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timeroo
New member
Use whatever floats your boat but solid state doesn't beat or come close to matching tube tone, especially for modern metal. You can get away with using solid state on recording but live.... nope.
Bloodrock
Well-known member
timeroo":3706fcvt said:
Todays "modern" metal amps get their shitloads of gain from a series of cascaded 12ax7 tubes, which pretty much ruins all the actual tone benefits of having tubes to begin with.
I guess that's where the term "modern" tone comes from. Apparently it's taken the amp companies a couple decades to develop tube amp circuits that play, sound, and have the amount of gain as a solid state amp. That, and probably 90% of guys who play metal on a tube amps also have a SS pedal boosting the front of it.
lespaul6
Well-known member
Bloodrock":3qzi2blx said:timeroo":3qzi2blx said:
Todays "modern" metal amps get their shitloads of gain from a series of cascaded 12ax7 tubes, which pretty much ruins all the actual tone benefits of having tubes to begin with.
I guess that's where the term "modern" tone comes from. Apparently it's taken the amp companies a couple decades to develop tube amp circuits that play, sound, and have the amount of gain as a solid state amp. That, and probably 90% of guys who play metal on a tube amps also have a SS pedal boosting the front of it.
thank you
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Dingleberries
New member
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C1-ocaster
New member
Bloodrock":1rl2ybus said:timeroo":1rl2ybus said:
Todays "modern" metal amps get their shitloads of gain from a series of cascaded 12ax7 tubes, which pretty much ruins all the actual tone benefits of having tubes to begin with.
I guess that's where the term "modern" tone comes from. Apparently it's taken the amp companies a couple decades to develop tube amp circuits that play, sound, and have the amount of gain as a solid state amp. That, and probably 90% of guys who play metal on a tube amps also have a SS pedal boosting the front of it.
I must respectfully disagree about cascading pre tubes ruining the tone.
Here's a decent quick reference you can look at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overdrive_(music)
glassjaw7
Well-known member
I used to have a SS Peavey 212 combo that sounded pretty good. It didn't have the depth or dynamics of my toobs but it had that responsive feel.
Searching - have you tried any of the Fortin stuff? Seems like it would give you the best of both worlds.
Searching - have you tried any of the Fortin stuff? Seems like it would give you the best of both worlds.
headlessdeadguy
Well-known member
That's just a ridiculous statement. I gigged for years with my VH-140C and got tons of compliments. Recently saw Six Feet Under and Dying Fetus, Ola was playing a Fortin, John from DF was playing his VH-140C and DF's tone crushed SFU. Same with Sammy from Goatwhore, SS Randall. His tone crushes live.timeroo":n6aaf168 said:
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searching
New member
headlessdeadguy":1ab20icz said:
Agreed.
To the guy asking about the Theta. Its a beast with gain and power that will move your soul especially with the cab. Just cant afford the setup atm. Leads slice your face off and its very tight and quiet with built in decimator suppression. I think it actually has the most usable gain of any amp period. They also make the theta floorpedal now that has the preamp and decimator built in probably what ill have to settle with for a bit
RaceU4her
Well-known member
ive lost count how many times ive rolled in with my vh140c to a gig or the rehearsal space and people, most of whom had some pretty sweet big $$$ tube rigs, would laughingly ask why i play a "bass" head for guitar looking at me like im an idiot. the laughing would always turn into a confused puzzled look once i plugged in as they realized their sweet tube rig is getting smoked by a "bass" amp. it would get even more fun when they would ask what kind of tubes are in that thing and i would say "what tubes?" as they go around back to look. If you think just cause an amp is SS it cant cut it in a band you dont know what you are talking about
moltisanti
New member
when my band started playing out in 1999 the other guitarist and I both had Marshall VS100 heads and our sound as a band killed. They were super easy to dial in, very consistent, never broke, lightweight, worked seamlessly with my effects at the time and most importantly sounded clear, defined and left room for the bass to do it's part.
SS amps get a bad rep on the internet, but in reality it's all bullshit...go with what you prefer
SS amps get a bad rep on the internet, but in reality it's all bullshit...go with what you prefer
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Dingleberries
New member
This^^Check the Randall/Fortin Satan on YouTube, I'm gassin like a mofo for one, very tight and responsive.glassjaw7":2977l9dk said:
headlessdeadguy
Well-known member
RaceU4her":1rzecbrw said:
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searching
New member
glassjaw7":y0qtr8zx said:
No sir. Im subbed to ola thats about the exent of my Fortin knowledge.
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braintheory
Well-known member
Is the ISP Theta as tight as the Engls? Where did you guys get to try an ISP Theta? I've never seen them available anywhere. As far as high gain solid state amps go, I'm also really interested in the AMT Stonehead and the new Randall RG's, but again not available anywhere I know of.
Bloodrock
Well-known member
A buddy of mine had a Theta for a while. We never got any incredible tones out of that one. Especially for what it cost. Now the ISP sub-woofers on the other hand are fantastic! He's still got two of those. My Madison Prophecy paired with the 300w sub and a 4x12 was pure evil. 
