Blackback Advice

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braintheory

Well-known member
So I’m considering giving blackbacks a shot and wanted to ask which version you guys like best? I didn’t actually like the way they sounded in the comparison clips I’ve heard of them vs other stuff, but I know a lot of guys here (including Larry) really love them, so wanna give them a chance. I also wonder if maybe they just weren’t played loud enough in the clips I heard since many say they need lots of volume to shine
 
That’s the key; volume. Didn’t matter which versions I tried( 2 cabs with 1221s; 1 with H30s) they all had that same quality. In fact I would go even further and say they sounded cardboardish at low volumes. A little better at medium volumes but I’d take the cheaper Chinese reissue over them all day..unless you crank them. My Pulsonics, 74 cream backs and the 90s 6402s shit all over BBs at any volume. BBs were easily the most disappointing speaker purchase ever for me. Plus, I kept at it thinking the first cab was shot etc. Nope. They all sounded that way.
Sam, with what you own already I wouldn’t waste your time.
 
Racerxrated said:
That’s the key; volume. Didn’t matter which versions I tried( 2 cabs with 1221s; 1 with H30s) they all had that same quality. In fact I would go even further and say they sounded cardboardish at low volumes. A little better at medium volumes but I’d take the cheaper Chinese reissue over them all day..unless you crank them. My Pulsonics, 74 cream backs and the 90s 6402s shit all over BBs at any volume. BBs were easily the most disappointing speaker purchase ever for me. Plus, I kept at it thinking the first cab was shot etc. Nope. They all sounded that way.
Sam, with what you own already I wouldn’t waste your time.
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Does that apply to both the 55 hz and 75 hz black backs?
 
thegame said:
Does that apply to both the 55 hz and 75 hz black backs?
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I had 2 cabs with 1221s which are the most common 75hz GBs and 1 with H30 55hz. Unless all 3 were just worn out in exactly the same manner; but that wouldn’t explain why they did sound good; only at ear bleed levels. I’ve had speakers that were worn out and they didn’t sound good anymore at any volume.
 
Was it johan who did a gb vs bb comparison for ACDC? They are in my JMP cab and it appears you really can’t do HTH without them. Other question, what’s driving them? Mine came w my 2203. I don’t get the chance to run them though my 1959, but how good/bad they sound prob has most to do with the amp driving them.
 
V-man said:
Was it johan who did a gb vs bb comparison for ACDC? They are in my JMP cab and it appears you really can’t do HTH without them. Other question, what’s driving them? Mine came w my 2203. I don’t get the chance to run them though my 1959, but how good/bad they sound prob has most to do with the amp driving them.
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I’ve had Marshalls here forever. I had a mint 1974 slant that was on the Marstran cab database, sounded phenomenal. I now have a 72 Slant with original Pulsonic 1221s. They are even better than the 74 cab. I’ve had many 6402 cone GBs, Chinese GBs and all of these have been used with Marshalls: Jubilees, Stock/modded 2203/4, and now a 1972 SuperTrem and a 67 Plexi 50w. When I tried those BBs it was with any number of Marshalls that I owned. Every speaker I mentioned sounded better with any/all of my Marshalls than those BBs. Only at huge volumes did the BBs sound good.
 
Racerxrated said:
I had 2 cabs with 1221s which are the most common 75hz GBs and 1 with H30 55hz. Unless all 3 were just worn out in exactly the same manner; but that wouldn’t explain why they did sound good; only at ear bleed levels. I’ve had speakers that were worn out and they didn’t sound good anymore at any volume.
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Oh, so the H magnet speakers were also made in black, grey, other color backs as well? Always thought blacks, greys, cream designations only pertained to the M magnet variety. On another note, have you tried the M black backs with 55 hz cone? I know a few who say that was the cream of the crop for black back era speakers.
 
thegame said:
Oh, so the H magnet speakers were also made in black, grey, other color backs as well? Always thought blacks, greys, cream designations only pertained to the M magnet variety. On another note, have you tried the M black backs with 55 hz cone? I know a few who say that was the cream of the crop for black back era speakers.
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I have not. Just the 75hzM, and 55H. The previous creambacks from 74-76 were RIC cones. Great speakers. I also had creambacks from 75 that were the 55hz T1511s. A little scooped but still great. The Blackbacks were the Kurt Mueller 1777 cones, both the M and H and had that same bleh quality to the until turned way up. The previous version RIC were killer at any volume.
 
