Backing tracks for live performance bashing

[Man With Gas]

Just to add a little more in support of using keyboard/percussion backing tracks only. (not extra guitars and voices etc..)

The club and the audience 99.9% of the time pay NO attention to guitarists or the rest of the band.
It's the lead vocalist who gets ALL the attention so everyone being precious about 100% live is kidding themselves about their self importance.

In this day and age trying to organize/co-ordinate more than 4 people in a band is almost impossible and let's not forget more people in a band cost more money which clubs don't want to pay for anymore.

A backing track keyboardist always turns up on time, doesn't want special treatment, actually learns the songs, doesn't play too loud onstage and doesn't take up valuable space on small stages.

Add to that when you're playing dance covers the tempo is consistent and you can actually get a groove happening that will stay in time and keep the audience on the dance floor. (they're happy and so is the club owner)

For those who think it's easy & cheating to play to backing tracks and still sound real give it a go as it's another
skill set that most don't have.

While the purists keeping bitching the others are working and keeping people entertained which at the end of the day is what it's all about isn't it.

A good musician with presence will shine in a 100% live band OR a band that uses backing tracks. If you feel threatened by backing tracks channel that energy into having a go with them instead of whining. Who knows you may change your mind but you won't know until you actually give it a go.

 

[Schaf]

Like em or not, pro tools tracks (backing tracks) are a way of life with the big acts. So, what should it matter if local bands want to use them too. I would be very confident in saying that there are hardy ANY touring acts (national acts who get airplay, etc) who DON'T use them in some capacity. Some use them more than others (Shinedown and Sevendust come to mind). A friend of mine runs FOH for the major club in my area (it's a 1200 capacity place), and he'll tell you that every band who comes thru has some pro tools tracks used in their performance - most commonly as backing vocals or additional instrumentation).

Van Halen is a rare example these days - their keys are played live backstage, and they don't use extra tracks for anything.

I know for awhile the offstage keyboard player for Van Halen was the guy from Night Ranger. You know, the dude who appeared in their videos about 1/10th as much time as the other members and wore shades and some sort of hat all the time.

I think the dudes name is Alan Fitzgerald. He use to play for Sammy before he joined Nightranger. But agree totally on what you are saying. Most of the touring acts are using way more stuff than most people would believe. And as I said before many use it just to fatten up the mix and make the mix more consistent from venue to venue. It is kind of disapointing to me since I found out many do this. But then again, It's harder to play with tracks than people think.

 

[ejecta]

Sent you a PM since I didn't want to clutter this thread.

 

[RockStarNick]

For most of the cover bands in my area, it's the norm.

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet in the bazillion posts above, but have you guys considered COST? Lots of the bands I know do it as a full time job. Would you rather split the cash 4 ways, or 5 ways? A backing track works for free, night after night.

What if only some of your songs need keyboard? Do you pay that dude to stand around half the night? Do you pay him less? Try finding a keyboard player who wants to join a band, to play on 1/3 of the songs, and stand around the rest of the time, for a fraction of your cut.

It really does depend on what type of music, and what bands, you're covering. But... there's so many logistics involved with adding that "other" member, that most times, a backing track just makes more sense.

OOPS! Just read Man with Gas's post... I basically said everything he already did.

 

[reverymike]

I believe Alan Fitzgerald did this last Van Halen tour as well.

 

[eljodon]

This is my live rig for live tracks. To the left is our monitor rack for in ears an ot also has a Motu hybird interface for the tracks, my in ear transmiter and a TC Helicon for my singers effects. He likes to switch his effects with another MIDI foot pedal. To the right on the floor you can see the Behringer MIDI foot pedal for track selection, start, stop function. On the right on top of my power amp/effects rack is my MacBook Pro.I wired all the stuff myself so we can save $$

 

[rlord1974]

When me and my singer decided to form a band we wanted to sound just like the bands that we wanted to cover. Many of the cover bands we see don't sound even close to he originals.

So? What's the problem with that? Why not do your own version of other people's songs?

Covers don't have to be exactly the same as the original, they just have to be good versions or alternate arrangements of the originals.

 

[eljodon]

When me and my singer decided to form a band we wanted to sound just like the bands that we wanted to cover. Many of the cover bands we see don't sound even close to he originals.

