Brown Eye vs Bogners...today's experience

[bognerman]

Well, got to crank up 4 today for hours.....

Bogner 101b - if only it were less chaotic/confused/grainy in the mids. I liked the squish it has though, fun to play, and a great overall EQ.

Shiva 20th KT88 - Good, but maybe not enough bottom, and too "toppy" (the KT88s?) I'm guessing EL34's would be better.

Friedman Brown Eye - may be too metal for me! It made me want to play Metallica It's a tight amp, but the note attack isn't as tight as the 100b. Van Halenish tones are on tap. Maybe reminds me a tad of the VH4 3rd channel but not as compressed. Huge amounts of tight bottom end.

Bogner 100b - "meaner" sounding than the Friedman or other bogners, and more aggressive than the 101b or shiva. Doesn't have as wide of a frequency spread as the Friedman has, but has focused low mids/bass and sizzly top. A bit more forgiving than the Friedman, but definitely stiffer than the other Bogners.

Current thought---none are probably perfect for me .... or (please chime in) could it all be the Cabs that are bugging me? Bogner 4x12 with V30s.

Are there any amps that are like a less grainy version of the 101b?

 

[andiggity]

Try a Shiva with el34's. I think that might be the sound that you are looking for. I will have that tight response, but still have the Bogner sag, not percussive at all.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

Try a Shiva with el34's. I think that might be the sound that you are looking for. I will have that tight response, but still have the Bogner sag, not percussive at all.

Wut

 

[moronmountain]

Try a Shiva with el34's. I think that might be the sound that you are looking for. I will have that tight response, but still have the Bogner sag, not percussive at all.

Um KT88's are much tighter than EL34's. Bogners IMO, (only played Shiva and Uber though) just are not super tight amps. I have a Twin Jet otw, and I'm guessing/hearing that it's tighter than the regular Uber. To the OP........ What brand of 88's did the Shiva have?

 

[garey77]

Also, if you tried replacing two of the v30s with g12h30s, you might get a nice tonal quality that is a bit more hi-fi than the v30's.

 

[garey77]

Try a Shiva with el34's. I think that might be the sound that you are looking for. I will have that tight response, but still have the Bogner sag, not percussive at all.

Bogners IMO, just are not super tight amps.

I had a 2007 or 8 101b for a couple of years. I always felt as though it was like fighting the amp to get the deep, tight palm muting that I wanted out of it. My Cameron, VHTs, and Lickliter amp… no problems in that department. That's just the way they're made, I suppose. I've heard a few other forum members here say the same thing about that-lots of violin sustain, but too much sag for super brutal stuff.

I actually replaced the el34s with 6L6s. It made the clean channel nice, and did stiffen up the drive channels, but still not enough to not feel like I wasn't fighting with it. I was super bummed, 'cause the amp did everything else REALLY well.

 

[moronmountain]

Try a Shiva with el34's. I think that might be the sound that you are looking for. I will have that tight response, but still have the Bogner sag, not percussive at all.

Bogners IMO, just are not super tight amps.

I had a 2007 or 8 101b for a couple of years. I always felt as though it was like fighting the amp to get the deep, tight palm muting that I wanted out of it. My Cameron, VHTs, and Lickliter amp… no problems in that department. That's just the way they're made, I suppose. I've heard a few other forum members here say the same thing about that-lots of violin sustain, but too much sag for super brutal stuff.

I actually replaced the el34s with 6L6s. It made the clean channel nice, and did stiffen up the drive channels, but still not enough to not feel like I wasn't fighting with it. I was super bummed, 'cause the amp did everything else REALLY well.

Yeah I like Bogners for other things besides being super tight amps. I'm thinking my TJ will be tighter than my Rev. 1 Uber was, but I don't REALLY care if it's not. I have my Ultralead for the supahtite.....

 

[Ventura]

TJ's tightest and dry out of the lot, and definitely offers up the goods for the palm muted chugga style of play. It's still has thunderous lowend, is defined, but has a little bit of the chewy saggy goodness in it.

KT88s that come stock in the TJ and the Shiva 20thA are Sovteks, with a ful complement of Chinese 12AX7B preamps. Bogners used to ship with LPS preamps, but my guess is that got a bit too costly, so they went with the Chinese instead. That said, the Chinese are great pres for low noise, high gain, consistency and cost.

My 2 cents. I'm still working with my newly acquired 20thA Shiva loaded with KT88s. Not ready to give any update yet. But I will once I put it through its paces

 

[moronmountain]

TJ's tightest and dry out of the lot, and definitely offers up the goods for the palm muted chugga style of play. It's still has thunderous lowend, is defined, but has a little bit of the chewy saggy goodness in it.

KT88s that come stock in the TJ and the Shiva 20thA are Sovteks, with a ful complement of Chinese 12AX7B preamps. Bogners used to ship with LPS preamps, but my guess is that got a bit too costly, so they went with the Chinese instead. That said, the Chinese are great pres for low noise, high gain, consistency and cost.

