BLIND TEST: Peavey 6505 vs Axe Fx III vs Helix (update: reveal posted!)

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DanTravis62 said:
*And the time/resolution of the snapshot/impulse response

But I don't care about these Andy sneap/emg/808/5150/v30/sm57 sounds, so go ahead and knock yourself out owning the tube amp purists, and chuckling to yourself in triumph as they incorrectly guess at the bland modern tones.
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All you're telling me here is that you're scientifically illiterate and don't understand what an experimental "control" is.

In the video, the impulse response simply represents an accounted-for variable. If the same real cab and mic had been used for both the models and the real amp, the video's showcase of the difference between the amps and models would have been just as miniscule as you're admitting they were in the video we just watched.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering either way. We are having two different conversations. I'm actually talking about what's relevant to the fun experiment that was conducted in the video and you're like an old man yelling at a cloud about how kids these days should try to sound "different" or some other non-sequitur that has nothing to do with anything.
 
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TheGreatGreen said:
All you're telling me here is that you're scientifically illiterate and don't understand what an experimental "control" is.

In the video, the impulse response simply represents an accounted-for variable. If a real cab had been used, the video's showcase of the difference between the amps and models would have been just as miniscule as you're admitting they were in the video we just watched.
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I very clearly know what it is, I just don't care.

Thanks for explaining the appeal of the video, it definitely makes sense that it's for gratifying smug senses of superiority, and why you enjoy it so much.
 
DanTravis62 said:
Because the various imperfections of micing a cab in a specific room in a specific way is like 70% of what makes guitar sounds distinct from one another.

The point I'm making is that these "modern metal" IRs like someone would use for a 5150/6505 all color the sound to such a vast extent, that who cares what is used in the preamp? As long as it's reasonably close to the original it's going to sound almost EXACTLY THE SAME.
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Most metal IR’s, or micing a cab in general flr metal, is almost always close micing with a single 57 or a 57 and something else. The room has very little to do with that sound, if any, considering how those mics are made. And no, I completely disagree with the statement about preamps: they matter tremendously, regardless if it’s an IR or a a real mic and cab, I’ve demonstrated this many times on clips with a good pre vs straight into the interface, it’s night and day difference, regardless the type of music.


On that note, I think all of this talk just reinforces the fact of how important the cab and mic is in a sound. If this were a mic and cab setup, the results would be no different: all very similar sounding.
 
VESmedic said:
Most metal IR’s, or micing a cab in general flr metal, is almost always close micing with a single 57 or a 57 and something else. The room has very little to do with that sound, if any, considering how those mics are made. And no, I completely disagree with the statement about preamps: they matter tremendously, regardless if it’s an IR or a a real mic and cab, I’ve demonstrated this many times on clips with a good pre vs straight into the interface, it’s night and day difference, regardless the type of music.


On that note, I think all of this talk just reinforces the fact of how important the cab and mic is in a sound. If this were a mic and cab setup, the results would be no different: all very similar sounding.
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Sigh. I'm not talking about the differences between tones in a scientifically controlled environment. I'm talking about these 5150/sneap tones all sounding the same, and being obnoxiously alike no matter who is using them, with no matter what setup - modeler/amp, IR/cab, etc. And they're so common it's exhausting.

If you guys want to go into full Asperger's induced pedantry about scientific controls and shit, feel free. It's just more bore for a boring tone.
 
DanTravis62 said:
Sigh. I'm not talking about the differences between tones in a scientifically controlled environment. I'm talking about these 5150/sneap tones all sounding the same, and being obnoxiously alike no matter who is using them, with no matter what setup - modeler/amp, IR/cab, etc. And they're so common it's exhausting.

If you guys want to go into full Asperger's induced pedantry about scientific controls and shit, feel free. It's just more bore for a boring tone.
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Oh…. Ok
 
I've said this a few times when Guitarjon has posted something and received negative feedback - just keep doing what you're doing my friend.

Those that get what you're doing, and why, seem to appreciate it. Those that don't can tune out, it's really that simple.
 
DanTravis62 said:
Sigh. I'm not talking about the differences between tones in a scientifically controlled environment. I'm talking about these 5150/sneap tones all sounding the same, and being obnoxiously alike no matter who is using them, with no matter what setup - modeler/amp, IR/cab, etc. And they're so common it's exhausting.

If you guys want to go into full Asperger's induced pedantry about scientific controls and shit, feel free. It's just more bore for a boring tone.
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That is incorrect. I like my jacket more than your jacket and that's all there is to it. My jacket looks better than your jacket AND it's more comfortable AND it's warmer in the winter.