I had some BB’s loaded in a mid 70’s Marshall 4x12 that I would drag to band rehearsals and I loved the way it sounded. Definitely a different flavor than the the greenbacks. The bass always seemed to be more solid with the H magnets.
 
Based on the clips and what I've heard about that it makes sense about Kurt Mueller cones. My Crescendo's (at least some of them) also have Kurt Mueller cones and have that similar-ish midrange I'm also hearing in the clips of blackbacks where it's smooth, laid back, kinda bland

I don't generally like the H magnet Celestions as much because of the hollow midrange, but seems like it's a pretty popular choice for Blackbacks
 
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I didn’t care for the 75hz BB’s but these 55hz / 444 cones are real good, in my opinion.
More full sounding and tighter bass than others, but I guess it’s all subjective.

One man’s ‘warmth’ is another man’s ‘dead’, one man’s ‘clarity’ is another man’s ‘shrill’😉

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I’ve got some 55hz H30’s. Took me a while to wrap my head around them but the trick really is pummelling them with volume. Once they’re making a racket they start sounding like what you’d expect, at lower/normal volumes they can be kind of scooped and stiff.
 
easstudios said:
I’ve got some 55hz H30’s. Took me a while to wrap my head around them but the trick really is pummelling them with volume. Once they’re making a racket they start sounding like what you’d expect, at lower/normal volumes they can be kind of scooped and stiff.
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This is my experience as well; although I’d describe the sound as ‘flat’
 
I have an original Marshall 1978 1960A cab with Blackback 75HZ 25 watt Celestions. At lower volumes the speaker sound wooly almost loose lowend and somewhat undefined not one of my favorite tones. Now at higher volumes like stage volumes they tighten up and do sound much better, it seems due to their efficiency rating of 98 DB they really need the push of higher volume to attain there best tone IMHO.

On the other hand I have a Marshall 1979 1982B Cab with original Celestion Blackback 75HZ 12H-30 speakers that I have owned since 1985. At lower volume these speakers are much more composed with a tight lowend and nice dynamics unlike the Blackback 25 watters. The 12H-30 have a sensistivity rating of 100DB making them more efficient at lower volumes and not needing to be pushed as hard as the Greenback/Blackback 25 watters need.

With all that being said I really enjoy my Celestion Heritage 12H-30 55HZ speakers just as much maybe more than my original blackback 12H-30 75HZ. I would love to get a hold of some original 1979 12h-30 55HZ to compare to my Heritages.

So I agree with Psychodave's assessment on the Blackback 12H-30 55HZ speakers.

Also there is alot of truth in Squarehead's statement One mans Warm is another man's 'dead', once mans clarity is another man's 'shrill'

You personally may love the Blackback 75HZ 25 watters but you will have to hear them first and you may hear the attributes we are describing or you may not. With that said I would seriously look into the Blackback 12H-30 55HZ. :yes:
 
I have a ‘71 cabinet with Pulsonic greenbacks and I do like it, but The one thing I don’t like is how green backs are not tight in the bass.
‘For me’, there is something about the 55Hz / 444 cones in these G12M black backs that just fills out the tone with better bass while also tightening the bottom end clarity.
It would be so much easier if we were all in a room with these cabinets, It would be like, “Yep that one’s good, not that one, it sucks, I like this one, that’s good with this amp, not with that one”… 😂👍
 
I came to the conclusion that this early Marshall vintage cab I own from 1988 sounds like G12-65s in the mids/highs, with the low end punch/tightness of a V30. You guys need to jump on one of these cabs if you find one. Mono input, JCM 800 logo with a 280w sticker on back.
 
Just skimming through, I'm seeing a few folks that say the 75hz BB are a bit lacking until you crank them. I would have to agree, at least from the lower volume perspective. Mine almost sound like there is a blanket thrown over them, when compared to my recent production UK greenbacks at similar volume. In fact, I was toying with the idea of getting rid of them, but maybe I just need to pour the coals to them first before I decide to do that. :ROFLMAO:
 
Wow, I’m surprised, most guys find those BB 75hz brighter than the pulsonics, at least that’s what I’ve been hearing…
 
I can only speak to the 55hz 25watters but they sound sound not great at low volume and really good once you get some volume through them. Super punchy and feel great under the fingers. Hard to explain but they have a great mix of AC/DC and Van Halen flavor to them.
 
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