My 2 cents. I'm still working with my newly acquired 20thA Shiva loaded with KT88s. Not ready to give any update yet. But I will once I put it through its paces

Yeah and Sovtek KT88's are pretty stinkin' clear top to bottom. I tried JJ's in my Ultralead before, and I went back to Sovteks actually. I totally love Chinest 12ax7b's as well. =D

 

[glassjaw7]

Also, if you tried replacing two of the v30s with g12h30s, you might get a nice tonal quality that is a bit more hi-fi than the v30's.

This is what I was going to say..For me, straight V30s are always a little too dry and grainy and can be harsh with some amps. Love/hate speaker for me. I like them mixed with H30s, Greenbacks, c90s etc.

 

[RG955TT]

try 20th el34 xtc...tighter and less grainy than 101b, still has some sag though...confused me with BE100 doing metallica, not scooped for that IMO....VH yes, Metallica no

 

[jharpersj]

Try a carol Ann triptik!

 

[moronmountain]

Well, got to crank up 4 today for hours.....

Bogner 101b - if only it were less chaotic/confused/grainy in the mids. I liked the squish it has though, fun to play, and a great overall EQ.

Shiva 20th KT88 - Good, but maybe not enough bottom, and too "toppy" (the KT88s?) I'm guessing EL34's would be better.

Friedman Brown Eye - may be too metal for me! It made me want to play Metallica It's a tight amp, but the note attack isn't as tight as the 100b. Van Halenish tones are on tap. Maybe reminds me a tad of the VH4 3rd channel but not as compressed. Huge amounts of tight bottom end.

Bogner 100b - "meaner" sounding than the Friedman or other bogners, and more aggressive than the 101b or shiva. Doesn't have as wide of a frequency spread as the Friedman has, but has focused low mids/bass and sizzly top. A bit more forgiving than the Friedman, but definitely stiffer than the other Bogners.

Current thought---none are probably perfect for me .... or (please chime in) could it all be the Cabs that are bugging me? Bogner 4x12 with V30s.

Are there any amps that are like a less grainy version of the 101b?

So do you own any of these amps, or did you just get to play them for a few hours?

 

[supersonic]

A couple of things here, I own a Marsha and 100B. I don't like v30s' with either I prefer GB 25s'. I have played them both extensively and find the attack is sharper on the Marsha.

 

[Ventura]

Yeah and Sovtek KT88's are pretty stinkin' clear top to bottom. I tried JJ's in my Ultralead before, and I went back to Sovteks actually. I totally love Chinest 12ax7b's as well. =D

Sovteks come in the Fryette 2/90/2 as well, and Steve Fryette is a pretty particular kinda guy.

A couple of things here, I own a Marsha and 100B. I don't like v30s' with either I prefer GB 25s'. I have played them both extensively and find the attack is sharper on the Marsha.

I think it's nice to read others steering away from V30s. I mean, they're the most common drivers out there, but there's also a bunch of other options out there with totally different things to offer. Some of which are, dare I say, "better".

 

[bognerman]

Try a Shiva with el34's. I think that might be the sound that you are looking for. I will have that tight response, but still have the Bogner sag, not percussive at all.

I'm very close to bringing the Shiva in to convert to el34s! From what I've read, he'll need to clip
a resister or two and rebias.

 

[bognerman]

Try a Shiva with el34's. I think that might be the sound that you are looking for. I will have that tight response, but still have the Bogner sag, not percussive at all.

Wut

LOL--yah, maybe "tight response" plus "Bogner sag, not percussive at all" go against each other?
I'm guessing this means faster note attack compared to the 101b, but still with note bloom afterwards.

 

[moronmountain]

Try a Shiva with el34's. I think that might be the sound that you are looking for. I will have that tight response, but still have the Bogner sag, not percussive at all.

I'm very close to bringing the Shiva in to convert to el34s! From what I've read, he'll need to clip
a resister or two and rebias.

FWIW, if you don't think it has enough bottom with KT88's, you really will feel that way if you go to 34's. JMO

 

[bognerman]

Try a Shiva with el34's. I think that might be the sound that you are looking for. I will have that tight response, but still have the Bogner sag, not percussive at all.

Um KT88's are much tighter than EL34's. Bogners IMO, (only played Shiva and Uber though) just are not super tight amps. I have a Twin Jet otw, and I'm guessing/hearing that it's tighter than the regular Uber. To the OP........ What brand of 88's did the Shiva have?

I'll check today--they're whatever is stock from Bogner.

I do hear even with the KT88s in it that the amp has a "bit" of sag. When you strike a chord (with gain) it's not as level as the Friedman.

 

[bognerman]

Also, if you tried replacing two of the v30s with g12h30s, you might get a nice tonal quality that is a bit more hi-fi than the v30's.

Yep--expecting to walk down this path of speaker buying LOL
g12h30s, scumbacks, greenbacks, HP creambacks, ugh...