But pretty much any high gainer you pair with one of those subs will peel paint off your walls. LOL
But pretty much any high gainer you pair with one of those subs will peel paint off your walls. LOL
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vm27
New member
That was an 8100.sytharnia1560":374holl0 said:
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searching
New member
braintheory":mp83loou said:
Never played an ENGL. A friend of a friend owns a Theta and the Vector cab i believe with active sub. It crushes and definitely has that SS tightness. Haven't had much time with it but it seemed to be right up my alley. I know you probably mean available as in available to demo but you can get the new RG's for as little as 299$ for the 100w pretty much anywhere. I'm thinking about trying one myself. There's 100/150/300w options for the new ones.
And here's a perfect example of what i mean by just being a bit burned out by the new flavor of the month tube head...Just noticed on FB the GW review of the new Fortin designed Randall Thrasher. Now, in all fairness this is Paul and he's not really a metal player and probably not the best example...Along with it being at low volume and not tuned low or boosted... But one of the big calling cards and trendis these heads being able to crush with just a cable and a head, right? Good sounding cleans but just underwhelming otherwise if you ask me and sounds just like many others that are far, FAR less expensive.
http://www.guitarworld.com/review-tweak ... asher-head
the4thlast1
Well-known member
Hey Searching if you havent tried an ENGL I think its time you do. Out of any tube amps out there the ENGLs def have a somewhat SolidState vibe to them. They have that super tight lowend , clarity and a somewhat processed\produced type of modern metal tone.
I have to say though what throws me off a little about everything you said in your original post is when you mention lead work sounding thin in a mix with a tube amp. I find leads to be fatter and cut through better with tubes, thats not to say a SS amp cant sound great for leads. In my experience what makes a big difference for leads is the speakers in your cab and the pickup thats in your guitar. Sometimes its hard to find a balance of tight modern rhythm with a thick lead tone on higher notes, its a tough balancing act that every element of your chain has to be considered.
For me having gone through countless boutique and non boutique tube amps as well as some solid state amps and full digital rack rigs I have found what works best for me in a live situation. I also try to find that balance of a thick solo tone while having a tight, clear modern rhythm tone. For me its the EVH 5153, Maxon 808, and Splawn 4x12 cab usually with greenbacks or a greenback type speaker....v30s work well for me also but greenbacks yield a thicker solo tone for sure , they have very meaty mids that thicken up higher notes and when you open them up at band volume the lowend is surprisingly very tight. They need volume though, most people dont care for them at low volumes for metal which I understand.
Now if you dont like the 5153 or would like another suggestion as far as tube amps go if you wanna give it another go I would say to try the ENGL Fireball 100 ... I have owned just about every ENGL model: SE, Invader, Powerball, Morse, Blackmore etc ... The Fireball 100 (Not the 60) Has to be the 100 watt version. That amp sounds great in a live mix.. Super tight modern thick metal rhythm with a Fat saturated liquid lead tone. Its a pretty killer amp and is one of the less expensive ENGLs and is my preference out of there entire line up... I mentioned it needs to be the 100watt version not because of the wattage but because they tweaked the circuit from the 60 and the eq curve on the 100 is much better IMO than the 60 watt version.
I have to say though what throws me off a little about everything you said in your original post is when you mention lead work sounding thin in a mix with a tube amp. I find leads to be fatter and cut through better with tubes, thats not to say a SS amp cant sound great for leads. In my experience what makes a big difference for leads is the speakers in your cab and the pickup thats in your guitar. Sometimes its hard to find a balance of tight modern rhythm with a thick lead tone on higher notes, its a tough balancing act that every element of your chain has to be considered.
For me having gone through countless boutique and non boutique tube amps as well as some solid state amps and full digital rack rigs I have found what works best for me in a live situation. I also try to find that balance of a thick solo tone while having a tight, clear modern rhythm tone. For me its the EVH 5153, Maxon 808, and Splawn 4x12 cab usually with greenbacks or a greenback type speaker....v30s work well for me also but greenbacks yield a thicker solo tone for sure , they have very meaty mids that thicken up higher notes and when you open them up at band volume the lowend is surprisingly very tight. They need volume though, most people dont care for them at low volumes for metal which I understand.
Now if you dont like the 5153 or would like another suggestion as far as tube amps go if you wanna give it another go I would say to try the ENGL Fireball 100 ... I have owned just about every ENGL model: SE, Invader, Powerball, Morse, Blackmore etc ... The Fireball 100 (Not the 60) Has to be the 100 watt version. That amp sounds great in a live mix.. Super tight modern thick metal rhythm with a Fat saturated liquid lead tone. Its a pretty killer amp and is one of the less expensive ENGLs and is my preference out of there entire line up... I mentioned it needs to be the 100watt version not because of the wattage but because they tweaked the circuit from the 60 and the eq curve on the 100 is much better IMO than the 60 watt version.
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searching
New member
^^^Thanks for the tips and suggestions!
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Anonymous
Guest
searching":1dsbclzf said:
dont shortchange the thrasher just because of paul dude...it's a BRUTAL amp. designed exculsively by mike fortin FOR metal and UBER low tuned Djent.
check out some of ola englund's vids on youtube with the thrasher...and his band feared.
BRU
TAL.
tubes DO have a weird feel to get used to, but that goes away after a while. u learn to "play" your amp and guitar together and it just starts to sound better to your ears once they acclimate to the rounder waveforms of tubes as opposed to the square waves of most solid state.
