Brown Eye vs Bogners...today's experience

[bognerman]

Try a Shiva with el34's. I think that might be the sound that you are looking for. I will have that tight response, but still have the Bogner sag, not percussive at all.

Bogners IMO, just are not super tight amps.

I had a 2007 or 8 101b for a couple of years. I always felt as though it was like fighting the amp to get the deep, tight palm muting that I wanted out of it. My Cameron, VHTs, and Lickliter amp… no problems in that department. That's just the way they're made, I suppose. I've heard a few other forum members here say the same thing about that-lots of violin sustain, but too much sag for super brutal stuff.

I actually replaced the el34s with 6L6s. It made the clean channel nice, and did stiffen up the drive channels, but still not enough to not feel like I wasn't fighting with it. I was super bummed, 'cause the amp did everything else REALLY well.

Fortunately, (or unfortunately ) I am not looking for a super brutal tight metal amp for fast palm mutes.
I prefer a little bit of sag and bloom.

I found the 100b reacted fairly similarly to my friend's pitbull 100CL when he brought it over. The 101b definitely softer!

 

[bognerman]

Also, if you tried replacing two of the v30s with g12h30s, you might get a nice tonal quality that is a bit more hi-fi than the v30's.

This is what I was going to say..For me, straight V30s are always a little too dry and grainy and can be harsh with some amps. Love/hate speaker for me. I like them mixed with H30s, Greenbacks, c90s etc.

c90s? I'm definitely thinking on those lines though, new speakers-- including getting a cab of all greenbacks.

What about Scumbacks, are they less gritty? I have had v30s for so long with the bogner stuff I
don't even know the difference with the other speakers other than the "clips" online.
(and there are so many variables with how they record that stuff)
The lynchbacks I saw in one video shootout sounded great, but I don't know if it's easy
to wire them for a full 4x12.

 

[GuitarGuyLP]

Speakers can make all the difference in the world. I used to really like v30s because that was what I was used to. I had about two years where I didn't have any v30s, and now when I try them I just can't stand them. Right now for me H30s, and jensen electric lightning are where it's at.

 

[moronmountain]

Try a Shiva with el34's. I think that might be the sound that you are looking for. I will have that tight response, but still have the Bogner sag, not percussive at all.

Um KT88's are much tighter than EL34's. Bogners IMO, (only played Shiva and Uber though) just are not super tight amps. I have a Twin Jet otw, and I'm guessing/hearing that it's tighter than the regular Uber. To the OP........ What brand of 88's did the Shiva have?

I'll check today--they're whatever is stock from Bogner.

I do hear even with the KT88s in it that the amp has a "bit" of sag. When you strike a chord (with gain) it's not as level as the Friedman.

FWIW, you have to get KT88's pretty friggin' loud to get them to sag. Sometimes what you are hearing is the phase inverter tube making the power section get some sag.

 

[bognerman]

try 20th el34 xtc...tighter and less grainy than 101b, still has some sag though...confused me with BE100 doing metallica, not scooped for that IMO....VH yes, Metallica no

Would LOVE to try one...I would have to fly to LA or something though...not so many dealers here, and they usually carry more
jazzy stuff if they do carry bogner. I haven't seen an Uberschall in years, and rarely an xtc. They'll get shiva combos and goldfinger combos
If it's like half way between the 101b and 100b it sounds like it would be perfect for me.

I was definitely able to do metallica with the BE Maybe not as scooped as some of their stuff, but the tightness and bottom was in there.
This was with a guitar with ceramic pickup though.

 

[Ventura]

FWIW, you have to get KT88's pretty friggin' loud to get them to sag. Sometimes what you are hearing is the phase inverter tube making the power section get some sag.

Bang on.

And FWIW, KT88s are FAR from pleasant when they start breaking up. It's not a good thing. Fortunately they come with such a high ceiling that break-up isn't easily attained in most of the amps they come spec'd with.

 

[IntenseJim]

.

Friedman Brown Eye - may be too metal for me! It made me want to play Metallica

 

[bognerman]

So do you own any of these amps, or did you just get to play them for a few hours?

I've gigged a lot with the 100b and 101b. The shiva is newer and I've only used at rehearsals.
The BE is new and I've played it at 2 rehearsals I think. I have a fish that needs a power amp.
Totally overkill, I know. It's time to scale down.