So? What's the problem with that? Why not do your own version of other people's songs?

Covers don't have to be exactly the same as the original, they just have to be good versions or alternate arrangements of the originals.

Been there done that. This is my first band doing covers since 1985.I've been in countless bands doing originals. I you do a survey of all the drunks that come see a cover band, how many of them would like you to do your own version of a song that was a major hit?Maybe if you're band is a major act Like I said, our goal was to sound like the originals. We are a multi tribute band, we desided that instead of being a VH tribute band or Journey, Queen etc, why not a multi tribute band? . This way we can please more people in the audience. We start with a 70's set, then the 2nd set we do 80's and then the 90's. One thing I'm not crazy about my band is that the other members wanted to dress like the 70's, then the 80's and 90's. I was voted out and I'm the leader! it's a democratic band so I had no choice! I guess it makes sense since we are basically a tribute band. Me and my singer thought that nobody is doing it as far as we know. We always have a good audience and we get an amazing response, so I guess we're doing something right.They even like the stupid outfits! Go figure!

 

[Bob Savage]

We always have a good audience and we get an amazing response, so I guess we're doing something right.They even like the stupid outfits! Go figure!

Sounds like fun. Do you guys only play the LA (Valencia) area or do you get down to OC on occasion too?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I support it where you need it for an instrument you don't have...like a piano or good keyboard player. I might go that route myself one day... you just hope you laptop doesn't crash.

Not sure how i feel about backing tracks for vocals. I know steel panther uses them on choruses on most shows.. it is pretty damn obvious. That said, they also are a parody so i am sure that is what they are going for. Michael Starr uses them for some of his high notes too on the more official live stuff. I think if used sparingly they can be useful...however it is true that we are slowly crossing the line into boy band territory when you rely on them because essentially so does Beiber and all those other pop stars to beef up music that really doesn't stand on it's own live..... OPDEN GANGNAM STYLE! (prime example)

 

[stratotone]

I think I'll see if I can just use my PC to gig with - I'll pay a local kid $50 to setup and tear down two powered speakers and a sub, and I'll 'perform' via webcam and backing tracks to a laptop that will be hooked up to one of the many bar TVs. I won't even have to leave the house!

 

[eljodon]

We always have a good audience and we get an amazing response, so I guess we're doing something right.They even like the stupid outfits! Go figure!

Sounds like fun. Do you guys only play the LA (Valencia) area or do you get down to OC on occasion too?

We haven't gone to OC.We took 2 month of and we're starting rehearsals again and learning new songs. We're learning Rock of Ages(def Lep) Kick Start My heart(Crue), Spoonman(Soundgarden), Black Dog(Zep) and Cherub Rock(Smashing P) We play anywere that can fit us.We played in Hollyweird, LAX are, Simi Valley, etc. If we get to OC I'll let you know.

 

[Enjolras56]

We always have a good audience and we get an amazing response, so I guess we're doing something right.They even like the stupid outfits! Go figure!

Sounds like fun. Do you guys only play the LA (Valencia) area or do you get down to OC on occasion too?

We haven't gone to OC.We took 2 month of and we're starting rehearsals again and learning new songs. We're learning Rock of Ages(def Lep) Kick Start My heart(Crue), Spoonman(Soundgarden), Black Dog(Zep) and Cherub Rock(Smashing P) We play anywere that can fit us.We played in Hollyweird, LAX are, Simi Valley, etc. If we get to OC I'll let you know.

Where do u guys play and what are you guys called? I'm in LA. Sounds like a fun show!

 

[eljodon]

We always have a good audience and we get an amazing response, so I guess we're doing something right.They even like the stupid outfits! Go figure!

Sounds like fun. Do you guys only play the LA (Valencia) area or do you get down to OC on occasion too?

We haven't gone to OC.We took 2 month of and we're starting rehearsals again and learning new songs. We're learning Rock of Ages(def Lep) Kick Start My heart(Crue), Spoonman(Soundgarden), Black Dog(Zep) and Cherub Rock(Smashing P) We play anywere that can fit us.We played in Hollyweird, LAX are, Simi Valley, etc. If we get to OC I'll let you know.

