Boutique Killer.

[NinjaRaf]

Some of you guys are listing booteek gear!!

For me, 5150 212...still the best sounding amp Ive owned, including a d60 and a mak4. Im SUPER interested in the Randall RD45, though. Id love to see how that stacks up.

 

[dirtyfunkg]

So what's your piece of gear that's cheap and readily available that you feel does as good a job as the overpriced boutique gear the snobs hold up to such high esteem?

Let me preface this by saying you know I consider you a friend around these parts... and this is not just directed only at you - these comments come up all the time...

I gotta tell ya man. As a guy busting his ass building ultra high quality amps in small runs that I guess you could label as boutique, I really get tired of comments like this. If you knew what it costs me to build these amps in small runs, including custom head shells, custom, indestructible, powder coated and silk screened amp and footswitch chassis, custom waterjetted and painted faceplates, etc. etc. you wouldn't consider them "overpriced". In order to make a modest profit and pay for the parts and a lot of things that go even beyond the costs of the amps (advertising, etc.), I believe I charge a fair price. I think it's probably similar for most small batch builders, although I know some use "standard" parts (headshells, chassis, etc.) that allow them to sell their amps cheaper than mine...

I think it is fine for people to buy the cheaper mass produced amps that fit their budgets better and sound great as well. It's just that I don't think the folks willing to buy a small batch amp like mine are "snobs" buying an "overpriced" amp. If you view an amp as just a tool and are happy with a mass produced amp, that's great, but some people appreciate the workmanship and overall quality of a hand built amp like mine. Obviously, people buy my amps for the versatility and tones as well, but I'm sure it could be argued that there are cheaper amps that sound good enough given how subjective tone is anyway...

The mass produced amps are built by large companies that have the economies of scale to purchase large batches of parts, have cheap labor and therefore can charge much less than I can. Maybe I sell ten amps in a year, they sell thousands...

You can buy a nice Edwards Les Paul for around a grand. You can also pay ten grand for a painstaking re-creation of a '59 LP. Both are Les Pauls, both will do a fine job in the studio or on stage, but some people are willing to pay way more because they appreciate what goes into that instrument. Amps are no different...

I just see no reason to label things "overpriced" and the people buying them "snobs". Buy what makes you happy and don't judge other's purchases...

My 2 cents... and yes I'm taking this personally like a little baby...

Steve

Gotta say I agree with you on this. There are some things that are over priced but generally I'd say they're made by the big name manufacturers (Gibson, I'm looking at you!) where you pay more for the name than you do for the actual quality of product.

I'll go ahead and say that I have an aversion to buying new as a consumer simply because value immediately drops upon purchase. I own Fryette gear, but I'd never be able to afford it new and I suppose it is considered "boutique" by a reasonable standard. But I buy, use, and am loyal to this brand because the gear is great, and there's a commitment to quality on the part of the manufacturer. It's not overpriced for what it is, but at a new/list price, it's out of my budget. Simple as that. That said, the poor man's Deliverance is, IMHO, a VTM-60 or 120 which can be had for less than $350 on the used market. Is the difference in sound worth the extra $500-700? That is a totally subjective question. I'm honestly not so sure.

 

[Telephant]

So what's your piece of gear that's cheap and readily available that you feel does as good a job as the overpriced boutique gear the snobs hold up to such high esteem?

Let me preface this by saying you know I consider you a friend around these parts... and this is not just directed only at you - these comments come up all the time...

I gotta tell ya man. As a guy busting his ass building ultra high quality amps in small runs that I guess you could label as boutique, I really get tired of comments like this. If you knew what it costs me to build these amps in small runs, including custom head shells, custom, indestructible, powder coated and silk screened amp and footswitch chassis, custom waterjetted and painted faceplates, etc. etc. you wouldn't consider them "overpriced". In order to make a modest profit and pay for the parts and a lot of things that go even beyond the costs of the amps (advertising, etc.), I believe I charge a fair price. I think it's probably similar for most small batch builders, although I know some use "standard" parts (headshells, chassis, etc.) that allow them to sell their amps cheaper than mine...

