best. It even has the ghost notes.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Kemper aliases, pfffft. Unusable in my book.


what is meant by this???

the Kemper has been measured for aliasing and is shown to alias between if my memory serves me correctly 7k to 11k, basically in the upper end of the spectrum.

Axe fx 2 and digidesign 11 rack have NONE.

line 6 has a ton , its the noise or hash that seems to sit above the tone.

What does aliasing sound like ?

simply unrelated harmonic content. unrelated to the fundamental notes. In extreme situations it's like
noise, but it can be anything, even a ringmodulator kind of sound.

to me its one of those things that once you can identify it you ALWAYS hear it, like voices in your head .

this is interesting, on paper seems like the end all argument in the KPA vs Axe debate, by this logic the elevenrack is then on a similar level as the axe fx? (i know this isn't the case

did some looking around:

http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index. ... eadID=7447

good quote:
"
IME, the Kemper reacts more like one would expect an analog system to sound than what I would expect digital aliasing to sound. I'm not saying CK and crew have created a absolutely perfect product, but be careful what you ask for. Let's hold the Kemper up against real world examples of what real amps sound like versus a perfected ideal.
"

to the OP , from what i've tried the axe fx II was superior to me in many ways to the standard i had, good from the get go, not to much tweaking to be done , better connectability (USB port etc..) and a better investment for the future

keep in mind getting FRFR system..controller will be extra added costs should you want to go down that route

that quote above makes no sense. analog amplifiers DO NOT alias.

Sure they can reveal harmonics but those harmonics will be multiples of the fundamental notes being played.

what he does not understand is that because they are NOT related to the fundamentals they can be other pitches that dont correlate, just straight up noise , ring modulation, etc...
NO analog system does this.

that quote just proves he doesnt understand what hes talking about.

id be more interested in quotes like these taken from the same page at kemper you linked:

"in a lot of distorted profiles I get a high pitch sizzeling sound (around 9.5 to 10kHz) that, according to my logic channel EQ analyzer, shouldn´t even be there."

"It seems worse through headphones and I can really hear it when I drag my hands across the fretboard on high gain models."

"aliasing (in this case i think the correct term is actually imaging) can be described as frequencies above 1/2 sample rate (the nyquist frequency) reflecting downward off of this limit. this is what makes them obvious to me in the kemper, since the artifacts move in the opposite direction of pitch, so bends up have downward-moving artifacts. these come out quite strongly with the use of feedback. i have never ever heard anything remotely like this in any real tube amp. if you don't use string feedback, try an ebow, it exposes the problem quite easily on medium gain settings. once you identify it, you will begin to hear it in less obvious settings... if not, ignorance is bliss..."

"Here's an actual example of digital aliasing in the extreme. Note that the resultant artifact is atonal, almost sounding like a ring modulator. http://www.sic.rma.ac.be/~xne/el401/aliasing/"

"I experience this too. A lot of us have. It is not the same as cone cry or ghost notes. It's definitely in there. I find it's particularly apparent when bending more than one string, or bending one note against another static note. And, it is more prominent with gain. Some profiles are better than others. There may be a need to work that out in the profile refining process."

"I just finished thoroughly profiling 7 different amps (the profiles sound great overall), though every profile exhibits an aliasing artifact on high single notes in the moderately-high to high gain range that is absolutely not there in the amps themselves. "

I believe once the V2 kemper stuff is out they will have solved this and THEN it really will be only about which suits your needs better. as for right now AXE FX 2 no contest. if on a budget digidesign 11 rack as even the Axe ultra aliases which is why i didnt like my ultra i suppose and went back to tubes for a while.

 

[GuitarGuyLP]

Two quick points to add. I had an Axe fx standard, and I found that I would play with the settings more than I played my guitar, that is something to watch out for. Because of that I went back to a real amp, but the sounds with some good IRs is killer!!!

Another thing, I saw Trivium last night, and they use Axe FX (not sure which version) direct in, and it was cool seeing the stage with no amps on it, and it sounded great.

 

[Ventura]

Axe-II is a stellar piece of kit.

And for what it's worth - I really tried to hate it... I did. But it's just top of its class when it comes to what it can do. Match it with a good set of FRFRs and you'll never look back - just as I'd mentioned a few posts above.

Peace

 

[bmi]

No the Axe II is an evolution not a revolution.
I was able to copy the tone posted on fractal forum every time i tried with my Ultra. I failed one time for a Mesa Mark IIc but i think that the tone i've got was more close to the tone of the youtube's video i found on the net.
My 2 cts...

 

[university81]

that quote above makes no sense. analog amplifiers DO NOT alias.

Sure they can reveal harmonics but those harmonics will be multiples of the fundamental notes being played.

what he does not understand is that because they are NOT related to the fundamentals they can be other pitches that dont correlate, just straight up noise , ring modulation, etc...
NO analog system does this.

that quote just proves he doesnt understand what hes talking about.

id be more interested in quotes like these taken from the same page at kemper you linked:

"in a lot of distorted profiles I get a high pitch sizzeling sound (around 9.5 to 10kHz) that, according to my logic channel EQ analyzer, shouldn´t even be there."

"It seems worse through headphones and I can really hear it when I drag my hands across the fretboard on high gain models."

"aliasing (in this case i think the correct term is actually imaging) can be described as frequencies above 1/2 sample rate (the nyquist frequency) reflecting downward off of this limit. this is what makes them obvious to me in the kemper, since the artifacts move in the opposite direction of pitch, so bends up have downward-moving artifacts. these come out quite strongly with the use of feedback. i have never ever heard anything remotely like this in any real tube amp. if you don't use string feedback, try an ebow, it exposes the problem quite easily on medium gain settings. once you identify it, you will begin to hear it in less obvious settings... if not, ignorance is bliss..."

"Here's an actual example of digital aliasing in the extreme. Note that the resultant artifact is atonal, almost sounding like a ring modulator. http://www.sic.rma.ac.be/~xne/el401/aliasing/"

"I experience this too. A lot of us have. It is not the same as cone cry or ghost notes. It's definitely in there. I find it's particularly apparent when bending more than one string, or bending one note against another static note. And, it is more prominent with gain. Some profiles are better than others. There may be a need to work that out in the profile refining process."

"I just finished thoroughly profiling 7 different amps (the profiles sound great overall), though every profile exhibits an aliasing artifact on high single notes in the moderately-high to high gain range that is absolutely not there in the amps themselves. "

I believe once the V2 kemper stuff is out they will have solved this and THEN it really will be only about which suits your needs better. as for right now AXE FX 2 no contest. if on a budget digidesign 11 rack as even the Axe ultra aliases which is why i didnt like my ultra i suppose and went back to tubes for a while.

it's interesting in any case, something i wasn't really aware of with the KPA,
either way have heard stellar tones from both boxes