See? I can barge into a thread and cram it up with wild statements out of the blue that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread whatsoever too. Nobody cares what you think about "5150/sneap" tones. At all. Also, the video is not about 5150 or "Sneap" tones. At all. The video happens to use a 5150 and 5150 models but it's about amp modeling in general and the 5150 was the amp that happens to have been chosen in this specific demonstration. Do you really need this to be explained to you?
 
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TheGreatGreen said:
You are mistaken. The cab is always the most influential thing about a high gain sound, whether reactive load and IRs or real cabs and mics, that's true for both instances. A reactive load and IR setup is not "more influential" to a rig's tone than than a real cab and mic. Both setups impart their specific load on the amps and the frequency response of the speakers. They are both equally influential to the rig's tone.

If anything, a reactive load and IR's are better for these kinds of comparisons because you lose the possibility of accidentally moving the mic placement and messing up the apples to apples aspect of the test.
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This!
 
B and C are pretty close.
Both sound nice. Guessing B may be the real amp here.

A does not sound like an amp to me at all.... I'd be very surprised if this was the real amp.
Was also my least preferred of the 3 easily.
 
Thanks for chiming in everybody! The results are VERY interesting this time and I was not expecting this tbh. The results will be revealed saturday so stay tuned for that. I'm leaving town for a few days so I can't finish the reveal until then. I also want to give people some more time to give their guesses before the reveal is out. It's just more fun that way! So keep the guesses coming! :)
 
Anyone complaining about IRs should just try a good cab simulator like Two Notes Wall of Sound which allows selecting multiple microphone types, distances and also you can have the speakers on near destruction if you want. It's all there. EQ, Exciter, Reverb, the lot. You can even have an overdriven cranked 100W playing through a 1x12 Greenback with a max load of 20W if you want. Do that in real life and watch speaker death. In Two Notes it lasts forever.

A, B and C are indistinguishable. You are literally just guessing.

My guesses

A - Helix
B - Real deal
C - Axe FX

That was guesswork. Helix sounding like an Axe FX is the moral of the story.

If anything I bet the hardest one to get the 6505 tone from is the actual amp itself, lol. Easier to do it in a modeler because you can fine-tune the bias.
 
dainbramage0 said:
Now c'mon guys, did you think rig talk was some kind of place to post audio clips and talk about guitar & amp tones or something?

All tones are the same and not worth talking about unless its a larry or wizard
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Next on Rig Talk, BLIND TONEWOOD TEST
 
I wasn’t a fan of any of the tones. That does make it harder IMO. A and C sound fake to me while B has more body but dull in the highs. To my ears modelers usually sound harsh in the highs. Especially when multi tracking. B is the real amp.
 
DanTravis62 said:
Those tiny differences in mic placement are what used to make different records sound different.

Now everything (with everyone using like 100% stock IRs) sounds like carbon copies of itself. If you're trying to sound like everything you've already heard before, I'm sure its very convenient to switch between sounds that everyone has already heard before.

But the stock 5150 IRs that everyone uses are so commonplace that you can identify modeler brand and which IR all the time if you actually listen to modern records
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I think I'm with you here about the IR's.. all the mix of mics, the cabs, all done for you. No finding your own sound. My favourite IR is the two I made of my legacy 65 watter. A 57 and then a 57/fathead.

Everyone should be encouraged to make their own IR's.. have a decent preamp and a cleanish solid state power amp? It isn't as much of a science as they would have you believe. I have A/B'd my IR setup and it was very close. One notable difference is sometimes the IR doesn't sound as full OR it can sound softer on the edges if that makes any sense. Nobody is ever going to know in a mix though and it feels satisfying that I am playing through my rig which I really liked.

Technology is awesome BUT it comes with a price. It is making all of us sound identical and uniform. As I mentioned in another thread, I feel like these differences in production and gear used are what went a long way in making music sound more dynamic back in the 80's and 90's. Since then it has all summarized into one type of sound. Listening to college radio and independent artists who write crappy music sometimes is more interesting to me because of the production aspect. Each song sounds different where as more modern music sounds very similar. I wonder if modern methods are sort of impacting creativity to be honest.
 
ZEN Amps said:
I've said this a few times when Guitarjon has posted something and received negative feedback - just keep doing what you're doing my friend.

Those that get what you're doing, and why, seem to appreciate it. Those that don't can tune out, it's really that simple.
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Regardless of what people think of IR's, guitarjon does fantastic videos. He's a good guy all around and I appreciate his content!
 
if i had to guess id guess B is the real amp but i really have no idea lol.
 
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