Where do u guys play and what are you guys called? I'm in LA. Sounds like a fun show!

The band is called Rock of Ages, but then the movie came out so there might be a confusion when prople come to see us an expect us to dance around like the musical.LOL We've been trying to get big festival gigs and we've done a few, but we'll be doing bars, it'll be awhile but I'll let you know, thanks!

 

[eljodon]

Nothin' wrong with backing tracks, as with almost everything, when used in moderation. Almost every live act I've seen in the last few years had some kind of backing tracks. Just playing devil's advocate, but if I were a non-musician and I go to see my favorite band and they can't drag a gaggle of singers for harmony\choir parts or a string quartet to cover string parts I'm going to be disappointed that it didn't sound like the album.

As a player, all you gotta do is watch eljodon's vids and know he's got chops (as does the whole band).

Thank you sir I appreciate it.We're lucky to have a great singer and if the guys that are against us wouldc it would come to see us they would see that our band has solid players and would really have a good time and appreciate what we're doing. Some of our videos were poorly edited. I think I explained it in another thread. We went to a pro video studio with a full blown ProTools rig and did 3 takes of each song so we can use the one with the best performance. The editor used takes form all the performances of each song and they don't match becasue our singer sings the songs a little different and some of the stuff doesn't match! We were pissed but it was done for free thanks to our manager so what can we do! Some are good but in a couple of them you see our singer singing and there's no vocal since the editor took the clip from another performance! Very frustrating. You can see them on you tube, but please don't laugh at our 80's stuff, cuz the band is all decked out with 80's outfits! LOL!

 

[eljodon]

But then is it live, or is it something else? Live performance is supposed to be just that, never used em in all the years I've been gigging. If you can perform all the parts as you say then why not just do that? Its fake and Kareoke band in my book. Key phrase in your OP is "live performance". It isnt really live performance if you play to prerecorded tracks now is it? Or just somewhat live? Or...? Where is the line on what is too much of it?

Dude, seriously. Nobody cares about your "book" or the performing nobility of your weekend cover band. Situations arise where the use of backing tracks is desirable or even necessary. Doesn't automatically mean the musicians are any less skilled.

First off how do you know what I do or bands I've been in? I don't give 2 shits if you don't care what I think about me or my opinion, some things in life are facts, and the fact is too much of what you hear in live bands today is canned and prerecorded and its cheating, period. And yes it has a lot to do with skill, sorry for the reality check but prerecoded tracks are just that, pre-recorded or canned,not being performed live. If nobody cares then why ask for opinions? I'm expressing my personal opinion. How do you know what kind of band I play in? I've opened for some pretty high level bands in my time (Queensryche, Allan Holdsworth, Kim Mitchell, Steve Morse band, Simon Townsend, etc etc) so maybe I'm just old school (most likely) and yes I do understand in some limited cases its neccessary (and I have used small sound effect samples triggered by the drummer in the past). BUT around here it does get seriously overused and to me (and again, to ME!) it gives a seriously unfair advantage to bands who wouldnt sound anywhere near as good without them. When 30-40% or more of what I'm hearing is canned and prerecorded (and I do give a lot of credit to the OP because he at least records his own backing tracks) it's bull shit, again, in my opinion. It must be nice to not have to really work out vocals harmonies and not have vocal rehearsals, pushing the limits of everyone in the band, singing hard parts while playing a hard part, fuck it, let the machine do it all. Or find creative ways thru effects or a harmonizer for your guitar or some other way to pull it all off. Minimal use is OK, but overused which seems to be the case these days at least around here is cheating anyway you look at it. The band is NOT performing all of what you are hearing. Why bother at all, lip synch it all and fake the guitar playing and you'll sound just like the record. I know I may be in the minority here but its how I feel. Sorry if it offends anyone but I feel the extensive use of this stuff as offensive when it makes a mediocre band sound really good with little to no real effort on their part, offensive as well when we work really hard and spend the time and effort to pull it all off without the use of bed or backing tracks. Again, just my opinion but on this topic it's a strong opinion. If I'm in competition with all of those other bands so how do you figure it doesnt give them an unfair advantage compared to a band playing/singing it all themselves? The audience doesnt know, so band A sounds better than band B to them but band A is using extensive backing tracks and isnt nearly the talent of band B yet they get credit for being a better band? It's like a lot of things these days, ok to cheat, ok to do "whatever it takes". Whatever, it won't change, bound to get worse but I like to think that all the hard work, rehearsals and years of playing live show to an audience and this dilutes the field and makes very mediocre bands sound far better than they really are. How can you not see that as deceptive and unfair to bands that do the work and/or have the talent and really great backing vocals etc because they are really that good or work at it that hard? Again, if you are in competition with these bands your opinions might be different. Or maybe we should just "join the club"? Sure would make my life easier but it just goes against the grain for me. Again, all my personal opinion and I do understand how others might feel differently depending on to what extent or how much you mix in the "band helper".