I think it is fine for people to buy the cheaper mass produced amps that fit their budgets better and sound great as well. It's just that I don't think the folks willing to buy a small batch amp like mine are "snobs" buying an "overpriced" amp. If you view an amp as just a tool and are happy with a mass produced amp, that's great, but some people appreciate the workmanship and overall quality of a hand built amp like mine. Obviously, people buy my amps for the versatility and tones as well, but I'm sure it could be argued that there are cheaper amps that sound good enough given how subjective tone is anyway...

The mass produced amps are built by large companies that have the economies of scale to purchase large batches of parts, have cheap labor and therefore can charge much less than I can. Maybe I sell ten amps in a year, they sell thousands...

You can buy a nice Edwards Les Paul for around a grand. You can also pay ten grand for a painstaking re-creation of a '59 LP. Both are Les Pauls, both will do a fine job in the studio or on stage, but some people are willing to pay way more because they appreciate what goes into that instrument. Amps are no different...

I just see no reason to label things "overpriced" and the people buying them "snobs". Buy what makes you happy and don't judge other's purchases...

My 2 cents... and yes I'm taking this personally like a little baby...

Steve

I think the idea is more about HYPE and diminishing returns.

 

[glassjaw7]

My BB+ has kicked a LOT of overdrives off my board/collection. Standalone drive or boost, I just like it better than most of the cheaper stuff I've used. However, the $30 MXR Classic OD is just outstanding. It's right up there with my better overdrives including Lovep. Eternity, BB+ and a couple others. I sold my OCD when I got that cheap MXR

Ampwise, I've been playing a Hot Rod Deville lately and it just sounds outstanding for clean and light crunch tones. Maybe not better than the boutique stuff, but it holds its own.

 

[thiswaythatway]

So what's your piece of gear that's cheap and readily available that you feel does as good a job as the overpriced boutique gear the snobs hold up to such high esteem?

Let me preface this by saying you know I consider you a friend around these parts... and this is not just directed only at you - these comments come up all the time...

I gotta tell ya man. As a guy busting his ass building ultra high quality amps in small runs that I guess you could label as boutique, I really get tired of comments like this. If you knew what it costs me to build these amps in small runs, including custom head shells, custom, indestructible, powder coated and silk screened amp and footswitch chassis, custom waterjetted and painted faceplates, etc. etc. you wouldn't consider them "overpriced". In order to make a modest profit and pay for the parts and a lot of things that go even beyond the costs of the amps (advertising, etc.), I believe I charge a fair price. I think it's probably similar for most small batch builders, although I know some use "standard" parts (headshells, chassis, etc.) that allow them to sell their amps cheaper than mine...

I think it is fine for people to buy the cheaper mass produced amps that fit their budgets better and sound great as well. It's just that I don't think the folks willing to buy a small batch amp like mine are "snobs" buying an "overpriced" amp. If you view an amp as just a tool and are happy with a mass produced amp, that's great, but some people appreciate the workmanship and overall quality of a hand built amp like mine. Obviously, people buy my amps for the versatility and tones as well, but I'm sure it could be argued that there are cheaper amps that sound good enough given how subjective tone is anyway...

The mass produced amps are built by large companies that have the economies of scale to purchase large batches of parts, have cheap labor and therefore can charge much less than I can. Maybe I sell ten amps in a year, they sell thousands...

You can buy a nice Edwards Les Paul for around a grand. You can also pay ten grand for a painstaking re-creation of a '59 LP. Both are Les Pauls, both will do a fine job in the studio or on stage, but some people are willing to pay way more because they appreciate what goes into that instrument. Amps are no different...

I just see no reason to label things "overpriced" and the people buying them "snobs". Buy what makes you happy and don't judge other's purchases...

My 2 cents... and yes I'm taking this personally like a little baby...

Steve

I was thinking more along the lines of pedals since I was having fun with the Bad Monkey, and we all know there are plenty of high priced pedals out there that are just relabeled Tube Screamers and SD-1's. I guess I could have just stayed within my pedal experience. I have great respect for those like yourself that bust your ass making top notch gear, and with amps and guitars an investment in such gear goes a long way.

I guess relabeled, repackaged, overrpiced gear often gets exposed when inexpensive gear matches it in quality and tone.