I have 2 bogner cabs with v30's, and a Friedman cab on order, but I need to pick speakers for it!
I think Rob was recommending greenback/v30 mix, all creambacks, or a scumback mix.
Hard to decide without hearing it.

 

[garey77]

Blue Note Music on Telegraph in Berkeley is a Bogner dealer. That's where I got mine.

 

[bognerman]

.

Friedman Brown Eye - may be too metal for me! It made me want to play Metallica

LOL --it really may be the combination of my heavy guitar with duncan distortion and the V30's. LOL

My stock les paul was much more forgiving. My guess is that alnico pickups are much better matched to the friedman.
I dialed in my other guitar for the bogners & V30's.

 

[bognerman]

Blue Note Music on Telegraph in Berkeley is a Bogner dealer. That's where I got mine.

Will totally check them out... I think I went there once years ago (maybe before they carried bogner?)
They had some nice les pauls as I recall.

 

[bognerman]

Speakers can make all the difference in the world. I used to really like v30s because that was what I was used to. I had about two years where I didn't have any v30s, and now when I try them I just can't stand them. Right now for me H30s, and jensen electric lightning are where it's at.

It's just "what" speakers...too many options. <sigh> Haven't heard of the jenson electric lightning, will read up on them.

 

[7 Stringer]

try 20th el34 xtc...tighter and less grainy than 101b, still has some sag though...confused me with BE100 doing metallica, not scooped for that IMO....VH yes, Metallica no

Master and beyond no but Ride the lightning and Kill`em all is all in the BE. With an EQ in the loop it`s the perfect modded Marshall for old thrash tones!!!!!!!!

I own a BE and it gets those tones.

Chris

 

[skoora]

In demoing a 101B I found if I got the presence up quite high and didn't have a loose excursion setting I could rip out tight metal with no problems. In fact I jammed a fair bit of Kill 'em All on it and thought it sounded pretty damn good. If the presence wasn't high you definitely got all the typical "softer", "chewy" tones out of it. Personally I've never liked vintage 30's. The only amp I've heard sound good through them is several newer Orange's but they are designed with that speaker in mind.

 

[yngzaklynch]

I'm playing my 101b through a Marshal 4x12 with greenbacks. Love the tones i'm getting. Metal is no problem
https://youtu.be/KmP0AtYzVgE

 

[moronmountain]

So do you own any of these amps, or did you just get to play them for a few hours?

I've gigged a lot with the 100b and 101b. The shiva is newer and I've only used at rehearsals.
The BE is new and I've played it at 2 rehearsals I think. I have a fish that needs a power amp.
Totally overkill, I know. It's time to scale down.

I have 2 bogner cabs with v30's, and a Friedman cab on order, but I need to pick speakers for it!
I think Rob was recommending greenback/v30 mix, all creambacks, or a scumback mix.
Hard to decide without hearing it.

Well with all those choices, and you still searching for that missing something, I think it's time to change your name to "Fryetteman," and join the dark side!

 

[jnurp]

el34 Bogner Shiva does NOT have a tight response at all, not even close.

 

[WizardSouth-JP]

if you're married to Bogner tones but want tight huge low end you'll need an Uberschall. None of his amps do that big tight bottom but still squish and thud at same time. You may wanna try a Wizard Modern Classic - was way more organic and open but with huge tight low end. Or bang for buck a Mesa Triple Rec MultiWatt kills bor huge tight low end, just need to keep gain at noon or less and flat eq.

 

[moronmountain]

So I gotta ask. What kind of tunes do you play? Mostly covers, originals, or both, or???? If covers, what bands/songs do you cover? If originals, what 3 bands would you compare your style to? I think possibly the thing that you like about Bogners, is the same thing that makes them not have a tight bottom end. I love Uberschalls myself, and though they may be tighter than other models, to me even they aren't super tight. Heck I don't consider Rectos to be very tight either. JMO of course.

 

[Mizati20]

if you're married to Bogner tones but want tight huge low end you'll need an Uberschall. None of his amps do that big tight bottom but still squish and thud at same time. You may wanna try a Wizard Modern Classic - was way more organic and open but with huge tight low end. Or bang for buck a Mesa Triple Rec MultiWatt kills bor huge tight low end, just need to keep gain at noon or less and flat eq.

Uberschall and Rectos are the furthest thing from "tight" from my extensive experience

...huge yes... tight though?...not so much...