Comon RG955tt, come to the dark side, I'll help you get the gear together and join the talentless people club! I understand your frustration and I'm not offended at all. But I bet if your band would try it, it wouldn't be as easy as you think! I have to spend time doing all the stuff and I don't et to practice my guitar parts since the rest of the band doesn't know all the technical stuff. It took us 4 months to get it right, especially the drummer! You have your opinion and I respect it, but you should read my post more closesly, we all sing the parts and the extra tracks enhaces it. I'm doing a juggling act all night making sure everything works. We has nights were thing went south and we just did it without it and it sounded fine, just not sd full. We do Uprising by Muse and those guys are a 3 piece band but thet use tons of tracks and the guitar player uses a synth guitar. I don't have one so we use the Lap Top and our rhythm player plays the synth line. That's our last song of the night and the dance floor gets very crowded. I would like to see a video of your band it sounds like you guys are talented.

 

[bigdaddyd]

Like em or not, pro tools tracks (backing tracks) are a way of life with the big acts. So, what should it matter if local bands want to use them too. I would be very confident in saying that there are hardy ANY touring acts (national acts who get airplay, etc) who DON'T use them in some capacity. Some use them more than others (Shinedown and Sevendust come to mind). A friend of mine runs FOH for the major club in my area (it's a 1200 capacity place), and he'll tell you that every band who comes thru has some pro tools tracks used in their performance - most commonly as backing vocals or additional instrumentation).

Van Halen is a rare example these days - their keys are played live backstage, and they don't use extra tracks for anything.

Really? What about that "Jump" fiasco a little while back on I think the last tour? That wasn't backing track?

 

[dstroud]

Then there's also the idea that you could get the extra band members to not use tracks, but then you've got more potential scheduling conflicts (especially in L.A. where everybody's in at last 3 bands it seems), rehearsal time to get a guy worked in, and then time to audition and get another guy worked in when the 1st guy leaves - I'd rather be using tracks with just some core members and spend more time focusing on writing/recording/gigging - it just logistically makes more sense, to me.

 

[supersonic]

I have used them in the past, recorded keboard parts. At the end of the day I'd sooner go live. Just too much to worry about. I beleive it is cheating to an extent. Keep it as live as possible, besides you can do slightly different versions to compensate for missing parts.

 

[soc_monki]

im all for doing whatever. personally, i like doing everything with what i have. in one of my bands we covered songs that used keyboards. well, i was the one doing the parts, but on guitar. we were already a 5 piece, and sometimes our singer would mess around on keyboards (he had one and played pretty well). but it wasnt anything but messing around. ive known bands who use tracks, mostly just for the keyboard stuff and maybe some drum things (and bass as well, when they didnt have a bassist!) and i was fine with that. drummer always had headphones on so he could hear the click! other than their horrible rendition of NIN's Head Like a Hole (guess the guitarist just didnt figure out anything but the one part and just kept playing that...) it always worked. made the job of the keyboard girl easy, she hardly did anything except start the tracks, and maybe hit a note on her keytar once in a while! but people liked them.

just do what you do man. have fun with it. i respect that you set all that stuff up, but honestly, im lazy. buy amps, i have loads of channels, switches, knobs, pedals...and most of the time i just end up plugging straight in, find a tone, and use it. to hell with messing with things. i just want to play...

and as for most audiences pay no attention to anyone but the singer? yea, mostly true. which is why im glad im a guitarist. i dont want all that attention. LOL although i have had chicks come up to me and tell me they want to have my baby...so they dont ALL pay attention to the singer!