 

[Schaf]

I like the SD-1 and it is super cheap. I like the bad monkey, too. But my 83 TS9 just has something a little extra that sounds just right. And, I'm not one to buy into the older is always better. But it's actually a Ibanez UE300. It has the TS9, a chorus ansd compressor. It even has ability for 4CM. How;s that for 1983? It bought in 85 for $75.

But te other piece that I really like is the Seymour Duncan Pickup booster. For straight clean boost it works as well or better than anything I've tried on my JCM800. i put it up against a ZVEX SHO and I kept the SD. They are only 30 or 40 bucks.

 

[rupe]

Reminds me of a "vintage snob" buddy of mine who got on my nerves with his constant cheerleading for the original TS-808. I finally decided to try it through my rig (Fender Tonemaster and a Strat) and although it sounded awesome, it also sounded very much like the Vox Valve-Tone (Chinese) pedal that I already had on my board. When I told him, he scoffed in disbelief so I challenged him to put his "expert" ears to the test. I'm sure you can guess the outcome...he couldn't tell them apart.

Indignantly, he said it had to be that the Tonemaster "homogenized" the sound and that a different amp would allow him to easily pick out the 808. A Matchless Chieftain, Matchless Lightning, Fender Deluxe Reverb, Vox AC30, and Marshall 35th Anniversary 1959 later and he still couldn't tell them apart.

For shits and giggles, I also duped him with an off-the-rack Boss Blues Driver to further discredit his highly tuned "vintage ears".

 

[SteveK]

So what's your piece of gear that's cheap and readily available that you feel does as good a job as the overpriced boutique gear the snobs hold up to such high esteem?

Let me preface this by saying you know I consider you a friend around these parts... and this is not just directed only at you - these comments come up all the time...

I gotta tell ya man. As a guy busting his ass building ultra high quality amps in small runs that I guess you could label as boutique, I really get tired of comments like this. If you knew what it costs me to build these amps in small runs, including custom head shells, custom, indestructible, powder coated and silk screened amp and footswitch chassis, custom waterjetted and painted faceplates, etc. etc. you wouldn't consider them "overpriced". In order to make a modest profit and pay for the parts and a lot of things that go even beyond the costs of the amps (advertising, etc.), I believe I charge a fair price. I think it's probably similar for most small batch builders, although I know some use "standard" parts (headshells, chassis, etc.) that allow them to sell their amps cheaper than mine...

I think it is fine for people to buy the cheaper mass produced amps that fit their budgets better and sound great as well. It's just that I don't think the folks willing to buy a small batch amp like mine are "snobs" buying an "overpriced" amp. If you view an amp as just a tool and are happy with a mass produced amp, that's great, but some people appreciate the workmanship and overall quality of a hand built amp like mine. Obviously, people buy my amps for the versatility and tones as well, but I'm sure it could be argued that there are cheaper amps that sound good enough given how subjective tone is anyway...

The mass produced amps are built by large companies that have the economies of scale to purchase large batches of parts, have cheap labor and therefore can charge much less than I can. Maybe I sell ten amps in a year, they sell thousands...

You can buy a nice Edwards Les Paul for around a grand. You can also pay ten grand for a painstaking re-creation of a '59 LP. Both are Les Pauls, both will do a fine job in the studio or on stage, but some people are willing to pay way more because they appreciate what goes into that instrument. Amps are no different...

I just see no reason to label things "overpriced" and the people buying them "snobs". Buy what makes you happy and don't judge other's purchases...

My 2 cents... and yes I'm taking this personally like a little baby...

Steve

I think the idea is more about HYPE and diminishing returns.

I think Steve has to keep in mind that SOME of the "higher end" stuff IS overpriced and can be matched or beat with a lower cost, yet good sounding piece of gear. I don't know Steve's stuff...but of COURSE he takes great pride and care in his stuff. There are other pieces of gear....um...not so much. Just made for $$$$ and not pride and accomplishment.

Don't take it too personally Steve. My Dad used to yell and beat us 5 kids when he couldn't figure out how who did what....we'd scream "But I didn't do it!". He'd say "if the shoe fits wear it!". He'd also say "Well I know I owe you for SOMETHING!" . Just keep doing what you do. I, like many others, enjoy finding a bargain piece that does exactly what I want it to do.

 

[SteveK]

Reminds me of a "vintage snob" buddy of mine who got on my nerves with his constant cheerleading for the original TS-808. I finally decided to try it through my rig (Fender Tonemaster and a Strat) and although it sounded awesome, it also sounded very much like the Vox Valve-Tone (Chinese) pedal that I already had on my board. When I told him, he scoffed in disbelief so I challenged him to put his "expert" ears to the test. I'm sure you can guess the outcome...he couldn't tell them apart.

Indignantly, he said it had to be that the Tonemaster "homogenized" the sound and that a different amp would allow him to easily pick out the 808. A Matchless Chieftain, Matchless Lightning, Fender Deluxe Reverb, Vox AC30, and Marshall 35th Anniversary 1959 later and he still couldn't tell them apart.

For shits and giggles, I also duped him with an off-the-rack Boss Blues Driver to further discredit his highly tuned "vintage ears".

You are a bad man rupe.

Sometimes, a thing just has to be done though right?

 

[Schaf]

Reminds me of a "vintage snob" buddy of mine who got on my nerves with his constant cheerleading for the original TS-808. I finally decided to try it through my rig (Fender Tonemaster and a Strat) and although it sounded awesome, it also sounded very much like the Vox Valve-Tone (Chinese) pedal that I already had on my board. When I told him, he scoffed in disbelief so I challenged him to put his "expert" ears to the test. I'm sure you can guess the outcome...he couldn't tell them apart.

Indignantly, he said it had to be that the Tonemaster "homogenized" the sound and that a different amp would allow him to easily pick out the 808. A Matchless Chieftain, Matchless Lightning, Fender Deluxe Reverb, Vox AC30, and Marshall 35th Anniversary 1959 later and he still couldn't tell them apart.

For shits and giggles, I also duped him with an off-the-rack Boss Blues Driver to further discredit his highly tuned "vintage ears".

You may be right. It's probably in my head. And honestly, I've hit sme hard times and am considering selling that box. I never use it anymore.

 

[jsp]

Pretty much all of my pedal board: NS-2, TU-2, GT-OD, Custom Comp, Flashback X4, CE-5, Kirk Hammett wah all do the job pretty well compared to much more expensive options for each.

 

[reverymike]

I have a 101b, SLO, and two vintage Marshalls. . .and right now, my 1992 Dual Recto Orange channel hi gain is KILLING them with an EP Booster in front. Sooooo freaking good.

 

[Sierra Voodoo]

From my personal experiences:

Fender Mexican HSS Strat
Guyatone MD-3 Micro Delay
Agile AL 3000 LP series guitars

 

[mojotone]

I have a 101b, SLO, and two vintage Marshalls. . .and right now, my 1992 Dual Recto Orange channel hi gain is KILLING them with an EP Booster in front. Sooooo freaking good.

Watch out, that 1992 Rectifier may soon be considered "vintage".

 

[daver101]

My American Standard Strat with Joe Bardens (neck, middle) and a JB Jr. in the bridge.....best superstrat I've got!

 

[Chubtone]

If you can afford it, more power to you buying whatever makes you happy. Just don't confuse your ability to purchase an instrument with your ability to play the instrument. Don't confuse owning an amp you heard a great player get great tone out of, with you having great tone through that amp. Don't argue with me how much better the construction of your guitar is and how great it feels and plays if you can't bend a note to the correct pitch on it.

And don't confuse that killer collection of gear with credibility to speak as an expert or hand out real world, playing advice. It does not make you the man. Being the man, makes you the man. Or so I have been told. How the heck would I know.

 

[rlord1974]

And don't confuse that killer collection of gear with credibility to speak as an expert or hand out real world, playing advice. It does not make you the man. Being the man, makes you the man. Or so I have been told. How the heck would I know.

 

[Stramm8]

5150 III Mini

^^This. And my $80 Sovtek 1x12 cab...

 

[Shark Diver]

My picks aren't boutique and they are just as good as the "overpriced" ones I have tried

 

[kasperjensen]

A while ago I played a Tokai LP Gold Top replica, and it was fantastic. It may just have been that one, but wow.